New Forum Member Alaris: LDS & Topic of Interest

  • Thread starter Thread starter alaris
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Chris-Wa1 said:
Absolute heresy
Click to expand...
Yes…absolute insane heresy. With my background and my family’s background, some of what Alaris writes hurts me to read. It as if somebody punched me hard in the gut and left me to cough up blood. Children are especially susceptible to this…No child should be raised with this stuff…I think.

However, my advice is to think “They know not what they do”. Try not to condemn…it’s not a good weapon. Try to lovingly engage as much as possible. Try to understand the Mormon’s and related religion’s background and history.
 
Last edited:
I’ve been posting on these forums for about a decade, mostly on threads dealing with LDS issues. I used to feel the way you do, but after hearing the same nonsense from Mormon after Mormon I finally decided to stop beating around the bush and just be direct. The more I learn about Mormonism the more obvious it is that the religion is a crock, and instead of wasting my time delving into peripheral issues I find it’s better to just get to the point and stick with the important stuff.
 
Chris-Wa1 said:
Why won’t you call Joseph Smith a con man when all evidence points to exactly that? He was the very definition of a con man.
Click to expand...
You may well be right. However I have never read the book of Mormon, never met Joseph Smith, and honestly have never read his history. I am loathe to call anybody anything pejorative or inflammatory without firsthand understanding that person and his actions well. For me, that isn’t the case with Smith.
Besides, I’ve met too many Mormons who obviously believe in him somehow and my experience is that they are very good people. Maybe I’ve met the wrong ones?
And again, you may be right. I just don’t know that firsthand. And someone once said, “Thou shalt not bear false witness.” I kinda thing condemning another on hearsay is just as bad.
 
Well, keep reading. You’ll find out soon enough that it’s not hearsay. The evidence against Joseph Smith is overwhelming. Most LDS are unaware of the real history of Smith and the church. They’ve been fed a steady diet of the church-approved fantasy version all of their lives. Those that do find out the real story either leave the church, or if they decide to stay they end up practicing a very nuanced version of Mormonism to somehow make it work. Many who no longer believe are too afraid to leave for fear of losing their family, friends, or even their livelihood. Leaving Mormonism is very difficult and emotionally terrifying. Excommunication is quite common, and those that leave are treated as apostates, which is a horrible experience.

Right now the LDS church is in the midst of a massive faith crisis among its membership because the internet has made all the real historical information so much more accessible than ever before. It’s only going to get worse.
 
Last edited:
Chris-Wa1 said:
I’ve been posting on these forums for about a decade, mostly on threads dealing with LDS issues. I used to feel the way you do, but after hearing the same nonsense from Mormon after Mormon I finally decided to stop beating around the bush and just be direct. The more I learn about Mormonism the more obvious it is that the religion is a crock, and instead of wasting my time delving into peripheral issues I find it’s better to just get to the point and stick with the important stuff.
Click to expand...
For me, it’s the way they constantly twist and misinterpret everyScripture they post. There are days I read their posts and like Charlie Brown, I go “AAAARRRGH!”
 
joeybaggz, if you ever read the BOM, the first mention of Kolob will be enough to tell you all you need to know about it. The only reason I recommend reading it is because you’ll recognize every book Joseph Smith took from the Bible and retitled, claiming they were exclusively revealed to him since he was the one chosen by God to restore His “true” church.

In my case, someone had sent me a free copy of the BOM. I hadn’t asked for it since at the time, they only gave a phone number in their commercials and print ads. And we didn’t have a phone then. So we don’t know how our address got to them. (This was before the worldwide web came into being for John Q Public.)

Anyway, I had been curious because they advertised it as “another testament of Jesus Christ.” So of course, I wanted to see what Jesus had to say. The moment Kolob was mentioned, I about died laughing and handed it over to my mother to see if she could get through it with a straight face.

We both deemed the BOM “bunk” and left it at that.

Many years later, I joined the Amazon forum discussions and 5 years in, there were several threads started by Mormons. One of them asked me to read the BOM again and we would discuss it. I wasn’t keen on it. But because my last experience with it had been as a teenager, I agreed and managed to make it through. That’s when I discovered all the things that had been lifted from the Bible and that Mormons twist and misinterpret the Scriptures. And I still shake my head in amazement.
 
Yes Mormons reinterpret the entire Bible through the prism of Mormonism, which obviously came long after the Bible was written. They have the gaul to claim that everybody else was getting it wrong for hundreds of years until JS showed up on the scene. But it’s very easy to demonstrate that good 'ole Joe was a complete and utter fraud who created his own religion to fit into the landscape of his own time. But because LDS are so emotionally invested into the religion they have a very hard time taking a step back and seeing things objectively for what they really are. Emotion trumps critical thinking when it comes to their religion. They have been trained since they were little kids to equate those emotions with confirmation of truth by the Holy Spirit, so no wonder it’s almost impossible to see things objectively.
 
Last edited:
Yeah Kolob isn’t mentioned in the Book of Mormon, but tell us more about all one needs to know about it. lol

God could certainly not have named any planet or star and left such out of the Bible! Wait, how many star names are in the Bible?

Unfortunately, you would have to read, ponder, and pray with sincerity to find out the Book of Mormon is true. Even if we chalk up your Kolob comment to faulty memory, the disdain and confirmation bias will not equate to someone kneeling in humble prayer and asking God to show them the truth. Such a simple thing that is so very difficult to convince someone to do. Look and live.
 
alaris said:
Unfortunately, you would have to read, ponder, and pray with sincerity to find out the Book of Mormon is true.
Click to expand...
Or you could just do the research and find out it is not. The problem with the LDS method of “…and pray with sincerity to find out the Book of Mormon is true” is that it implies not finding out the BoM is true means you didn’t “pray with sincerity.” It puts the blame on the person, which BTW is how Mormonism deals with all situations when its members have serious questions about things. It always blames the individual for having serious issues with certain doctrines or historical problems. It’s never the church’s fault or the leadership’s fault. Never. Those members who start thinking for themselves and start questioning things are made to feel that they’re the problem, not the church. When members leave those still in the church automatically assume there must be something wrong with the person, like maybe they are sinning or have some moral problem. They cannot even comprehend that just maybe the person has some valid concerns and just maybe the church may be wrong about this or that issue. But it’s totally inconceivable to the believing member. Just one of the many cultish aspects of Mormonism.
 
Last edited:
That’s one way of looking at it. Here is another:

I spent two years trying to convince people to spend ~ 15 minutes of their time to just read, ponder, and pray - just consider it’s true with an open heart, and with real intent. Sounds easy right? That certainly was not the case in the Bible Belt or anywhere for that matter. Every single time I, my companion, and the Holy Spirit of God was able to convince someone to follow the promise of Moroni - every … single … time they got an answer in the affirmative. I witnessed over 30 baptisms. I’ve engaged the promise myself and have God’s witness spoken directly to me that I can recall clearly 22 years later. So - experiencing this myself and witnessing ALL others who have done so experience the same certainly reinforces this truth.

There was one exception - a teenage daughter of a woman who received such a witness - she wanted her daughter to know, so we returned day after day and the girl showed no desire. We finally convinced her to kneel with us - and you know what? She got nothing. She did not care to put forth the effort and certainly wasn’t open to the possibility of “yes it’s true.” The full promise must be engaged - if you read the Book of Mormon with confirmation bias that it can’t be true, well you already know better than God don’t you? So few are willing to submit to God like a child submits to his father.

We LDS hear all the time about people who were in placed in extremely humbling circumstances and just opened up to God to show them the way - whatever that way may be. And then two mormon missionaries not-coincidentally come knocking shortly thereafter. I’ve been on the other side of that equation. I’ve received the witness myself and have seen so many others receive it. And like all things good and true, the adversary works overtime and concentrates all his hate and all his vehement loathing wherever the truth shines brightest.

Why don’t you start a new thread and level all your attacks and the LDS church? Send me a pm, and if I have enough free time after taking care of my family, working, and engaging in Gospel study, I’d be happy to pop over there and have a civilized discussion.
 
Last edited:
All utter nonsense. All of it. The confirmation bias is what you gave to people when you were a missionary. They wanted it to be true, just like you did, and got they got the emotional response they were looking for. It wasn’t the Holy Spirit. It was their own emotions. Notice how no LDS missionary ever asks people to read the Bible and put it to the same test. Only the Book of Mormon. Basing belief in a religion based on feelings is not the way to confirm truth or disprove falsehood. I also noticed how you brought the adversary into the discussion. Also a sneaky LDS tactic to always say that it’s the adversary that doesn’t allow one to believe in the Book of Mormon. In other words, if one doesn’t believe in it, then they must be under the influence of the devil. Is that what you told your investigators? Horrible.
 
I can certainly witness that few of these investigators were expecting such a strong, direct answer from God. I certainly wasn’t myself. I knew to my bones and the depths of my soul it’s all true, and you certainly can put the same test to the Bible or any truth.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Maybe I’ll start the new thread, as there are forum members here who would certainly stick to the topic at hand. I’m very interested to learn what you all believe about the Angel of the LORD - not to pick apart your beliefs but to build upon my own.

That said, here’s another scripture I feel you may benefit from good sir, and then I’ll be happy to further engage you about the amazing LDS church in a new thread 😉

Matthew 11:28 ¶ Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Edit: or maybe not. The page says this will close automatically in 2 hours. I’m not sure why that would be unless there is a time limit on all threads or a mod flagged it for closing.
 
Last edited:
I find your Matthew quote particularly ironic because the yoke for your typical Mormon is anything but light. It is quite heavy. They have you guys jumping in so many directions with callings, meetings, and other responsibilities that you don’t know which way is up. Doesn’t leave much time for asking the tougher questions either. So many LDS women suffer from serious depression as a result of the constant pressure to be perfect.

My friend, the evidence against Joseph Smith, the BoM, the BoA, etc. is incredibly overwhelming. I know your church leadership discourages you from reading anything critical of the church (another example of a cultish practice). They are terrified of what you may find out. You can either ignore it and continue relying on your emotions or start looking into the really tough questions. The information is all out there, as many thousands upon thousands of your fellow LDS are discovering at the time.
 
alaris said:
2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Click to expand...
In your reference here to Exodus 3:2 I think you might also be interested in the parallel this creates with Acts 2:3-4 when the Holy Spirit manifested itself as tongues of fire on the Apostles as the Holy Spirit descended upon them. Seems to be evidence of the same kind of thing you’re talking about
Acts 2:3-4 RSV And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed and resting on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterances.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top