New Missal Poll

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Dave_in_Dallas

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I’ve read over the new missal to be introduced in the US in 2011. I believe it will put some reverence back into the Mass. What affect (if any) do you think it will have on the US church?
 
Dave_in_Dallas said:
I’ve read over the new missal to be introduced in the US in 2011. I believe it will put some reverence back into the Mass. What affect (if any) do you think it will have on the US church?
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A LOT will depend on how the changes are introduced in each parish. I love the changes, I agree with you that they will increase reverence – IF they’re not just dumped on the parishioners, and IF the anti-changes whiners (I know that’s uncharitable, but I just can’t think of a better word at the moment) are told clearly that this is the way it’s going to be, period.
 
I almost said mileage will vary from parish to parish. I agree that in the small percentages of parishes where the Mass is said in a spirit of continuity with the traditional Mass, it can only get better and more beautiful. But, in the large majority of average suburban parishes, I think nothing will really change. I wonder just how many parishes will be holding out on Nov 27, 2011. Or delaying this and that. Or just doing the absolute minimum.

There has to be more than just a changing of the words. It seems to me there has to be a real changing of the hearts and minds of our priests, musicians, liturgists, etc. The more sacred language should lead one to conclude that the other actions of the Mass need to be rethought to match the new tone of the Mass. It’s not the 1960’s and early 1970’s anymore.

Unfortunately, in my experience, you’re lucky if most of the Ordinary Form priests say 50%of the actual Missal text at Mass now. The rest is a combination of ad libbed, ad hoc, creative, inclusive, made up phrases. With that said, what’s to prevent priests from ad libbing back to the old translations after Nov 27, 2011? Ok, so maybe they start out with only one or two phrases. Then when they get comfortable with the words, they change more and more of the phrases. Don’t theologically like “for many”? Go back to “for all”. Let the choir sing “Christ has died…” if they whine and cry just to be pastoral and sensitive.

Then you can’t tell the current Missal from the new Missal. So what is the use then if we get right back to where we started from?

And without firm support from the bishops and diocesan liturgical offices, I don’t really see how all of this gets enforced. Comments anyone?
 
So far, I’m the one person who’s voted “no biggie” and “little change.”

I honestly don’t think most people understand half of what is said in the Mass anyway, and I’m talking about the OF Mass, not the Latin Mass.

Keep in mind that I’m a convert to Catholicism from evangelicalism, and I am speaking from that perspective.

It seems to me that so many Catholics endured CCD and Confirmation classes because they had no choice, and the instant they were confirmed, they quit going to Church until something (often a baby) drew them back. Or perhaps they continued attending Mass out of obedience to their parents, but they didn’t really pay much attention. They never bothered to read the Bible or any book about the faith, and never listened to any of the Church’s excellent teachers. Seminar? Mission? Bible Study? HA HA! Why would any of these Catholics go to church when they didn’t have to?!

So they know less about their Church than most Protestants know about it. They mumble their way through the Mass parts, too ashamed to admit that they don’t know them by heart.

So I’m guessing that many of the parishioners will not even notice that something has changed. I still see people who are surprised when they have to stand up for the prayer asking God to “accept the sacrifice at your hands…” prayer. This tells me that they haven’t been at Mass for at least five or six years.

It’s sad, isn’t it?
 
Cat said:
So far, I’m the one person who’s voted “no biggie” and “little change.”

I honestly don’t think most people understand half of what is said in the Mass anyway, and I’m talking about the OF Mass, not the Latin Mass.

Keep in mind that I’m a convert to Catholicism from evangelicalism, and I am speaking from that perspective.

It seems to me that so many Catholics endured CCD and Confirmation classes because they had no choice, and the instant they were confirmed, they quit going to Church until something (often a baby) drew them back. Or perhaps they continued attending Mass out of obedience to their parents, but they didn’t really pay much attention. They never bothered to read the Bible or any book about the faith, and never listened to any of the Church’s excellent teachers. Seminar? Mission? Bible Study? HA HA! Why would any of these Catholics go to church when they didn’t have to?!

So they know less about their Church than most Protestants know about it. They mumble their way through the Mass parts, too ashamed to admit that they don’t know them by heart.

So I’m guessing that many of the parishioners will not even notice that something has changed. I still see people who are surprised when they have to stand up for the prayer asking God to “accept the sacrifice at your hands…” prayer. This tells me that they haven’t been at Mass for at least five or six years.

It’s sad, isn’t it?
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:(Sadly, I agree, Cat.
 
I said mileage will vary, because obviously it will. I expect that those who really think about what the exact words are will find the new translation theologically rewarding, yet many will be like the average parishioner that Cat mentions and not really notice. I do think they will be some backsliding of verbiage by priests, but I am going to assume good faith on their part, and chalk it up to old habits instead of some active rebellion. I wish there was more of that sometimes.
 
It will depend…my parish has already been doing teaching regarding it. And that most of it is good. I however don’t like the change to “under my roof” It’s just clumsy and doesn’t make as much sense to me.

Of course my husband will go through RCIA this year learning the old parts…and then they will change it on him…😦

What will happen, I predict, is that a lot of the chreasters (only go Christmas and Easter) will be really suprised on Christmas 2011.

To me…you either know what the Mass is…and are reverent…or you aren’t. I can’t see where some wording tweaks are going to change that. It’s more for the people that are already reverent.🤷
 
Is there anyway we can get our hands on the New Missal before Nov. 27, 2011?

I’d love to read it before hand to get familiar with it and such.
 
With any change there will be complaints as people have to buy new books and memorize new versions of prayers, also the more complex sentences and poetic forms will be appreciated my a minority (I like them). I think in the US they will like the new penetential and Easter Baptism renewal prayer options, celebrations Thanksgiving, Independence Day, and Saints Damien of Molokai, Katharine Drexel, and Elizabeth Ann Seton, and the Mass for Giving Thanks to God for the Gift of Human Life (January 22).
 
Vico said:
With any change there will be complaints as people have to buy new books and memorize new versions of prayers, also the more complex sentences and poetic forms will be appreciated my a minority (I like them). I think in the US they will like the new penetential and Easter Baptism renewal prayer options, celebrations Thanksgiving, Independence Day, and Saints Damien of Molokai, Katharine Drexel, and Elizabeth Ann Seton, and the Mass for Giving Thanks to God for the Gift of Human Life (January 22).
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From what I’ve read from the new translation, I like it. It’s different from what I’m used to, but beautiful. I’m trying to memorize it now. Seeing that I want to be a priest, I was already happy because I had everything memorized, now I have to re-learn it in a way. But I like it.

I thought it was odd that they removed the act of contrition and changed the wording of the creed.
usccb.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf
 
Oh I firmly believe that the Novus Ordo mass was perfectly reverent before these un-necessary changes and is already filled with deeply theological sacred language and resolutely believe that they are un-necessary at best and at worst making a liturgy that is equal in reverence to any other liturgy in the past to lose some of what made it the best thing to come out of the 60s.
:rolleyes:
 
SalesianSDB said:
From what I’ve read from the new translation, I like it. It’s different from what I’m used to, but beautiful. I’m trying to memorize it now. Seeing that I want to be a priest, I was already happy because I had everything memorized, now I have to re-learn it in a way. But I like it.

I thought it was odd that they removed the act of contrition and changed the wording of the creed.
usccb.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf
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Someone explained to me that the “I believe” was added to make the English sentences have and explicit subject. The Latin subject is implied by “et”.

**Credo in unum Deum … **
Et in unum Dominum …
Et in Spiritum Sanctum …
Et unam, sanctam, catholicam …

I do not understand what you mean that the act of contrition was removed. I still see it in Penitential Act, Form A (Confiteor):
usccb.org/romanmissal/samples-people.shtml
 
I voted for “opportunity for catechesis” and “significant change”.

As with any and all changes, there is an opportunity for learning, growth, and internalization of the changes. But will parishes take the initiative? Will individual Catholics?

But regardless of whether they prepare or not, or catechize or not, this is a big change, and it will have a big impact.
 
I voted for Prime Opportunity for Catechesis as well as Significantly Change etc.

Bring it! 👍
 
Dave_in_Dallas said:
I’ve read over the new missal to be introduced in the US in 2011. I believe it will put some reverence back into the Mass. What affect (if any) do you think it will have on the US church?
Click to expand...
I think those who are already knowledgeable in Catholic teaching and faithful to the Church will appreciate having a more accurate translation. Those who hadn’t paid close attention to the meaning and the scriptural references found in the prayers of the Mass may want to learn more about them.

I think those who don’t know the faith well, but are trying their best to be faithful to the Church will find it difficult to adjust to the new translation- but it may inspire them to want to learn more about their faith.

I think those who know the faith well and are not faithful to the Church will feel like the Church has taken a big step backwards, and will resent it. Most people in this crowd will continue living and teaching in a way that is at odds with the Church- it just might be more difficult for them to do so.

I think those who do not know the faith well, and are not faithful to the Church will be confused for awhile, but they won’t let it get to them (maybe they just won’t say the responses at Mass anymore). Mass for them will be as it always has been- something they do (as long as it isn’t too inconvenient) to make the parents and/or grandparents happy.
 
In reply to the #7 post:

The new version:

“Lord, I am not worthy
that you should enter under my roof,
but only say the word
and my soul shall be healed.”

is a literal translation of the Latin:

“Domine, non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum, sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea.”
 
This is only my opinion and I’m saying it very politely: I don’t much care for the new translation. I’ll go along with it because that’s what the Church will be using and I also understand that it is literal and more faithful to the original, ect; however, I just think it comes across as clunky.
 
Beachcomber said:
This is only my opinion and I’m saying it very politely: I don’t much care for the new translation. I’ll go along with it because that’s what the Church will be using and I also understand that it is literal and more faithful to the original, ect; however, I just think it comes across as clunky.
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Here is the story Luke 7, which will allow you to appreciate the translation used, which shows the great faith of the centurion:

NAB
[1] When he had finished all his words to the people, he entered Capernaum. [2] A centurion there had a slave who was ill and about to die, and he was valuable to him. [3] When he heard about Jesus, he sent elders of the Jews to him, asking him to come and save the life of his slave. [4] They approached Jesus and strongly urged him to come, saying, “He deserves to have you do this for him, [5] for he loves our nation and he built the synagogue for us.” [6] And Jesus went with them, but when he was only a short distance from the house, the centurion sent friends to tell him, “Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you enter under my roof. 7] Therefore, I did not consider myself worthy to come to you; but say the word and let my servant be healed. [8] For I too am a person subject to authority, with soldiers subject to me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come here,’ and he comes; and to my slave, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 9] When Jesus heard this he was amazed at him and, turning, said to the crowd following him, “I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith.”

Rhiems-Challoner
[1] And when he had finished all his words in the hearing of the people, he entered into Capharnaum. [2] And the servant of a certain centurion, who was dear to him, being sick, was ready to die. [3] And when he had heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the ancients of the Jews, desiring him to come and heal his servant. [4] And when they came to Jesus, they besought him earnestly, saying to him: He is worthy that thou shouldest do this for him. [5] For he loveth our nation; and he hath built us a synagogue. [6] And Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent his friends to him, saying: Lord, trouble not thyself; for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof. [7] For which cause neither did I think myself worthy to come to thee; but say the word, and my servant shall be healed. [8] For I also am a man subject to authority, having under me soldiers: and I say to one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doth it. [9] Which Jesus hearing, marvelled: and turning about to the multitude that followed him, he said: Amen I say to you, I have not found so great faith, not even in Israel.
 
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