New missal--no genuflecting?

[Luvadoxi]

A comment over on Father Z’s thread seemed to indicate that this is so–genuflections to be replaced by bows. Is this true–has anyone heard anything about this?

 

[Phemie]

A comment over on Father Z’s thread seemed to indicate that this is so–genuflections to be replaced by bows. Is this true–has anyone heard anything about this?

What & whose genuflections?

The Priest’s 3 genuflections during Mass (1 each after the consecration of the bread and the wine and one just before he says “Behold the Lamb of God…”) are still there in the new Missal.

Where the present Sacramentary says “he makes the customary reverence to the altar with the ministers” at the start and end of Mass, the new Missal says “after making a profound bow with the ministers”.

 

[steboyz]

I really don’t care what they tell me I will genuflect when entering my pew and crossing over the middle of my church(going past the altar).I will never bow or do the arms out palm out thing when saying the Our Father prayer.

Why in the world do we worry about such things when people are allowed to enter the church in shorts and tight pants and flip flops.They can talk with each other before Mass and during Mass!

ger

 

[Phemie]

I really don’t care what they tell me I will genuflect when entering my pew and crossing over the middle of my church(going past the altar).I will never bow or do the arms out palm out thing when saying the Our Father prayer.

Why in the world do we worry about such things when people are allowed to enter the church in shorts and tight pants and flip flops.They can talk with each other before Mass and during Mass!

ger

The appropriate gestures are genuflections to the Tabernacle and the Cross on Good Friday and bows to the Altar.

I certainly would never suggest that anyone use the Orans position for prayers at Mass.

 

[markomalley]

A comment over on Father Z’s thread seemed to indicate that this is so–genuflections to be replaced by bows. Is this true–has anyone heard anything about this?

I think the quote you are referring to is this one:

The sad thing is, that in the new edition of the Roman Missal genuflections towards the tabernacle are forbidden and replaced by bows during the course of holy mass. This leads, as I could observe in many places all about the world, that the faithful do not genuflect any more, even when entering the church. How can we ignore the living presence of Christ in the Eucharist by laying more importance on just a symbol of his presence (the altar)??? This change must be repaired, if we do not want to lose another sign of faith into the Eucharist. I wonder, how the CDW can be made aware of the most damaging consequences of the new instruction, before it is too late. We can see, in the case of Ottawa, how difficult it will be in the future to re-establish signs of adoration due to the Eucharist. How can there be a “reform of the reform”, when the new edition of the missal, which has also brought good changes, is still going on to reduce the awareness for the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, true God and true man? What terrible damage, if people would no longer greet Jesus in the tabernacle by a genuflection? I know, they still ought to do this, like the priest at the beginning and the end of the mass, but you will see – the custom soon will have been dropped…
I think that this respondent is mistaken. There is no new missal coming out for the Novus Ordo. There is, on the other hand, a new translation of the existing Missal.

There has, to my knowledge, been no talk about updating the GIRM either.

(Of course, if the liturgically correct Father Zuhlsdorf concurs with this individual’s comment, I will take it a whole lot more seriously)

In other words, relax.

Still find an Extraordinary Form Mass…but relax.

 

[Corki]

There isn’t a new missal, it’s just a new English translation of the current missal.

In the parlance of “do the red, say the black,” only the black is being changed for English speaking Masses. There is (or shouldn’t be) any chages to gestures.

Edit: Are you in Canada? I think I found the Father Z entry of which you speak. It seems that in Canada, they have no uniform practice regarding kneeling during the Eucharistic Prayer. The GIRM says to kneel for the consecration but is open to interpretaton as to when exactly to kneel and when to stand again. It seems the Canadian bishops are seizing upon the timing of the introduction of the new translation to implement some uniformity. The US already has a uniform norm (approved by the Vatican) to kneel from after the Sanctus to after the Great Amen. Good for the Canadian Bishops.

 

[Phemie]

I think the quote you are referring to is this one:The sad thing is, that in the new edition of the Roman Missal genuflections towards the tabernacle are forbidden and replaced by bows during the course of holy mass. This leads, as I could observe in many places all about the world, that the faithful do not genuflect any more, even when entering the church. How can we ignore the living presence of Christ in the Eucharist by laying more importance on just a symbol of his presence (the altar)??? This change must be repaired, if we do not want to lose another sign of faith into the Eucharist. I wonder, how the CDW can be made aware of the most damaging consequences of the new instruction, before it is too late. We can see, in the case of Ottawa, how difficult it will be in the future to re-establish signs of adoration due to the Eucharist. How can there be a “reform of the reform”, when the new edition of the missal, which has also brought good changes, is still going on to reduce the awareness for the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, true God and true man? What terrible damage, if people would no longer greet Jesus in the tabernacle by a genuflection? I know, they still ought to do this, like the priest at the beginning and the end of the mass, but you will see – the custom soon will have been dropped…
I think that this respondent is mistaken. There is no new missal coming out for the Novus Ordo. There is, on the other hand, a new translation of the existing Missal.

We don’t genuflect to the tabernacle during Mass. We do genuflect to the tabernacle outside of Mass.

GIRM 274. A genuflection, made by bending the right knee to the ground, signifies adoration, and therefore it is reserved for the Most Blessed Sacrament, as well as for the Holy Cross from the solemn adoration during the liturgical celebration on Good Friday until the beginning of the Easter Vigil.

During Mass, three genuflections are made by the priest celebrant: namely, after the showing of the host, after the showing of the chalice, and before Communion. Certain specific features to be observed in a concelebrated Mass are noted in their proper place (cf. above, nos. 210-251).

If, however, the tabernacle with the Most Blessed Sacrament is present in the sanctuary, the priest, the deacon, and the other ministers genuflect when they approach the altar and when they depart from it, but not during the celebration of Mass itself.

Otherwise all who pass before the Most Blessed Sacrament genuflect, unless they are moving in procession.

Ministers carrying the processional cross or candles bow their heads instead of genuflecting.

The only time one is likely to pass before the Blessed Sacrament is at Communion time when one is moving in procession (as defined by the Church) and only supposed to bow. Ministers approaching to read are included in those who do not genuflect.

Now if we could only get the priests to actually genuflect while entering and leaving – though that’s unlikely to happen when they don’t even genuflect at the Consecration and Communion Rite.

 

[malphono]

There is no new missal coming out for the Novus Ordo. There is, on the other hand, a new translation of the existing Missal.

There isn’t a new missal, it’s just a new English translation of the current missal.

Yes. Just so. I’m constantly amazed at the number of posts (and threads!) on this when what’s going on is so very clear. (With a small handful of exceptions, I haven’t been to a Roman Rite OF in 35+ years and even I know what’s going on!) What is forthcoming is merely a translation. It’s not a “New Missal” nor is there any change to the editio typica.

 

[Phemie]

There isn’t a new missal, it’s just a new English translation of the current missal.

In the parlance of “do the red, say the black,” only the black is being changed for English speaking Masses. There is (or shouldn’t be) any chages to gestures.

Edit: Are you in Canada? I think I found the Father Z entry of which you speak. It seems that in Canada, they have no uniform practice regarding kneeling during the Eucharistic Prayer. The GIRM says to kneel for the consecration but is open to interpretaton as to when exactly to kneel and when to stand again. It seems the Canadian bishops are seizing upon the timing of the introduction of the new translation to implement some uniformity. The US already has a uniform norm (approved by the Vatican) to kneel from after the Sanctus to after the Great Amen. Good for the Canadian Bishops.

The consecration is a very specific moment of the Eucharistic Prayer, so we kneel for that and stand again for “Let us proclaim the mystery of Faith.”

The general consensus from those who teach liturgy is that we should be assuming the same posture for the entire Eucharistic Prayer, precisely because it is ONE prayer. OTOH there is no general consensus on whether that posture should be standing or kneeling, on that one there are two camps.

It’s my understanding, from workshops back in 2002-2003 for priests and pastoral workers that when we start using the new translation (the moment at which the ‘new’ GIRM will go into effect in Canada) we will be kneeling for the entire Eucharistic Prayer. Since priests and bishops can’t agree now on what posture should be assumed, I don’t expect to see any uniformity in Canadian churches for at least another 20 years.

 

[Angel_Bradford]

We don’t genuflect to the tabernacle during Mass. We do genuflect to the tabernacle outside of Mass.
The only time one is likely to pass before the Blessed Sacrament is at Communion time when one is moving in procession (as defined by the Church) and only supposed to bow. Ministers approaching to read are included in those who do not genuflect.

Now if we could only get the priests to actually genuflect while entering and leaving – though that’s unlikely to happen when they don’t even genuflect at the Consecration and Communion Rite.

The priests only genuflect when entering or leaving if the Tabernacle is visible. If it is not visible, they bow.

 

[Phemie]

The priests only genuflect when entering or leaving if the Tabernacle is visible. If it is not visible, they bow.

I know, and in our church the Tabernacle is most visible, it’s centered behind the altar. Still no genuflection from any priest upon entering or leaving the sanctuary at Mass.

 

[Angel_Bradford]

I know, and in our church the Tabernacle is most visible, it’s centered behind the altar. Still no genuflection from any priest upon entering or leaving the sanctuary at Mass.