New LOTH?

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Solo1959

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I know that there will be a new Missal starting advent 2011. Does anyone know if the LOTH will be re-done as well? I use the single volume Book of Christian Prayer. Thank you.
 
It’s my understanding ICEL is working on it, but it won’t be available for quite a while. Sorry. I know they have draft versions of the Ritual and Pontifical as well as the Martyrology. I wish they’d do the Roman Gradual and Simple Gradual and fit the traditional melodies to the texts.
 
Thank you very much for your [REALLY fast] reply. I think you also answered a question I asked in a second new thread. I appreciate your help. You answered quite a bit for me. Thanks again.
 
The English translation of the Breviary definitely needs to be redone. It is frankly lousy.

Of course, there is always the Breviarum Romanum. If I ever get the opportunity to attend Mass in the Extraordinary Form exclusively, I may switch to that. Juggling two liturgical calendars is hard work.
 
Victorious said:
The English translation of the Breviary definitely needs to be redone. It is frankly lousy.

Of course, there is always the Breviarum Romanum. If I ever get the opportunity to attend Mass in the Extraordinary Form exclusively, I may switch to that. Juggling two liturgical calendars is hard work.
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Not understanding Latin, I can not comment on the quality of the current translation. However, I am somewhat uncomfortable with the variations between the wording of some of the prayers in the Book of Christian Prayer, and the wording of the same prayers at Mass - The Glory Be, for example.

I was really curious if when the Missal was translated, if the LOTH would be done as well, because it could be possible that the two might be even more different after the Missal is used.

I read, but do not pray, Divinum Officium, that I got from:
divinumofficium.com
divinumofficium.com/www/horas/Help/download.html

You may be interested as well.
 
stephraim said:
It’s my understanding ICEL is working on it, but it won’t be available for quite a while. Sorry. I know they have draft versions of the Ritual and Pontifical as well as the Martyrology. I wish they’d do the Roman Gradual and Simple Gradual and fit the traditional melodies to the texts.
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The last I heard from the head of ICEL is that it is on the table but there are a few other things they have to work on before the LOTH. We probably will not see it for another 10 years if they work on it the way they did the Missal.
 
Joannm said:
The last I heard from the head of ICEL is that it is on the table but there are a few other things they have to work on before the LOTH. We probably will not see it for another 10 years if they work on it the way they did the Missal.
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Yeah, that’s what the Assistant to the Executive Director of ICEL told me as well.
 
Solo1959 said:
Not understanding Latin, I can not comment on the quality of the current translation. However, I am somewhat uncomfortable with the variations between the wording of some of the prayers in the Book of Christian Prayer, and the wording of the same prayers at Mass - The Glory Be, for example.

I was really curious if when the Missal was translated, if the LOTH would be done as well, because it could be possible that the two might be even more different after the Missal is used.

I read, but do not pray, Divinum Officium, that I got from:
divinumofficium.com
divinumofficium.com/www/horas/Help/download.html

You may be interested as well.
Click to expand...
I’m not a Latinist either, but I do know glunky, clumsy English when I see it. I know from Fr. Z’s blog that the ICEL translations of the closing prayers (which are the same as the Collects for the Mass of the day) often bear little resemblance to the Latin originals. And I know that the ICEL translations of some of the psalms are pretty hinky (e.g., ICEL’s Psalm 110 (“The Lord’s revelation to my Master…”) is a far cry from “The Lord said to my Lord…”). As far as the rewording of the Glory Be, I suspect that has to do with musical settings for the psalms (maybe getting rid of older ones?).

Thank you for the Divinum Officium links!
 
Victorious said:
The English translation of the Breviary definitely needs to be redone. It is frankly lousy.

Of course, there is always the Breviarum Romanum. If I ever get the opportunity to attend Mass in the Extraordinary Form exclusively, I may switch to that. Juggling two liturgical calendars is hard work.
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For use with the current calendar, there are Latin options:
  1. Liturgia Horarum, for which chant books are also beginning to appear;
  2. Antiphonale Monasticum, for the current approved Monastic (Benedictine) Office, and it is only slightly heavier than Breviarium Romanum.
The nice thing about Antiphonale Monasticum (or Psalterium Monasticum) is that there is continuity with the pre-Vatican II Office; the psalmody is the same as the pre-VII Office, except for the use of the neo-Vulgate rather than the Vulgate translation (yes translation issues are not limited to English).

For the pre-VII Office in addition to Breviarum Romanum there is Breviarum Monasticum. If you’re a true “traditionalist” you should use the latter; the Roman Office was based on it for many years, Pius X broke that link in 1910 with his reform of the Divine Office.
 
Victorious said:
I’m not a Latinist either, but I do know glunky, clumsy English when I see it. I know from Fr. Z’s blog that the ICEL translations of the closing prayers (which are the same as the Collects for the Mass of the day) often bear little resemblance to the Latin originals. And I know that the ICEL translations of some of the psalms are pretty hinky (e.g., ICEL’s Psalm 110 (“The Lord’s revelation to my Master…”) is a far cry from “The Lord said to my Lord…”).
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Well, you can’t exactly fault the ICEL for that. They didn’t translate the Psalms, they use the Grail Psalms (which I’ve heard is one of the better quality translations of the Psalms). I know that there’s a 2nd version of the Grails Psalms that’s just come out, so any updated LOTH would use those.
 
Another option if you are not bound to recite the American version is the British version. It is a more traditional translation. I’ve no idea why we cannot all sing from the same breviary.
 
Victorious said:
And I know that the ICEL translations of some of the psalms are pretty hinky (e.g., ICEL’s Psalm 110 (“The Lord’s revelation to my Master…”) is a far cry from “The Lord said to my Lord…”).
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As another poster has mentioned, the Psalms from the American edition of the LOTH are mainly taken from the Grail Translation. In this case, it is the Grail translation that had “The Lord’s revelation to my Master…”.

I read somewhere that when the Grail translators did the translation, they wanted to reserve the word “Lord” for YHWH. Thus, when they came to Adonai in this psalm (and elsewhere), they translated it as “Master”.

Yeah, I bulked initially at the appearance of “Master” in the text, but after reading the explanation, it made some sense and made the choice less difficult to accept; not that I don’t prefer the traditional rendering of Adonai as Lord. But when praying the psalm, I still stick to the Latin whenever possible.
 
PKinsale said:
Another option if you are not bound to recite the American version is the British version. It is a more traditional translation. I’ve no idea why we cannot all sing from the same breviary.
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There’s an interesting article online about why there are different English versions of Liturgia Horarum and psalm responses to the Lectionary between the American and British liturgical books. This is the only source I’ve found on the matter, so do take some of the history related with a pinch of salt.

But I’m glad for the British “The Divine Office” alternative to ICEL’s translation in this case. The translation, except for the intercessions, are just so much better, that I’m glad that I can canonically use the British edition where I’m in. I used the ICEL edition when I was studying in the US, but was really happy to switch over when I graduated.

But no worries, we can all sing from the same breviary in Latin - as long as we stick to one form!
 
I hope it isn’t redone. Another $100 plus for the four-set leather bound edition. Yikes.
 
Newbie2 said:
I hope it isn’t redone. Another $100 plus for the four-set leather bound edition. Yikes.
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The Psalms at least will definitely change to the Revised Grail. It’s definitely a big outlay but I want to use the approved version. Guess I should start saving up now.
 
drforjc said:
The Psalms at least will definitely change to the Revised Grail. It’s definitely a big outlay but I want to use the approved version. Guess I should start saving up now.
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How do you know it will “definitely change to the Revised Grail.”

Is that opinion as to what should happen or do you have inside knowledge?

I could see them leaving them as they are.
 
ByzCath said:
How do you know it will “definitely change to the Revised Grail.”

Is that opinion as to what should happen or do you have inside knowledge?

I could see them leaving them as they are.
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I could also see them saying that it is OK to use the older version if changing creates “difficulties”. This was in fact permitted when the LOTH replaced the 1962 breviary, particularly for the benefit of older clergy.

I could also see that for a large community, where the expense of shelling out scarce money to replace all liturgical books, the Church will allow for a transition.

We have an example with the new Benedictine antiphonary. The choirmaster at our abbey has been introducing the new antiphonary very slowly even though it is now the “official” antiphonary for monastics. When you have monks that have been chanting the same antiphons for 60 years, you introduce change very gradually (many melodies in the new antiphonary, and many antiphons themselves, have changed).
 
It will be awhile, certainly. The English Mass translation is top priority right now.
 
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