New Dubium on Hysterectomy Dec 2018 Follow up

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The National Catholic Bioethics Center has published a response to the December '18 dubium concerning hysterectomy. I would have posted this on the threads from January on this topic, but they are of course now closed, so I can’t. Here is the link:

https://www.ncbcenter.org/resources/news/commentary-cdf-responsum-december-10-2018/

I know at least @edward_george1 had wanted to see this link.

It seems at this time they know of no medical cases that fit the description given in the Dec dubiam:
At this time, the NCBC ethicists are not aware of concrete cases that would fit these criteria. … The Center looks forward to further clarification regarding medical cases that would unambiguously fulfill the criteria outlined in the responsum .
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For reference, here are the links to the two previous threads
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A yes to prophylactic hysterectomy - congregation for the doctrine of faith in response to a question Moral Theology
I feel that it cannot be justified by the principle of double effect because ether good effect is achieved as result of bad effect. A uterus which cannot bear a pregnancy is not a threat to mother unless she becomes pregnant. Here pregnancy is prevented removing the uterus, which is the bad effect, to save mother from the consequences of pregnancy, which is the good effect. Again, the principle of totality cannot justify their answer. So this act seems to be a mutilation. Can anyone explain this…
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CDF Issues Guidance on use of Hysterectomy in Some Situations Catholic News
The hypothetical seems to imagine an imperfect womb that can only get the job done part-way. I’d always considered such people to be parents if they got pregnant (ie they have a child, but it dies before birth). It would help to know what situation the article has in mind.
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Thanks. The recent answer from the CDF was very problematic IMO. The NCBC has done an admirable job trying to reconcile it to the Church’s doctrine, but doing so makes it meaningless and irrelevant…
 
I really don’t think these days that any woman would choose hysterectomy as contraception. The general lore among women is avoid hysterectomy if humanly possible because of the negative long term side effects.
 
I’m having trouble imagining why anyone who wasn’t in the position of needing a hysterectomy would care about this ruling.
 
That was quite a thorough explanation. It answered my immediate questions, too.
 
It is probably rare, but exists.

Some Catholics women/or couples may wishes in their heart need a medical hysterectomy in order to avoid others pregnancies without have to made the delibereate choice of contraception.
 
Anicette said:
It is probably rare, but exists.

Some Catholics women/or couples may wishes in their heart need a medical hysterectomy in order to avoid others pregnancies without have to made the delibereate choice of contraception.
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Although it is speculation, I believe that I can agree in one specific case. The lady (who is an elderly relation) opted for hysterectomy on the birth of her 11th child at her doctors urging. Because she was an anti NFP Catholic, there was speculation that she chose the option as a way out of having more children. Sadly, she had a lot of negative side effects after having the procedure that changed her personality a lot in a negative way and then she was diagnosed with cancer which she blamed on the hysterectomy (rightly or wrongly). In the intervening years she has changed her views about NFP. (That seems to happen a lot in anti NFP circles. There are no real elderly proponents. )
 
I had been using NFP for years, because of medical reasons, to avoid pregnancy.

At one point my doctor recommended a hysterectomy. And I followed her recommendation. After all of those years of GYN problems, I had a light at the end of the tunnel.

It was major surgery, with a very long recovery. And I have to take medication because I also lost my ovary. (I had just one.)

The surgery helped me so much and looking back, yes, I wish that my doctor had recommended it much sooner.

But I couldn’t imagine getting a hysterectomy just so I wouldn’t get pregnant.
 
I do not care about the ruling emotionally (I guess that is what “care” means, though). I find it useful data in understanding morality in other areas. The law of double effect is applicable to a lot of life’s quandaries.
 
Anicette said:
Yes… Hysterectomy is an heavy medical procedure that bears many possible harfull consequences.
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That is a sweeping generalisation, and potentially worrying to any readers who are facing it.

It CAN take some getting over, if the patient is in a poor physical shape to start with.

However, other women sail through it, and bless that day it was offered, if they had been suffering unbearable pain from fibroids before it, for instance.
 
TechieGuy, I agree with pnewton that the hysterectomy cases are helpful for illustrating PDE (the principle of double effect), which appears in many scenarios. So the promise of something new to cogitate upon in that department had peaked my interest. 🤓
 
It was pretty incredible, the hoops that I had to jump through for insurance.

And although it wasn’t a triple bypass, I did have to go through blood typing for possible transfusions, spent 3 days in the hospital and I wasn’t allowed to go back to work for 6 weeks.

So no, not a triple bypass, but also not an hang nail.
 
I’m a little confused. Your post reads like you got the hysterectomy b/c you needed to avoid pregnancy due to medical reasons.

But later you say “but I couldn’t imagine getting a hysterectomy just so i wouldn’t get pregnant”.
 
Then you either misread my post or I wasn’t clear.

Yes, I avoided pregnancy, due to medical reasons. And I did so for many years

But my surgery was medically warranted and had nothing to do with avoiding pregnancy. It had everything to do with not wanting repeated blood transfusions and easing debilitating, daily pain. For reference, my doctor, at the time, was an NFP only, Catholic, GYN. She has since retired. I went under for my surgery praying the Hail Mary.

So, again, after everything I went through to have my surgery approved, I couldn’t imagine having to go through all of that just so I wouldn’t get pregnant.
 
Thanks for the clarification…I think I just misread what you posted. Sorry you had to go through that
 
Thanks, Genesis315. The last full paragraph of your article makes me wonder if they are thinking about women who do not have much control over their personal lives day to day due to some type of duress, but they do have some control over their medical care.
 
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While applying the same principles this might be an area where someone could try to justify sodomy. Think about the divorced and remarried issue. Smell similar?
 
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