Back to the original post… sorry I side tracked the discussion.
Within the church that takes Paul as authorative, and accepts the incarnation and the trinity, then you would have to say that Jesus created a new convenant which removed the need for the old completely. Therefore the prophets speak of a future coming of the messiah and this future convenant instituted at the last supper. Jesus does say I come to fulfill the Law not abolish it, but this is at odds with Paul in Galatians. Jesus doesn’t spell out his theology in detail like Paul does. So if both Jesus and Paul are authoritative you would go in this case with Paul because he is more explicit on the topic.
In general, it seems that Christianity uses Jesus’ teachings to interpret the Torah and use Paul to interpret Jesus. You would say that these interpretations were there all along just given in the proper teaching.
Was that a fair summary of the church’s position?
Hi, Fred!
…the problem you are having is that you are viewing God’s Revelation as distinct and individual levels or parts…
It is not.
Forget Paul!.. here’s what St. Paul says about himself:
9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God, I am what I am; and his grace in me hath not been void, but I have laboured more abundantly than all they: yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
(1 Corinthians 15:9-10)
His career as a Christian began from a devout persecution of the Church Founded by Christ.
…what is that Church? …as I understand it, it comes from the Greek: ekklesia (εκκλησία); which actually meant: community.
Now, this Community Founded by Christ cannot be separate from God’s Plan; it cannot be an invention of Paul; it cannot be an insertion of Paul; it must be a Revelation of God Actualized.
…and it is!
Do you recall the Promise?
Abram met with Yahweh God Who, on His Name Vowed to make him the father of many nations (no not only the tribes of Israel); these nations would number as the stars in the Heavens and the sand on the shore (billions!)… but that Promise was not just a promise of many offspring but of One Offspring…
This Promise is Yahweh God’s Salvific Plan.
…the first steps… if you recall Abraham and Sarah were old… Sarah had been sterile from youth… so upon hearing about the Promise they took it upon themselves to procure it… wrong! God’s Design was not to be actualized through chance… so the human effort alone would not do. While Ismael was technically Abraham’s firstborn; he was not accepted by Yahweh God. His Promise required His direct Intervention: Isaac.
…this lead to Joseph and him to Ephraim… to Jesus–well so how does that fit with the Davidic kingdom?:
9 And he gathered together all Juda and Benjamin, and the strangers with them of Ephraim, and Manasses, and Simeon: for many were come over to him out of Israel, seeing that the Lord his God was with him.
(2 Chronicles 15 9)
The Promise is patent. It is Revealed through Moses:
15 The Lord thy God will raise up to thee a PROPHET of thy nation and of thy brethren like unto me: him thou shalt hear:
18 I will raise them up a prophet out of the midst of their brethren like to thee: and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. 19 And he that will not hear his words, which he shall speak in my name, I will be the revenger.
(Deuteronomy 18:15, 18-19)
(Note the type/mirroring: Moses: high priest, prophet, king and onto Aaron (Israel) like a god >> Jesus: High Priest, Prophet, King of kings, Lord of lords, God.)
The Promise encompasses the whole world:
1 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will bring justice to the nations…
4 he will not falter or be discouraged
till he establishes justice on earth.
In his teaching the islands will put their hope.”
(Isaiah 42:1-4)
…the change that you see in Revelation/Worship did not originate from St. Paul; if anyone is to blame, you must blame Cephas… but if you blame Cephas you must go to the source: Jesus:
21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
(St. John 4:41-24)
…there’s no contradiction in Scriptures and there’s no contradiction in God’s Revelation:
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love… 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
(Ephesians 1:4-10)
Maran atha!
Angel
