New Missal Changes

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Nelka

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I have just read the new changes that are coming in.

I must say I do not like them.

Would it be a sin to continue saying what we say now?
 
Short answer…a sin? I don’t know…you need to talk with a priest. But below you will read some strong words about neither bishops or priests or anyone else has the authority to change Sacred Liturgy…it has to be that way. Its the Universal Church’s public and official worship…not private devotion…which has much personal (name removed by moderator)ut/flexibility…

Pax Christi
Redemptionis Sacramentum

11.** The Mystery of the Eucharist “is too great for anyone to permit himself to treat it according to his own whim, so that its sacredness and its universal ordering would be obscured.”27 On the contrary, anyone who acts thus by giving free reign to his own inclinations, even if he is a Priest, injures the substantial unity of the Roman Rite, which ought to be vigorously preserved,28 and becomes responsible for actions that are in no way consistent with the hunger and thirst for the living God that is experienced by the people today.** Nor do such actions serve authentic pastoral care or proper liturgical renewal; instead, they deprive Christ’s faithful of their patrimony and their heritage. For arbitrary actions are not conducive to true renewal,29 but are detrimental to the right of Christ’s faithful to a liturgical celebration that is an expression of the Church’s life in accordance with her tradition and discipline. In the end, they introduce elements of distortion and disharmony into the very celebration of the Eucharist, which is oriented in its own lofty way and by its very nature to signifying and wondrously bringing about the communion of divine life and the unity of the People of God.30 The result is uncertainty in matters of doctrine, perplexity and scandal on the part of the People of God, and, almost as a necessary consequence, vigorous opposition, all of which greatly confuse and sadden many of Christ’s faithful in this age of ours when Christian life is often particularly difficult on account of the inroads of “secularization” as well.31
http://usccb.org/liturgy/documents/instructioneng.shtml#3
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The entire Church in the United States has been blessed with this opportunity to deepen its understanding of the Sacred Liturgy, and to appreciate its meaning and importance in our lives
usccb.org/romanmissal/
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With the exception of these and other modifications of the law explicitly assigned to the Diocesan Bishop,** no additional changes to liturgical law may be introduced to Diocesan liturgical practice without the specific prior of the Holy See.**
usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/rsbishop.shtml
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  1. Why was there a need for a new translation?
    The Missale Romanum (Roman Missal), the ritual text for the celebration of the Mass, was promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1970 as the definitive text of the reformed liturgy of the Second Vatican Council. That Latin text, the editio typica (typical edition), was translated into various languages for use around the world; the English edition was published in the United States in 1973. The Holy See issued a revised text, the* editio typica altera*, in 1975. Pope John Paul II promulgated the third edition (editio typica tertia) of the Missale Romanum during the Jubilee Year in 2000. Among other things, the third edition contains prayers for the celebration of recently canonized saints, additional prefaces for the Eucharistic Prayers, additional Masses and Prayers for Various Needs and Intentions, and some updated and revised rubrics (instructions) for the celebration of the Mass. To aid the process of translation of the Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments issued Liturgiam Authenticam, in 2001, an Instruction on the vernacular translation of the Roman Liturgy which outlines the principles and rules for translation. In 2007, the Congregation for Divine Worship issued the Ratio Translationis for the English Language, which outlined the specific rules for translation in English.
  2. Who completed the work of translation?
    The process of translation was a highly consultative work of several groups. The International Commission on English in the Liturgy (ICEL) is chartered to prepare English translations of liturgical texts on behalf of the conferences of bishops of English–speaking countries. The USCCB and the other member Conferences of Bishops received draft translations of each text from ICEL (called “Green Books”) and had the opportunity to offer comments and suggestions to ICEL. A second draft (called the “Gray Book”) was then prepared by ICEL, which each Conference of Bishops approved (a Conference reserves the right to amend or modify a particular text) and submitted to the Vatican for final approval. At the level of the Vatican (the Holy See), the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments examined texts and offered authoritative approval (recognitio) of texts, granting permission for their use. The Congregation was aided by the recommendations of Vox Clara, a special committee of bishops and consultants from English–speaking countries convened to assist with the English translation of the Missale Romanum
    usccb.org/romanmissal/faqs2.shtml#1
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Nelka said:
I have just read the new changes that are coming in.

I must say I do not like them.

Would it be a sin to continue saying what we say now?
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Nelka, these “changes” are actually corrections to the English translation of the Roman Missal. These were ordered by the Venerable Pope John Paul II because what we currently have now is not faithful to the original Latin text. It also elevates the language of the prayers addressed to God. Sacred speech needs to be different from every-day speak. What we do in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is out of the ordinary.
 
Nelka said:
I have just read the new changes that are coming in.

I must say I do not like them.

Would it be a sin to continue saying what we say now?
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not necessarily a sin but certainly disobedient, and confusing to those around you, and sadly disruptive of the unity that ought to be our reason for being together at Mass in the first place. Jesus makes us a communion of his followers as his flock, not a loose collection of random sheep all doing their own thing and going in their own direction at their own whim.
 
It could be depending on why your not saying the new responses, it is technically disobedience to Church authority. What issues do you have with the new translation?
 
You know back in 1967 when the first vernacular translations of the Mass came out, the English translation then was remarkably similar to this proposed translation. I learned it then (at age 11) and liked it. I was actually a little disappointed to have to ‘change’ to the 1970 translation which I found linguistically not so personally satisfying, and to have to ‘relearn’ the responses, but I’ve said it obediently and cheerfully for 40 years, and God willing I’ll say the new translation as long or longer if that’s what’s out there.

Give it a chance. It may grow on you.
 
I like the changes. It’s actually all about making the words of the Mass more correct, - more like the original Latin from which they are translated. The current translation we have is rather bad in places, it contains mistranslations.

God bless
 
I never knew about the translation part.

One thing is it will take me years to remember as I say what has always been natural and will have to learn to read the missal at Mass now.

I just don’t like change.

I wasn’t sure where it came from, whether it is the same bishops that want the tabernacle moved from its important centre point to some obscure point in the corner.

Just confused now.
 
Nelka said:
I never knew about the translation part.

One thing is it will take me years to remember as I say what has always been natural and will have to learn to read the missal at Mass now.

I just don’t like change.

I wasn’t sure where it came from, whether it is the same bishops that want the tabernacle moved from its important centre point to some obscure point in the corner.

Just confused now.
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The original ICEL (International Commission for the English Language) used a mode called “dynamic equivalence” when translating the Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI. Unfortunately, this means of translation was one of paraphrasing the Latin.

When ICEL submitted a new translation of the Rite of Ordination, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments rejected it and then began to examine ICEL’s other works. This led to Pope John Paul II ordering the promulgation of the document called Liturgiam Authenticam, the reconstitution of ICEL and the creation of a new oversight committee called Vox Clara.

This new change actually forces us to take a good and long look at the words we are praying so that we can understand their deeper meaning. That is why Pope Benedict XVI asked that a period of catechetical preparation be made for both the clergy and the faithful.
 
Hi, Nelka. I don’t know if it would be a sin, but it would definitely be disobedient (and possibly disruptive).

As others have pointed out, the new translation is actually a big improvement…much more accurate and direct. Right now, we in the English-speaking world are using a very watered-down translation that, in places, almost seems completely unrelated to the original Latin text.

Just one tiny example: ‘Et cum spiritu tuo’ is translated as ‘And also with you’ in the current translation (at least in the U.S.; I understand different parts of the English speaking world have different translations today). Even if you don’t know any Latin, you can see that the word ‘spirit’ (spritu) is in the Latin, but is completely missing from the English. The new translation restores the missing word, translating that phrase as, 'And with your spirit."

All the other changes are in that same vein…improvements to make it more honest and direct, instead of watered-down and simplified. It will also be one translation used throughout the English speaking world, so the U.S., U.K., Canada, Australia, etc. will all be using the same text, which is a good thing.

I understand the reluctance to change…I’m still a new Catholic (I entered the Church two years ago), and I feel like I just finished learning the current responses! Now I have to learn them all over again! But we will all get used to it, and should be applauding the new translation for bringing us closer to the real meanings of the text of the Mass.

God bless you!
 
I am 63 years old and have been Catholic since 1976. I have recently been hearing that changes in the Mass will become effective in November.
Can someone provide a brief easy-to-understand outline of WHAT the changes will be?
I can’t seem to find a good source for this information.
Your forum seems to be just a like/dislike commentary, which doesn’t help me if I don’t know exactly what is changing.
Thanks!
 
JoyceInNebr said:
I am 63 years old and have been Catholic since 1976. I have recently been hearing that changes in the Mass will become effective in November.
Can someone provide a brief easy-to-understand outline of WHAT the changes will be?
I can’t seem to find a good source for this information.
Your forum seems to be just a like/dislike commentary, which doesn’t help me if I don’t know exactly what is changing.
Thanks!
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Here’s the official site from the USCCB.

old.usccb.org/romanmissal/

Click on “Sample Texts” and you can read the retranslation of the Order of the Mass.
 
Nelka said:
I have just read the new changes that are coming in.

I must say I do not like them.

Would it be a sin to continue saying what we say now?
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well it would be a sign of disobedience and make people around you wonder what was going on. sinful depends on intent. I don’t like half the stuff I have been made to endure at Mass over the last 40 years but until I am elected Pope I am going to have to put up with it and work out my purgatory here on earth.

You might find yourself reconciled to the changes if you can find a source -usccb.org the bishops site, link to the roman Missal is a great place to start–that explains the reason for the language used in the translation, and compares it with the original Latin, especially where the passage is drawn from scripture.
 
Of course I’ll say the new things as I learn them, and I’m going to have to learn the new Mass parts to play on piano.

That said, I don’t see what’s so significant about being “faithful” to the Latin. Latin was not the language of any of the original texts of the Bible, was it? Jesus didn’t speak it, so anything we have in Latin is already translated anyway. “And with your spirit,” v. “and also with you,” potayto, potahto. And with “that I have greatly sinned,” instead of “I have sinned through my own fault.” Big whoop. If we’re going to change things, let’s change things that actually matter – like in some way that brings us along on the spiritual journey rather than keeps us mired in rehashing minor wording differences from the past. (Until I’m the pope I guess the priorities of the Church are going to remain a mystery to me. 😦 )

Alan
 
I’m sorry for the above rant, and that others here had to experience it. 😦

Please keep walking; nothin’ to see here … :cool:

Alan
 
benedictgal said:
Nelka, these “changes” are actually corrections to the English translation of the Roman Missal. These were ordered by the Venerable Pope John Paul II because what we currently have now is not faithful to the original Latin text. It also elevates the language of the prayers addressed to God. Sacred speech needs to be different from every-day speak. What we do in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is out of the ordinary.
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Actually Pope John Paul II asked for a new improved English Translation, but not a litteral translation from Latin to English.

What we ended up with is a literal translation from Latin to English along with the cultural context the Latin text had in it, which is not relevant to today’s English speaking people.

Jim
 
Anyway, in response to the OP’s question, all parishes in the US will be using the New Translation, so you’ll be required to respond accordingly.

Jim
 
I’m looking forward to the new translation. Latin is the language of our Church so it makes sense to me that we have a translation which brings it closer to the original meanings.

It is only the English translation that is being changed because the other language translations are more accurate. (Please correct if wrong)

Have you watched the video from the Bishops on the new translation? Did you know that some of the lines that are supposed to be in the liturgy were never even translated? So we have been using a truncated version for years.

If this new translation helps bring more sacred language back into our liturgy, what is wrong with that? I think it’s great. 👍
 
Miriam1947 said:
If this new translation helps bring more sacred language back into our liturgy, what is wrong with that? I think it’s great. 👍
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Nothing wrong with that, but I don’t see why being closer to a Latin translation is intrinsically more sacred, beautiful, or mystically accurate just based on adherence to a Latin standard. Words that mean things to people here and now are just as sacred without necessarily sounding medieval. I figure the sacraments haven’t changed, so hopefully for the last 40 years it is the “same” Body of Christ as it always has been.

Alan
 
benedictgal said:
Nelka, these “changes” are actually corrections to the English translation of the Roman Missal. These were ordered by the Venerable Pope John Paul II because what we currently have now is not faithful to the original Latin text. It also elevates the language of the prayers addressed to God. Sacred speech needs to be different from every-day speak. What we do in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is out of the ordinary.
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Greetings Benedictgal,

I was thinking that Pope John Paul II was raised to Blessed this past Divine Mercy Sunday this year. Am I thinking correctly?

God bless.
Anathama Sit
 
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