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wasmit
Guest
How do you know?
No person can truthfully say that “All my thoughts and actions are not pre-programmed”, because no-one knows that.
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No person can truthfully say that “All my thoughts and actions are not pre-programmed”, because no-one knows that.
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wasmit
Guest
That is inconsistent with an omniscient and omnipotent creator god.
That is inconsistent with an omniscient and omnipotent creator god.
If there is an omniscient and omnipotent creator god, free will cannot exist. (other religions also have this type of god).
If there is not an omniscient and omnipotent creator god, free will can exist.
There are also other situations where free will can exist, for example if our omniscient and omnipotent god did not create anything, and is merely an observer. or if he is not omnipotent. or if he is not omniscient.
These statements logically follow from the assumption of an omniscient and omnipotent creator god.
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jmcrae
Guest
There can be no will of any kind, if we are nothing more than a selection of random chemical reactions and electrical impulses.
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jmcrae
Guest
Again - watching you make the choice (omiscience) is not the same thing as making the choice for you (puppeteering).
God is not a puppeteer.
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jmcrae
Guest
No it isn’t. You are misunderstanding what these terms mean, I think.
Omniscient means “sees all”. “Omnipotent” means “powers all.”
God watches us without interfering with our choices, and He is the source of our life - our ability to move and to think, etc.
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wasmit
Guest
I think you might be missing the point that, under these assumptions, creating humans while having omniscience and omnipiotence implies that all choices are pre-made. Because he knows every decision, and has the power to change every decision, at the moment of his creation of humans.
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wasmit
Guest
There is also the additional assumption that god created all humans (while at the same time having omnipotence and omniscience)
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onelife1
Guest
God watches us without interfering with our choices, and He is the source of our life - our ability to move and to think, etc.
God guides us by the spirit. Jesus died for us…so our sins may be forgiven. Receiving the sacraments in life are the most amazing gifts to have. We are called by God through our sacrament of babtism.
So, the spirit is in us…and this is how we are guided by the will of God. So, we need to all know our own spirit.
God guides us by the spirit. Jesus died for us…so our sins may be forgiven. Receiving the sacraments in life are the most amazing gifts to have. We are called by God through our sacrament of babtism.
So, the spirit is in us…and this is how we are guided by the will of God. So, we need to all know our own spirit.
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anon5216
Guest
This touches on something that can be common to Catholic, non-Christian, and atheist alike.
Regardless of any preferred religious mythology (or none),
anyone can take the path of self-inquiry.
If you believe you are an independent conscious being,
you can inquire as to who you really are.
Who is it that thinks?
Who is it that feels?
Who is it doing the believing or disbelieving?
If you believe in some part of your being existing after physical death, what is that part?
If you are not conscious of that part, then everything you are conscious of will cease to exist after death.
Just who/what are we really?
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TommyWommy
Guest
“Si comprehendis, non est Deus” (If you understand Him, He is not God)
–St. Augustine
But, keep searching. God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Eventually you will have to surrender your brilliant mind.
God is not the kind of mystery one figures out, like a puzzle to be solved. He is “mystery” because there is no possible way to fully wrap your mind around Him.
Incidently, one thing that makes Christianity unique is that it is not just a way for us to seek God. It is about a God who actually seeks US out. He is seeking you, my friend.
–St. Augustine
But, keep searching. God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Eventually you will have to surrender your brilliant mind.
God is not the kind of mystery one figures out, like a puzzle to be solved. He is “mystery” because there is no possible way to fully wrap your mind around Him.Incidently, one thing that makes Christianity unique is that it is not just a way for us to seek God. It is about a God who actually seeks US out. He is seeking you, my friend.
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onelife1
Guest
At one time in my life, not too long ago, I was to the point of not wanting to live due to sin. Yet, at the same time…I prayed everynight…for my Jesus’ to come and heal me. So, I always had hope…which is a virtue given from God. A will to live over took me.
Thank you God for calling me…in Jesus’ name. For my true passion is you. Jesus’ is true love.
'Ask, and it will be given to you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you. 8 Everyone who asks receives; everyone who searches finds; everyone who knocks will have the door opened. Matthew 7: 7-8
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steve_b
Guest
was:
Quite the contrary.
- Everything you mentioned previously, was an effect from a cause.
- Therefore you didn’t prove your point by asserting an effect / outcome happened without a cause.
I’m not going to do your homework for you.
You look up the causes of
- particles
- vacuun
- radioactivity
- decay
You mean like someone is 100% certain because they have mental acceptance of a claim that someone made that the moon is made out of swiss cheese? c’mon friend, you’re the one who is just contradicting without addressing the subject substantively.
was:
When you believe in something and argue for that belief but have no proof or evidence that you can show for such belief, that’s believing in something based on faith… or at least hoping it is true. I would suggest THAT is mixing faith with science
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jmcrae
Guest
How does God change human decisions?
God created the humans. God gave humans power to choose. It is the humans who “create” the decisions. Not God.
If I make a painting, it is not God making the painting - it’s me.
(More is the pity, since I think they would turn out a lot better, if it were Him and not me choosing where on the canvas to dab the paint.
)God created me, and God created the raw materials from which the canvas and paints were made. But it is human beings who thought of making canvas and paint, and it was me who thought of using the canvas and paint to make a painting.
God created the world, together with the raw materials that ultimately become a painting. But God is not making the painting, and God cannot be blamed, if it turns out badly.
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steve_b
Guest
If you keep reading that blog you wouldn’t have stopped at that quote as if it captured the entire story. Flew was taking baby steps away from his former position, but he was definitely seeing the arguments he depended on previously didn’t work anymore. That doesn’t mean he believed in the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob yet, but he definitely now believed in a Diety, a prime mover. And he uses the example of DNA.
Apparantly in the last few years, he is suffering from dimentia so everything after this that he might say will be viewed as suspect. But prior to his failing mind, atheism was not the answer he thought it was
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onelife1
Guest
If any one cares to know, I was searching for me. I knew deep in my heart …something was missing. So, with Gods love through Christ, God has given me a new begining.
Be righteous not self righteous.
Also, it still amazes me the words I write…they come from our Lord…I did not intend to get back on here.
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steve_b
Guest
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rookieonedge
Guest
You are stuck in the same argument that leads to nowhere. If God created all human beings and knows the choices of each human, moral or otherwise, it follows that, according to your argument, God is operating disengaged from His creation and why, then, would He have created us? We would have no freedom since He is making All of our “choices” for us, including choices of good and evil. Now, logically, why would God make both good and evil choices? To put it concretely, He would have to be a serial killer as well as a humanitarian at the same time which is impossible.
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rookieonedge
Guest
We come to know the Father through Jesus Christ. We know the Father is not an impersonal God. Instead of starting out with arguments about the existence of God, we can find out all about Him through the Person of His Only Begotten Son. Read the 4 gospels anticipating instead of analyzing. When I acually read them almost non-stop before my return to the Catholic Church, I fell in love with the beautiful 2nd Person of the Blessed Trinity. I wish (I pray!) the same for you.
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rookieonedge
Guest
I agree with you; I was just asking Was to get him to think about his arguments revolving (tediously) around God’s attributes, being all-knowing and all-powerful, yet respecting our free will.
My question which I posted earlier concerns how God answers prayer without interfering with one of His creatures. For example, when praying for someone’s conversion, how do our prayers aid in that person’s conversion? Is God working undercover to change that person’s mind or bend it in His direction although that person’s will is not turned towards His will? In other words, is He changing that person’s will? And is this in agreement with free will? (I know this question stems from Was’ arguments).
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wasmit
Guest
I’m looking for more of an evedential based approach, as opposed to unsubstantiated claims like this.
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