New English Translation of Mass: Gloria more judgemental?

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Stylteralmaldo

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In our weekly bullitin at Mass, some of the coming changes to it were written to give everyone an idea as to what in particular will change. When my wife looked at the changes, one of the translations stood out in particular: the changing of the Gloria from:

“peace to his people on earth”

to

“peace on earth to people of good will”

It does at the very least make it appear that we are offering Glory to God in the highest and peace on earth only to those of good will - whereas before it was peace to all his people on earth. Is there a judgement being made that we only wish peace to those of good will whereas before we were more inclusive as to whom we wished peace upon?

Thoughts?
 
Think of it as a blessing upon those who work for His Kingdom as opposed to those who don’t.
 
The new translation corresponds to not only the Latin text of the Missal but also what the angels said in Luke 2:14. Instead of seeing one translation as more judgmental, it seems as though one is better. Perhaps it is judgmental of me to say that.
 
Oh for cryin’ out sideways!!! :rolleyes:

This is a more faithful translation from the Latin, and more accurate to scripture. What is there to be “judgmental” about? Besides, having the ability to judge is a gift from God, it is one of the things that separates us from the animals, and give us the ability to know right from wrong.

No - it’s not more “judgmental” it is more accurate.

~Liza
 
The words are those of the angels, the multitude of heavenly hosts who praised God after the shepherds were told of the birth of the Messiah.

***And this will be a sign for you: you will find an infant wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a manger." And suddenly there was a multitude of the heavenly host with the angel, praising God and saying: “Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.” **(Luke 2:12-14 NAB)

**“Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!” **(Luke 2:14 RSV and RSV-2CE)

Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will (Douay-Rheims)*

This is the way the angels themselves gave praise to God on the evening of the birth of our Lord.

I think it is just a reflection of reality. What hope of peace do we have if we go around with ill will toward others?

-Tim-
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
InIt does at the very least make it appear that we are offering Glory to God in the highest and peace on earth only to those of good will - whereas before it was peace to all his people on earth. Is there a judgement being made that we only wish peace to those of good will whereas before we were more inclusive as to whom we wished peace upon?

Thoughts?
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the prayer is not our wish expressed to and about others and it is not in our power to grant peace to anyone. Rather the Gloria begins with this proclamation of the angels at Christ’s birth given to the shepherds from Luke’s gospel, and we echo their message, in effect praying it with them, and as others have cited, this is the literal translation of what message they brought from heaven to mankind.
 
salusanimarum17 said:
The new translation corresponds to not only the Latin text of the Missal but also what the angels said in Luke 2:14. Instead of seeing one translation as more judgmental, it seems as though one is better. Perhaps it is judgmental of me to say that.
Click to expand...
lizaanne said:
No - it’s not more “judgmental” it is more accurate.
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Or maybe it is more accurate and more “judgmental” (if that is the right word, which I doubt). In this respect, the really big change will come in the words of the Consecration: “It will be shed for you and for all” → “It will be shed for you and for many.” It that more “judgmental”? Well, it’s straight from the lips of Jesus as recorded in the sacred Gospels. If that’s being judgmental, then it’s certainly following the best of examples. Likewise, if we are concerned about the Gloria, the real question to ask is, in Luke 2, why did the company of angels cry out “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to people of good will”? Or, as the NAB has it, “Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.” The NAB footnote explains:
[T]he peace that results from the Christ event is for those whom God has favored with his grace. This reading is found in the oldest representatives of the Western and Alexandrian text traditions and is the preferred one; the Byzantine text tradition, on the other hand, reads: “on earth peace, good will toward men.” The peace of which Luke’s gospel speaks (Luke 2:14; 7:50; 8:48; 10:5-6; 19:38, 42; 24:36) is more than the absence of war of the pax Augusta; it also includes the security and well-being characteristic of peace in the Old Testament.
 
As many have said, this is not a brand new text that someone just made up. The first lines are scripturally based, and it is simply a literal translation of what was prayed in Latin for a very long time.
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
In our weekly bullitin at Mass, some of the coming changes to it were written to give everyone an idea as to what in particular will change. When my wife looked at the changes, one of the translations stood out in particular: the changing of the Gloria from:

“peace to his people on earth”

to

“peace on earth to people of good will”

It does at the very least make it appear that we are offering Glory to God in the highest and peace on earth only to those of good will - whereas before it was peace to all his people on earth. Is there a judgement being made that we only wish peace to those of good will whereas before we were more inclusive as to whom we wished peace upon?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
That is the literal translation of the Greek (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_in_excelsis_Deo) :
Code: 
Δόξα Σοι τῷ δείξαντι τὸ φῶς.
Glory to Thee who has shown us the light.
Δόξα ἐν ὑψίστοις Θεῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς εἰρήνη ἐν ἀνθρώποις εὐδοκία.
Glory in the highest to God and on Earth peace to people of goodwill (literally)
Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace, goodwill to all people.

Now my literal translation differs. εὐδοκία= goodwill; ἐν ἀνθρώποις = to men, so the translation as you see it is not easy. what did the author intended to transmit? Old Greek is difficult, I had a teacher who was a training with me and who was Greek. she said that to her Old Greek was more difficult than latin and she was Greek and with a PhD in Greek Literature. Now imagine us…

The priests try each time more to give a literal translation but sometimes ir would be better to give a modern world translation but one must balance between both criteria.
 
ibo said:
That is the literal translation of the Greek (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_in_excelsis_Deo) :
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No verb in the Greek either? (i.e. not “Glory BE to God in the highest.”)

I say that because Dominus vobiscum contains no verb. Yet the English supplies a subjunctive (“The Lord BE with you,” unintentionally perhaps(?) when the Lord is already with you) there and leaves the Gloria as written.
 
With regards specifically to the Gloria, what about the slight variations in wording that exist between different sung versions of the Gloria? For example, the sung version commonly in use in my own Diocese renders the line discussed above as ‘peace to his people, peace on Earth’. This is a departure from the usual spoken version of ‘peace to his people on Earth’. Will the new Mass translation have any affect on this?
 
O_Duirnin said:
With regards specifically to the Gloria, what about the slight variations in wording that exist between different sung versions of the Gloria? For example, the sung version commonly in use in my own Diocese renders the line discussed above as ‘peace to his people, peace on Earth’. This is a departure from the usual spoken version of ‘peace to his people on Earth’. Will the new Mass translation have any affect on this?
Click to expand...
No, the new translation does not affect the principal of following the text.

Even after the new translation begins to be used, it is not allowed to modify the text of the gloria, or any other prayer.
 
O_Duirnin said:
With regards specifically to the Gloria, what about the slight variations in wording that exist between different sung versions of the Gloria? For example, the sung version commonly in use in my own Diocese renders the line discussed above as ‘peace to his people, peace on Earth’. This is a departure from the usual spoken version of ‘peace to his people on Earth’. Will the new Mass translation have any affect on this?
Click to expand...
No worries, I’m sure that new musical settings of the Mass are already in the works by various composers.

~Liza
 
O_Duirnin said:
With regards specifically to the Gloria, what about the slight variations in wording that exist between different sung versions of the Gloria? For example, the sung version commonly in use in my own Diocese renders the line discussed above as ‘peace to his people, peace on Earth’. This is a departure from the usual spoken version of ‘peace to his people on Earth’. Will the new Mass translation have any affect on this?
Click to expand...
My understanding is that all music that follows the old translation will be discontinued. I don’t know if they will allow exceptions.

Shame as I will miss some of the arrangements.
 
ProVobis said:
My understanding is that all music that follows the old translation will be discontinued. I don’t know if they will allow exceptions.

Shame as I will miss some of the arrangements.
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While I can’t say for sure, I highly doubt they will allow the old text to be continued. Many of the mass settings are being revised though. Which ones will you miss?
 
It’s not more judgmental. :rolleyes:

Here’s a rendition that I absolutely abhor because of one GLARING word at the beginning. See if you can pick it up. 😃
WARNING: Terrible trumpet playing.that assaults the ears.
youtu.be/OUzonXOIoZQ
 
Love_Divine said:
It’s not more judgmental. :rolleyes:

Here’s a rendition that I absolutely abhor because of one GLARING word at the beginning. See if you can pick it up. 😃
WARNING: Terrible trumpet playing.that assaults the ears.
youtu.be/OUzonXOIoZQ
Click to expand...
Is it “sing!”? This version has two “mistakes:” “Sing” and “…God’s people on earth.”
Which one were you talking about?
 
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