New day, new challenge

[bluehen95]

Hi,

Some of you may remember me, the one with the thing for the domestic help, and thanks for all of your comments. In case you care, this situation is light years better than it was. As I had mentioned, all of it unfolded so quickly it was hard to comprehend day-to-day what I was feeling, but those feelings were strong. I got to a pretty scary place, and my emotions kept evolving. I finally just stopped trying to figure out “what this all means”, and instead take it as “it is what it is”. Which is a strong bond with a woman I have a lot of affection for, and a very good friendship, none of which would exist in any different context at all. So I stopped trying to “think it beyond context”, and accept that this person is here, she makes me feel certain things emotionally, and they are positive things. You have a lot of relationships in life in which you share meaning with other people, and while you cannot control what you feel, it occurs within a context that is a critical contributor to those feelings. My relationship with my wife has had its ups-and-downs, certainly, but I love her deeply, and she is the one person who will never just be “in and out of my life”. We are committed to finding the “ups” again. And everything is on the table, with everyone else. There are no hidden feelings, questions, etc.

My wife and I are in a much better place now, and it will require that we keep working at it. Things still come up, but instead of harboring resentments we confront them and talk them out. I am no longer frightened and confused. She still feels envy, I’m sure, that she is not home and I am with our kids, but the other dynamic of this relationship is much less of a problem (in many ways, it is very positive, which is why she is still with us).

Here’s the issue. As I may have mentioned, a by-product of this experience has been that I have re-connected with my faith and the Church. I always needed it to just be “accessible”, i.e., I needed to see how it would be practically applicable, I suppose, and address some outstanding questions about Church teachings and how they meshed with my values. I got what I needed from my friend, by seeing how she integrated her faith and by talking certain things through. Unfortunately I was somewhat selfish in this regard, and I did not involve my wife until late in my thought process. It is difficult since my wife was not raised in any religion, and as a Catholic I think you share a unique connection to other “cradle Catholics” who not only know but feel the familiarity and power of the traditions. You can talk about things that non-Catholics will not understand.

Simply put, my wife does not understand how I got here…or, more accurately, she does not understand where “here” is and how it reflects “me”. I have made a conscious effort not to “throw it in her face”. But she tells me she feels (a) judged, (b) left out by definition because she didn’t grow up that way, and (c) somewhat resentful of religion in general because she is afraid it will turn me into a “freak” (there is a back story to this with one of her best friends). I keep telling her I’m at the beginning of this journey, and I want her to come with me. Every night I offer to read the day’s readings out loud (she sometimes will listen, others not, but does not really want to discuss anything about them), and extend the invitation one time each week, without pressure, to come to church with me (not yet). Because this is so sensitive to her, I have not even broached the conversation about the twins, who I would like to raise Catholic (actually, we promised to do so).

Is this just going to take time? Am I doing the right things, recognizing that I didn’t do it quite right to begin with? I would love suggestions, because this is the one big thing that is still a huge challenge now and going forward, and it’s very important to me.

Thanks!

 

[HouseArrest]

I do not, nor do I know anybody, who in daily living separates Catholics into “Cradle Catholics” and “Converts” or “Reverts” for the purpose of deciding who can talk to who, or who has a better connection to who. We are all Catholics. It is quite possible for a new convert to “pass me up”, so to say, in spirituality.

I suggest you cease discussing who is “ahead” in their faith. That would be a great start.

And I still think you should fire the nanny.

 

[pensmama87]

I do not, nor do I know anybody, who in daily living separates Catholics into “Cradle Catholics” and “Converts” or “Reverts” for the purpose of deciding who can talk to who, or who has a better connection to who. We are all Catholics. It is quite possible for a new convert to “pass me up”, so to say, in spirituality.

I suggest you cease discussing who is “ahead” in their faith. That would be a great start.

And I still think you should fire the nanny.

 

[maryjk]

I do not, nor do I know anybody, who in daily living separates Catholics into “Cradle Catholics” and “Converts” or “Reverts” for the purpose of deciding who can talk to who, or who has a better connection to who. We are all Catholics. It is quite possible for a new convert to “pass me up”, so to say, in spirituality.

**I suggest you cease discussing who is “ahead” in their faith. That would be a great start.

And I still think you should fire the nanny.**

Yep.

 

[bluehen95]

I do NOT discuss “who is ahead in their faith”, I don’t care. I am saying that SHE feels like it’s something she is “behind” in…or more accurately, it’s her “integration” she’s behind in. Part of what I was asking for was help in overcoming that. It should not be an issue but I do see from her perspective why she might feel that way. Growing up Catholic, there are a lot of things that are engrained. It does not make you a BETTER Catholic, just one who has been exposed to the faith primarily through tradition. Actually the other way has a lot of benefits, since a lot of us who grew up Catholic simply had words drilled into our heads and we just said them without thinking about them.

So please don’t judge me for establishing some sort of “hierarchy of faith”, that’s not what I’m doing. I’m trying to overcome one person’s perception that she’s irrecoverably “behind” since she wasn’t brought up Catholic, let alone any religion at all.

As to your other point, thanks, your opinion will be filed away and you can say “I told you so” later on in life, maybe. Every situation is different and you can only form your opinions on what I tell you, I get that, so that is fine. But we’re moving on with her still as part of our lives.

 

[maryjk]

I did lots of snipping. Rather than to quote your entire post.

It is difficult since my wife was not raised in any religion,

But if you were away, and not living your faith, you are in the same boat. I know, I have been there.

and as a Catholic I think you share a unique connection to other “cradle Catholics” who not only know but feel the familiarity and power of the traditions. You can talk about things that non-Catholics will not understand.

Maybe. But most likely not. I don’t have more things in common with cradle Catholics. In fact, most of my Catholic friends are converts or like me, a revert.

I have made a conscious effort not to “throw it in her face”. But she tells me she feels (a) judged, (b) left out by definition because she didn’t grow up that way, and (c) somewhat resentful of religion in general because she is afraid it will turn me into a “freak” (there is a back story to this with one of her best friends).

You may not think you are throwing it into her face. But every poster here felt you were. So there may be something to her feelings, don’t you think??

Every night I offer to read the day’s readings out loud (she sometimes will listen, others not, but does not really want to discuss anything about them),

I am a cradle Catholic and I don’t read the daily readings every day. Nor am I interested in discussing them.

When you revert or convert, your journey is your own. Now, you might have company on your journey, but it is yours alone. The daily reading is part of your journey. Maybe private prayer will be hers (If she decides to take this journey.)

And it probably doesn’t help for you to tell her that your nanny’s faith is what had brought you on your journey.

 

[agnes_therese]

And it probably doesn’t help for you to tell her that your nanny’s faith is what had brought you on your journey.

Oh, absolutely!!

 

[Lorelei12]

I remember your other thread, and I am glad that things are getting better with your wife. It is also wonderful that you are trying to grow in your faith.

However, I agree with the posters who pointed out that knowing the nanny’s faith is what got you here isn’t really going to help the situation. If you want to share your faith with your wife, how does she know that you’re not just so enamored that you are trying to impress her (the nanny)? Maybe you’re not, but if the nanny’s still around, and your wife knows your feelings for her, can you really blame her for not being too interested?

Also, if the nanny is aware of your feelings for her as you say she is and continues to stay working for you, I’d suggest that maybe she isn’t as good of a person as you think she is. Anyone who cared about doing the right thing and someone’s marriage in general would remove herself from the situation. Maybe her faith inspired you, and that’s great. But if you truly want your wife to be open to joining you in attending Mass and raising your kids Catholic, she is going to need to see that this is coming from you and not your misguided attraction. The only way to convince her of that is to find another nanny, so that she knows you’re serious.

 

[bluehen95]

Right, so, yes…recognized that the nanny’s role in my returning made this somewhat more complex. We are past that, however. This is less an issue of how I got here at this point, more what it means now that I am “here”. My wife is concerned about “what this will do to me”, i.e., for lack of a better term, does this mean that I’m going to become a “Jesus freak”. At the end of the day, I think this will just take time and I will have to demonstrate what it means through my actions and attitudes. And I recognize she may never arrive at the same place, which is okay. I was just looking perhaps for some thoughts on how to communicate this journey from here forward, and hopefully help her become more comfortable with it.

Really, I understand your impressions regarding the continued presence of the nanny. I’m here, you’re not, and I am fully awake to how things have evolved. Not going anywhere, not a decision I made alone. It is what it is, so please don’t continue to waste your breath telling me I should let her go. That ship has sailed and we are in a good place with that.

 

[pensmama87]

Right, so, yes…recognized that the nanny’s role in my returning made this somewhat more complex. We are past that, however. This is less an issue of how I got here at this point, more what it means now that I am “here”. My wife is concerned about “what this will do to me”, i.e., for lack of a better term, does this mean that I’m going to become a “Jesus freak”. At the end of the day, I think this will just take time and I will have to demonstrate what it means through my actions and attitudes. And I recognize she may never arrive at the same place, which is okay. I was just looking perhaps for some thoughts on how to communicate this journey from here forward, and hopefully help her become more comfortable with it.

Really, I understand your impressions regarding the continued presence of the nanny. I’m here, you’re not, and I am fully awake to how things have evolved. Not going anywhere, not a decision I made alone. It is what it is, so please don’t continue to waste your breath telling me I should let her go. That ship has sailed and we are in a good place with that.

Then why ask us for anything?

I think you need to consider that you may not have actually grown up all that much since your last thread. You just have a new, “good” justification to keep doing the same stuff you’ve been doing. If I were your wife, I’d be worried, too.

 

[bluehen95]

Then why ask us for anything?

I think you need to consider that you may not have actually grown up all that much since your last thread. You just have a new, “good” justification to keep doing the same stuff you’ve been doing. If I were your wife, I’d be worried, too.

Because it seemed that a good place to ask about an issue involving my spouse and the Catholic Church would be a Catholic forum.

However, it seems I can’t unload my “baggage” from your all’s perspective. Notwithstanding the fact you have no idea what’s going on in my mind and in my relationship(s), and thus are not really well-positioned to tell me I have not “grown up”, it appears I need to get counsel from other sources and that’s fine, I’ll do that. Thanks anyway.

You know, it’s interesting to see a group of Catholics so eager to judge. It’s almost like you WANT me to be wrong. I’m sorry to disappoint you.

 

[Lorelei12]

Because it seemed that a good place to ask about an issue involving my spouse and the Catholic Church would be a Catholic forum.

However, it seems I can’t unload my “baggage” from your all’s perspective. Notwithstanding the fact you have no idea what’s going on in my mind and in my relationship(s), and thus are not really well-positioned to tell me I have not “grown up”, it appears I need to get counsel from other sources and that’s fine, I’ll do that. Thanks anyway.

You know, it’s interesting to see a group of Catholics so eager to judge. It’s almost like you WANT me to be wrong. I’m sorry to disappoint you.

No one here “wants you to be wrong”. But you continually try to separate the issue with your nanny as if it doesn’t matter anymore. Regarding your other thread, it’s very rare on this forum that nearly everyone agrees about something. Most people told you she needed to go, based on your description of the issue. You didn’t do that- fine, but it still matters. If your wife knows the nanny’s example is what led you back to the faith, the nanny is still relevant to the issue of sharing your faith with your wife. It’s not another issue.

We all want your marriage to work, and we all want your marriage to be faith-filled. We just don’t think those things are likely to happen with the nanny still around. You can believe that or not, but it’s a big obstacle.

 

[HouseArrest]

and extend the invitation one time each week, without pressure, to come to church with me

I think this is good. And yes be patient, it might take some time.

 

[pensmama87]

No one here “wants you to be wrong”. But you continually try to separate the issue with your nanny as if it doesn’t matter anymore. Regarding your other thread, it’s very rare on this forum that nearly everyone agrees about something. Most people told you she needed to go, based on your description of the issue. You didn’t do that- fine, but it still matters. If your wife knows the nanny’s example is what led you back to the faith, the nanny is still relevant to the issue of sharing your faith with your wife. It’s not another issue.

We all want your marriage to work, and we all want your marriage to be faith-filled. We just don’t think those things are likely to happen with the nanny still around. You can believe that or not, but it’s a big obstacle.

Thank you. This is much kinder than what I originally wrote, but it is frustrating to read the OP (and I apologize to you, bluehen, for my tone.) It’s good that you want to embrace the faith, but baggage has a way of sticking around, and the devil likes to make it stick around - sometimes he does this by making it look like the “Christian” thing.

I’ve learned some very valuable lessons from some really dysfunctional relationships, and not always from the dysfunction part. But that isn’t a good reason to keep the relationship, although it makes it easy to justify keeping it.

 

[bluehen95]

All due respect, but “it still matters” in this discussion only if it matters to us. If you won’t accept that it is not the issue at this point, I’m not going to try to persuade you any further. It would be nice if I had done things a little differently, but I did not. We’ve had many, many conversations about what happened in general and how I arrived at this point with respect to faith. If my wife tells me it’s behind us, I am going to believe her. It is not the reason she is uncomfortable with my return to the church. She finds religion strange as concept, she doesn’t feel welcome when she does go to church, and she sees what “happened” to her best friend, who she effectively feels she has lost. The other stuff certainly didn’t help but she has gotten to the point where she accepts it’s at least a legitimate endeavor for me.

Suspend disbelief for a minute and pretend I posted the question under the name “Gary” without all of the back story. That’s where I was looking for perspectives.

 

[Lorelei12]

Okay. I’ll pretend I know nothing about the nanny.

Your wife seems to be concerned that being more religious is going to turn you into a different person. That may be true, and who could blame her for being scared of that? The key is to allow your faith to change you for the better- that means being a holy, good man, husband and father. If she sees that your faith gives you the strength to rely on God and act with integrity and holiness in all that you do, she may become more interested herself.

Don’t be pushy, though. It seems like you’re just starting this out yourself, so if she’s not interested at this time don’t make a big deal about it. Work on your own spirituality, invite her to Mass, but I’d back off on the reading out loud the daily readings right now. It might be too much.

I think the best way you can lead her to the church is by your own example. There are a lot of people who think the religious are a bunch of hypocrites, and sometimes for good reasons. Develop your relationship with God, ask Him for help in being the best husband and father you can be, and show your wife that being Catholic is a good thing.

 

[bluehen95]

Thank you. That is helpful.