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tom.wineman
Guest
What is your take on the modern New Mass music in your parish.
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tom.wineman
Guest
Best fit with me is #3 but then maybe it is just my parish or just me.
I was wrong once but it was so long ago I don’t remember what it was.
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Trelow
Guest
Give me some good ol’ fiery, soulful, bloody hymns!
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tom.wineman
Guest
You have that kind of music in your parish ?
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kmktexas
Guest
I don’t really fit any of the choice. My answer would be that the music used in our parish is DANGEROUS. We use one of the mainstream missal company’s music issue.
As an example, our Music leader is fond of a song that sings about how tha Church is an empty building until the people come in. This is a direct denial of the Real Presence! The second verse is worse.
We have all kinds of convoluted phrasing in order to accomodate inclusive, gender neutral language. We can no longer sing about Our Father or our brothers. They even change the words of older songs to fit this agenda. Some songs that used to be sung to God are now in the First Person (I, we, our). I am not sure if this is part of the “we are God” heresy or some kind of musical role playing but it does not help with authentic catechesis.
The musical selections that are used to replace the parts of the Liturgy are also dangerous. They replace the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Responsorial Psalm, the Lamb or God etc with songs that do not follow the prescribed words for Mass. So they are cheating the parish out of authentic worship.
The tunes may be catchy or even beautiful. Some are just boring but most are ok as melodies. It’s the words that destroy them.
Can you guess that this is a sore point for me? I used to love the music at Mass. I love to sing. Now I am so sad.
As an example, our Music leader is fond of a song that sings about how tha Church is an empty building until the people come in. This is a direct denial of the Real Presence! The second verse is worse.
We have all kinds of convoluted phrasing in order to accomodate inclusive, gender neutral language. We can no longer sing about Our Father or our brothers. They even change the words of older songs to fit this agenda. Some songs that used to be sung to God are now in the First Person (I, we, our). I am not sure if this is part of the “we are God” heresy or some kind of musical role playing but it does not help with authentic catechesis.
The musical selections that are used to replace the parts of the Liturgy are also dangerous. They replace the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Responsorial Psalm, the Lamb or God etc with songs that do not follow the prescribed words for Mass. So they are cheating the parish out of authentic worship.
The tunes may be catchy or even beautiful. Some are just boring but most are ok as melodies. It’s the words that destroy them.
Can you guess that this is a sore point for me? I used to love the music at Mass. I love to sing. Now I am so sad.
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VincentO
Guest
In our Parish, the music for the Sunday evening Mass is provided my a music group. They are a very talented bunch and the mass is celebrated reverently along with beautifully played and sung music - the combination is great and I really enjoy the mass.
The main Sunday Mass is sung with the choir who sing traditional latin chant for much of it - this is equally beautiful and as they’re looking for recruits, I’m thinking of joining. Much more traditional hymns and organ music are sung at this mass.
I don’t have a problem with ‘New Mass Music’ at all - but what I don’t like is when the words of the ‘sung prayers’ are changed to fit a tune! Sometimes they deviate too much from the original text of the prayer.
Peace!
Vince
The main Sunday Mass is sung with the choir who sing traditional latin chant for much of it - this is equally beautiful and as they’re looking for recruits, I’m thinking of joining. Much more traditional hymns and organ music are sung at this mass.
I don’t have a problem with ‘New Mass Music’ at all - but what I don’t like is when the words of the ‘sung prayers’ are changed to fit a tune! Sometimes they deviate too much from the original text of the prayer.
Peace!
Vince
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tom.wineman
Guest
Wow Vince, send them over hear.
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Trelow
Guest
no tom I grew up in a Methodist church, where we had an hour of singing before we even started the service. Catholics could stand to pop open a few Protestant Hymnals. Most of the stuff we sing in Mass is just so weak. thats my biggest problem with the Catholic Church, no FIRE! Come on folks, yes there is a time to be humble an solemn, but there is also a time to REJOICE!
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LarryM
Guest
My parish has good, reverent liturgy, and excellent music.
The choirs include a 20 voice Chancel Choir, a 12 voice Resurrection Choir, a 7 voice Liturgical Ensemble, a 10 ringer Bell Choir, and a 60 voice School Choir, all under the direction of a full time Director of Music and Liturgy.
The level of musicianship is very high. A number of the song leaders, choir members, and ensemble members have music degrees, and earn all or part of their living by making or teaching music.
The music is essentially the same at all Masses, regardless of whether the Mass is served by a cantor and organ, a 20 voice Chancel Choir and organ or piano, or a liturgical ensemble with piano and double bass…
The music selections are a blend that spans genre and time periods. Over the course of a month, all parishioners will participate in plainchant, hymnody, early or classical music, and material from current composers.
Several styles are generally present in the same Mass. For example, a Sunday during Advent last year included a very recent ‘Prepare Ye The Way of The Lord’ for Gathering, a Caribbean ‘Halle, Halle, Halle’ for the Gospel Acclamation, an a cappella Missa Emmanuel Holy, Holy, Memorial Acclamation, and Amen, and a 12th century text and tune for communion. The choirs also sang a 9th century plainchant for Presentation.
The choirs include a 20 voice Chancel Choir, a 12 voice Resurrection Choir, a 7 voice Liturgical Ensemble, a 10 ringer Bell Choir, and a 60 voice School Choir, all under the direction of a full time Director of Music and Liturgy.
The level of musicianship is very high. A number of the song leaders, choir members, and ensemble members have music degrees, and earn all or part of their living by making or teaching music.
The music is essentially the same at all Masses, regardless of whether the Mass is served by a cantor and organ, a 20 voice Chancel Choir and organ or piano, or a liturgical ensemble with piano and double bass…
The music selections are a blend that spans genre and time periods. Over the course of a month, all parishioners will participate in plainchant, hymnody, early or classical music, and material from current composers.
Several styles are generally present in the same Mass. For example, a Sunday during Advent last year included a very recent ‘Prepare Ye The Way of The Lord’ for Gathering, a Caribbean ‘Halle, Halle, Halle’ for the Gospel Acclamation, an a cappella Missa Emmanuel Holy, Holy, Memorial Acclamation, and Amen, and a 12th century text and tune for communion. The choirs also sang a 9th century plainchant for Presentation.
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tom.wineman
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LarryM
Guest
Tom,
There is no simple explanation as to why this place has such good liturgy in general. We have simply been fortunate, and blessed with good pastors and associates, and very talented musicians over the years.
This is a 110 year old parish of 1100 families in a culturally and economically diverse suburb of Chicago
There is no simple explanation as to why this place has such good liturgy in general. We have simply been fortunate, and blessed with good pastors and associates, and very talented musicians over the years.
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LariamTox
Guest
Catholics could stand to pop open a few Protestant Hymnals.
We should keep in mind that some Protestant songs (such as amazing grace) are not approiate for mass.
We should keep in mind that some Protestant songs (such as amazing grace) are not approiate for mass.
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pnewton
Guest
It is hard to answer due to the variety of music and the meaning of the word “new.” I like a lot of the hymn music like Holy God We Praise Your Name and Amazing Grace, but it seems many of the hymns in the hymnal are just filler.
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Veronica_Anne
Guest
Sure there’s a simple explanation as to why your place has such good liturgy in general.
Ever hear of “grace” ?
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Lance
Guest
I voted ‘gets the job done’. We used to have a great choir, they even went to Rome to sing in the Vatican. However, our pastor and the director had a falling out and the director left. Not sure but I think he was forced to resign. Something set the pastor off, I think it was the fact that several choir members asked him to mend the fences with the director and get him to stay, and he told several of the members they were doing the work of the devil and could no longer volunteer at the parish. The music now just “gets the job done” but the pastor is happy and he has another 5 years to go, so I suspect it will stay that way.
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tom.wineman
Guest
When are pastors going to learn shepherds lead sheep not drive them. When you drive them they scatter and when you ignore them they get into trouble
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tom.wineman
Guest
A pastor here of a 144 year old parish in this diocese recently decided to go into the New Mass mode of “simplicity” congregational music where instruments are for accompaniment only and should never over power the singers. Also no solo singing or choir only Masses
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LarryM
Guest
tom.wineman said:A pastor here of a 144 year old parish in this diocese recently decided to go into the New Mass mode of “simplicity” congregational music where instruments are for accompaniment only and should never over power the singers. Also no solo singing or choir only Masses
Tom,
I’m not sure if what you describe is all that different from what we do here.
We use instruments to accompany the congregation and/or choir, and the instruments do not overpower the singing. That’s just good musicianship.
About the only times we have true solos are for the Exsultet at Easter Vigil, and for the Sequence on those feasts when it is appropriate … but those are solo pieces by their very nature.
It is fairly rare for us to have just instrumental music. We do have an occasional instrumental prelude before Mass. And we use instrumental music sometimes for the Presentation during the summers when our choirs are on break.
We don’t have a “choir only Mass”, but the choirs will frequently sing alone at Presentation time. E.g. this week, the choirs will sing Mozart’s “Ave Verum Corpus” at Presentation.
Very rarely the choirs will sing something after the Communion song. For example, on the feast of the Assumption, the choirs plainchanted the “Ave Maria” immediately after Communion.
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LarryM
Guest
Veronica Anne:
My post was looking at it from the standpoint of creating a similar environment in another parish. I wouldn’t have a clue as to where to even start. … well … maybe a few small clues …
Of course you’re right … that is the ultimate reason.Sure there’s a simple explanation as to why your place has such good liturgy in general.
Ever hear of “grace” ?
My post was looking at it from the standpoint of creating a similar environment in another parish. I wouldn’t have a clue as to where to even start. … well … maybe a few small clues …
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Chris-WA
Guest
I’ve lived in many parishes across the country, and I’ve heard a lot of inappropriate music at Mass. The worst by far is “the rock band” approach. I was at a Mass in Gilbert, AZ and I couldn’t believe what I was hearing–loud drums, electric guitars, etc. None of the music was out of the missal. I like rock music, but never at Mass. There’s nothing sacred about it. It distracts from the real purpose of the Mass. It was a concert instead of an aid to worship. I couldn’t believe the priest didn’t just stop Mass and ask the group to leave right then and there. A lot of parishes think they need the big choir or musical group to attract attendance and get people fired up. If that’s why people are coming to Mass, then they’re there for the wrong reason. If they’re looking for entertainment, then they’ve missed the boat. One of the most beautiful Masses I’ve ever been to was at the National Shrine of the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in Washington D.C. It’s the largest church in the Western Hemisphere, and yet there was only a cantor and an organ player, and it was great. I really wish the church would come up with some more rigid standards for liturgical music. There’s too much lattitude to take something sacred and make it ordinary or even profane, which happens all too often.
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