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TarAshly
Guest
I agree! i can not understand for the life of me why a person would change their sex! and im an adult!
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geocajun
Guest
uhhh how about…
From a Catholic perspective, Mr. X is still Mr. X, but has undergone a superficial change by mutilating his body to look like a women which is something he is not.
By mutilating himself, what he did is offensive to God, and he should repent of it.
Lets remember **him **in our prayers.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Well that’s a harsh approach which, imo, would make it difficult for a 12 year old to respond compassionately to the person. The term ‘mutilate’ is not one I would use for anyone under 18, especially self-mutilation.
Take into consideration that at the middle school level there are a lot of kids known as ‘cutters’. The movie ‘Thirteen’ depicted this rather well (definitely not recommended for kids!). These are kids who cut themselves regularly because they’re emotionally distraught. I don’t know about Catholic schools, but the public schools have these kids just about every where.
These kids, as well as the Goth’s and other 'outsiders, need our compassion and prayers more than anything else before their souls get lost for good. I wouldn’t recommend using the term ‘mutilation’ when helping my 12 year old figure out how to treat Suzie, the one with the cuts on her arms, in her homeroom class.
As for the, he should repent of this…that’s judgemental…you don’t know that he didn’t already repent, you don’t know what spiritual appeals he went through leading up to and coming out of the surgery. You do not know the man’s heart therefore you are not in the position to direct your child to presume he/she can rule on the matter.
Yes, what the man did was an offense to God, that, I can easily share with a 12 year od. But from there I’d say at some point he will need to repent for the offense, so let’s keep him in our prayers, ok, so that he may do so sooner than later.
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TarAshly
Guest
YingYangMom,
As usual your compassion for the Lesser of men is truly refreshing, i wish there were more people like you in our Church. God Bless you!
Tara
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YinYangMom
Guest
Thank you, TarAshley.
For me, parenting is so not about me or passing on my beliefs, good or bad, onto my children. I remind myself daily that they are not mine by thanking God every morning for sending them to me. I have always resisted the common tendency to view my children with the “he’s just like his dad, she’s just like her mom, he/she looks like X” so that I can see my child as the unique person he/she is.
I constantly remind myself that this child is God’s gift to my husband and me - that He is trusting us to care for him/her and guide him/her to know Him. They were not given to us so that we can feel better about ourselves, that’s just a bonus of the gift itself.
So everything I do in raising my children is from a ‘guardian’ perspective instead of the ‘ownership’ perspective. If my beliefs differ from the Church’s on any matter, I certainly don’t pass that on to my children. I teach them only the Church’s perspective and help them understand the rest of society’s perspective in relation to the Church’s.
I also share this view of parenting with my teen children so they can appreciate marriage and parenting for the gift/vocation it really is. Every person they consider dating has to be considered with the ultimate goal in mind and this has helped them to be quite picky about dating. At 17 and 15 neither is willing to go there yet and want to wait until they’re in college so they would be in a better position to commit emotionally to the other person.
By being stewards of our children, hubby and I have grown in our Catholic faith because we have had to look up the correct answers to share with our children rather than teach ‘off the cuff’ from our own views.
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bones_IV
Guest
What I meant is that many people have been given the wrong impression of God. Don’t misunderstand what I said.
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msh
Guest
I think that his (now her) coming back would be awfully confusing to the children still attending that school, and might actually incite children to “make fun” of this teacher and disrupt their studies. In high school, I studied under a teacher who was purported to be gay, and just the very notion of it made classtime very out of hand. I can only imagine how this teacher and the students he/she teaches will find a way to cut the “shock” of it all and actually proceed with class.
It brings up a good question, however: When are we supposed to learn about these different lifestyles? Should we even be learning them through public school, or is it a matter for parents and church leaders to come together on and educate (or not educate) our children about?
It seems like the world just keeps getting more and more complicated as I grow older, and I’m only 25!
It brings up a good question, however: When are we supposed to learn about these different lifestyles? Should we even be learning them through public school, or is it a matter for parents and church leaders to come together on and educate (or not educate) our children about?
It seems like the world just keeps getting more and more complicated as I grow older, and I’m only 25!
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mlchance
Guest
Not really. I mean, unless the surgery now includes gene-splicing to replace that Y chromosome with an X chromosome.
– Mark L. Chance.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Put it this way…and remember what it looks like to a 12 year old - this person is being introduced as a female, regardless of the fact the person was introduced as a male last year. Look, the kids are going to be put under the expectation to treat this person as a Ms. To emphasize with them that she really isn’t a she will make it difficult for the kid to conform and may get him/her in trouble. So long as you, as parents, know for certain your child understands the distinction, then that’s fine, but the parents here still need to be supportive of their child having to endure this crazy situation.
If you had never met this person before and didn’t know anything about them, but today was introduced to the person, you would never know she was a he at an earlier time - unless that person shares his/her story with you - or gossip reaches you first. So, again, for all intents and purposes this person will be living the rest of his life as a she. We can go around pointing our fingers and making sure everyone that person meets knows the TRUTH, but I don’t believe that’s what God would want us to do. The matter is between the person and God.
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mlchance
Guest
Which doesn’t actually refute my point.
The man hasn’t become a woman. He has paid physicians to mutilate his body so that he can live a lie. While I’m certainly not advocating persecuting such a man, I also feel no desire to lend any air of legitimacy to his very tragic choice.
– Mark L. Chance.
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YinYangMom
Guest
I understand your point is ‘correct’, and am not refuting that.
What I question is how working so hard NOT to lend an air of legitimacy to this person’s choice meets the goal of showing compassion for a person obviously in a struggling situation?
Here’s what goes through my mind:
Kid comes home, mom explains the situation to the kid, emphasizing this person has mutilated his body as an offense to God and has to go to confession for it. Kid understands, goes to school…
The gossip mill is in full force for the kid…everyone’s talking about this person…
Does the child, based on how his/her parent addressed the situation:
a) listen to the conversation, but does not participate
b) try to keep any discrimination/bias toward this person to a minimum by reminding the kid doing the talking that it isn’t good to talk about a person in that manner
c) use the opportunity to share Catholic teaching, emphazing the need for everyone there to be compassionate and charitable toward this person who is obviously struggling with a serious issue
d) use the opportunity to share Catholic teaching, emphasizing how damned to hell this person is unless he repents for his sins.
And then the kid comes home to share how his day went but the parent cuts off the conversation when the topic comes to Teacher X/Y either because the parent says “I don’t want that subject brought into this home, it’s bad enough it’s at your school”, or by going off on a tangent to again reemphasize how bad a state of sin this person is in.
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mlchance
Guest
Who’s working hard? Heck, I’m on vacation.
Better question: How does lending an air of legitimacy to a lie of this magnitude demonstrate compassion? I’ll hazard the guess that this poor man ended up in his situation precisely because too many people kept insisting on showing compassion divorced from the truth.
Compassion cannot be divorced from the truth. Whenever it is, lives are ruined or lost. This case is one example. Terri Schiavo is another.
My children would told to go for Option E: Neither listen to nor participate in gossip.
– Mark L. Chance.
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YinYangMom
Guest
How is treating the person with respect and not participating in any talk going on about the person lend an air of legitimacy to the situation?
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mlchance
Guest
Did I say to not treat the person with respect? No. Did I say to participate in gossip? No.
But calling a man a woman is a lie, and, as per my edited message above, compassion without truth is destructive.
– Mark L. Chance.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Ok, maybe I’m not understanding “the air of legitimacy”…
Parent teacher conference comes up…
you show up with Johnny to meet with his english teacher Ms. Y (who you know used to be Mr. X)…
In front of your child, do you address the teacher as Ms. Y or Mr. X?
If you address the teacher as Ms. Y, is that considered lending an air of legitimacy to what this person did?
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David_Paul
Guest
Those who want charity expressed to this teacher (which I believe is due) should read the article I posted a link to on the start of this thread.
It is from First Things, Fr. Richard Neuhaus editor.
firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0411/articles/mchugh.htm
Tolerating or endorsing this surgery is not charity. Just the opposite.
It is from First Things, Fr. Richard Neuhaus editor.
firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0411/articles/mchugh.htm
Tolerating or endorsing this surgery is not charity. Just the opposite.
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Lizzie
Guest
This dysfunctional man should never be allowed to teach children.
Those who support, aid and abet such like the NEA are guilty of damaging our schools and our children
Those who support, aid and abet such like the NEA are guilty of damaging our schools and our children
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geocajun
Guest
Bravo Mark. The mutilations are superficial changes, and do not change the sex he was born with.
This is just a guy in a ‘girl outfit’ - unfortunately he may not be able to take that outfit off since he has radically altered his masculine features.
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Karin
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlchance
*Which doesn’t actually refute my point.
The man hasn’t become a woman. He has paid physicians to mutilate his body so that he can live a lie. While I’m certainly not advocating persecuting such a man, I also feel no desire to lend any air of legitimacy to his very tragic choice.
– Mark L. Chance.*
:clapping:
Originally Posted by mlchance
*Which doesn’t actually refute my point.
The man hasn’t become a woman. He has paid physicians to mutilate his body so that he can live a lie. While I’m certainly not advocating persecuting such a man, I also feel no desire to lend any air of legitimacy to his very tragic choice.
– Mark L. Chance.*
:clapping:
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YinYangMom
Guest
Great article, thanks.
Makes me want to treat the people struggling with such serious issues with even more charity and compassion. What a mess these people live inside their heads and what misinformation they are being given to add to their confusion!
I still feel for this NJ teacher, moreso now, because it seems he isn’t going to find happiness this way either.
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