New Hell !?

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Traditionally there are four separate parts of Hell:

The part of Purgatory that is in Hell, the Limbo of the Patriarchs aka Abrahama’s Bosom aka Paradise of the Fathers, the Limbo of the Infants, and Hell proper.

They are viewed as four distinct caverns under the earth. . gigantic hollow spaces.

'The term hell is cognate to “hole” (cavern) and “hollow”. . .

Theologians distinguish four meanings of the term hell:
Code: 
* hell in the strict sense, or the place of punishment for the damned, be they demons or men;
* the limbo of infants (limbus parvulorum), where those who die in original sin alone, and without personal mortal sin, are confined and undergo some kind of punishment;
* the limbo of the Fathers (limbus patrum), in which the souls of the just who died before Christ awaited their admission to heaven; for in the meantime heaven was closed against them in punishment for the sin of Adam;
* purgatory, where the just, who die in venial sin or who still owe a debt of temporal punishment for sin, are cleansed by suffering before their admission to heaven.'
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St. Thomas Aquinas speaks about the four distinct portions of Hell in the ‘Summa Theologiae’,

newadvent.org/summa/4052.htm

The Summa goes into how Christ descended into Hell to deliver the Old Testament Patriarchs and righteous who were imprisoned there. Sinners in the Hell of the Lost were not delivered, children and others in original sin alone not delivered of course, nor those in purgatory delivered still due justice there.

So the Limbo of the Patriarchs is now empty and this is where Christ delivered the good news of salvation.
 
A hell before the final judgement and the same hell after. The former linked to time the latter bound by it eternally imo. Hell becomes completely eternal.
 
At the time of the general Resurrection, the souls in Hell are resurrected and given new bodies. Next they are sent to a new Hell, that is, to a Hell that is fitting for the punishment of soul and body. This is called the ‘second death’ in Scripture.

[Revelation]
{20:13} And the sea gave up the dead who were in it. And death and Hell gave up their dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
{20:14} And Hell and death were cast into the pool of fire. This is the second death.
{20:15} And whoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the pool of fire.

Lazarus could be in Heaven, even though the gates of Heaven were opened by the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, because Heaven is beyond Time.
 
The current Hell, and Heaven and Purgatory, are the abode of spirits. Lacking material objects they may7 be considered states of being rather than material space. * I think the Pope made some statement to that effect a couple of years ago.

After the Final Judgment human souls will be reunited with their bodies. At that time Hell, and Heaven, will have to incorporate material space.*
 
Joe_Kelley said:
The current Hell, and Heaven and Purgatory, are the abode of spirits. Lacking material objects they may7 be considered states of being rather than material space. * I think the Pope made some statement to that effect a couple of years ago.

After the Final Judgment human souls will be reunited with their bodies. At that time Hell, and Heaven, will have to incorporate material space.*
Their bodies have been divinized. Perfectly obedient to the divine will they are not bound by any physical laws. Like the beatified soul the body is no longer contained by time and space.:twocents:
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The Apostles’ Creed states that Jesus Christ is “…seated at the right hand of God the Father…”, in Heaven.

I presume that the Blessed Virgin Mary’s assumed body is also in Heaven.
 
donsnow said:
The Apostles’ Creed states that Jesus Christ is “…seated at the right hand of God the Father…”, in Heaven.

I presume that the Blessed Virgin Mary’s assumed body is also in Heaven.
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Good quote!
 
donsnow said:
The Apostles’ Creed states that Jesus Christ is “…seated at the right hand of God the Father…”, in Heaven.

I presume that the Blessed Virgin Mary’s assumed body is also in Heaven.
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Since God the Father has no Physical body, where is His right hand?

I suggest the reference is to symbolically portray Jesus as the Father’s Right Hand Man, and does not relate to a physical location.\

I recall the little girl who marveled that God could do so much with His left hand, because Jesus was seated on His right hand. 😃
 
How do you infer that just because the Heavenly Father is Spirit, that Heaven is not a physical place? Jesus is there in his glorified physical body. Elisha is there in his physical body. And Enoch is believed to be there, in his physical body. So, I would be led to believe that there are physical characteristics to Heaven, so that those physical people could be there.
 
I think people often dislike the idea of Heaven, Hell, etc. as a place conceptually these days because they like to keep things more modern and simple. 🙂 An emotional/cultural reaction.
 
donsnow said:
How do you infer that just because the Heavenly Father is Spirit, that Heaven is not a physical place? Jesus is there in his glorified physical body. Elisha is there in his physical body. And Enoch is believed to be there, in his physical body. So, I would be led to believe that there are physical characteristics to Heaven, so that those physical people could be there.
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material place and physical body provided you can explain what and where matter and physical are since there is no matter,no matter how for matter has been dematerialised as no matter that matters - twinc
 
twinc said:
material place and physical body provided you can explain what and where matter and physical are since there is no matter,no matter how for matter has been dematerialised as no matter that matters - twinc
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And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said: Peace be to you.

Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing. Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God.

Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.

John 20:26-29
 
Shin said:
And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said: Peace be to you.

Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing. Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God.

Exactly what is the point you are trying to make Shin - twinc

Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.

John 20:26-29
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Exactly what is the point you are trying to make Shin - twinc
 
twinc said:
no doubt,but exactly where is this place and what is a body - twinc
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Twinc,

Are you OK?

You keep on postulating these Philosophical questions on a Sacred Scripture thread. Any definition of place and body are in current use. Don’t ask for a new one of yours, here. If you really want to postulate a new concept of ‘place’ and ‘body’, you need to familiarize your self with past and contemporary philosophical debates on these topics, and then if you still want to, to start a thread in the Philosophy forum, where these questions belong, not here.

Thank you.

God loves you,
Don
 
Shin said:
That Christ has a body, occupying a particular place. 🙂
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Jesus Risen Body is independent of time and space. Therefore, I am not sure that it has to be anyplace at a particular instant. He may move from time to time just as He moves from place to place.

Similarly, Elijah and Enoch might have moved directly from their departure time and location to the time and location of their appearance in Revelation.
 
Joe_Kelley said:
Jesus Risen Body is independent of time and space. Therefore, I am not sure that it has to be anyplace at a particular instant. He may move from time to time just as He moves from place to place.

Similarly, Elijah and Enoch might have moved directly from their departure time and location to the time and location of their appearance in Revelation.
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Now, there’s a thought.

I wonder what the church teaches? It’s so hard to find specific topics in the CCC.
 
donsnow said:
Now, there’s a thought.

I wonder what the church teaches? It’s so hard to find specific topics in the CCC.
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I don’t recall ever seeing any teaching on this. I recall that, a few years back, Pope John Paul II said something to the effect that Heaven was a condition, not a location. However, I didn’t get into it far enough to find what his point was.
 
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