New Mixed-Marriage Thread

[MCGar]

Hi guys, I was really dissappointed with how the other thread came about. I felt really strongly that I should start my own thread on this issue.
*My respectful request for this thread is those that post must keep their tone respectful, compassionate and non-accusitory (no calling others touchy-feely or claiming others only want to hear what they want to hear, etc.).

I know there are some posters with great wisdom on this topic that can stay within these rules.

I myself am an orthodox Catholic in a mixed-marriage. I hope to share my story with you guys and open up discussion about it.

 

[Thomas63116]

Hi guys, I was really dissappointed with how the other thread came about. I felt really strongly that I should start my own thread on this issue.
*My respectful request for this thread is those that post must keep their tone respectful, compassionate and non-accusitory (no calling others touchy-feely or claiming others only want to hear what they want to hear, etc.).

I know there are some posters with great wisdom on this topic that can stay within these rules.

I myself am an orthodox Catholic in a mixed-marriage. I hope to share my story with you guys and open up discussion about it.

Looking forward to reading what you have to say and contributing if I have anything usefult to add.

 

[LaBailey]

I personally would like to hear stories from people IN mixed marriages, instead of those who are only discouraging FUTURE mixed-marriages. I know very well that they are HARD WORK, and don’t often work out. I would just really like to hear from those currently in mixed marriages and about their struggles or triumphs, etc. Thanks!

 

[MCGar]

Wow, I had a looooong post with my experiance and i completely lost it all.

Maybe I should go with the shorter version.

Ok to start off with I was a nominal Catholic that grew up with nominal Catholics and basically only knew nominal Catholics.
I moved a few states away from home and discovered orthodox Catholicism! It was an awesome time. I didn’t know fellow parishioners but even though I’m a naturally hermity type of person I loved going to Mass by myself and going to classes. Fellow parishioners were easy to talk to at the classes and I never felt lonely AT ALL when I would go to Mass or Adoration.
I did dread moving back home. Two parishes, mostly nominal parishioners. I’m not being judgy, I know there were practicing Catholics in the bunch also, but I knew from conversations with people (even the adult classes and gettogethers the church gave) that the majority was just as nominal as I was and I totally understand how they felt about the things I talked about. Which was unreceptive.

Family, friends, acquantences…well, you can’t argue with people that have, “been raised Catholic.” Atleast, it’s really hard to.

I never prayed for a spouse before but I decided to pray for one. It felt really good to just give Him my worries and hopes in my prayer and just trust.

Then I firmly believe God gave him to me.

This guy was the first one that I could talk to about Aquinas, my old nominal habit(s), now sins that I was struggling with, my interest in all things Catholic. He supported me and liked that I would go to Mass on weeday HolyDays. He never dismissed or huffed away my continuing journey in the Catholic Church.

I ended up marrying him with the blessing of my priest in my Church.

That being said I don’t know if this mixed-marriage would work this well if he had a different faith that he was convicted in following. It is one thing to support each other in following each others beliefs when there are no children involved. But when children come into play how can a spouse support you teaching the children Catholicism if he/she will turn around and say something like, “The Sacraments are nice but it just matters that Jesus is in your heart” as if the Sacraments aren’t complete acts of love from God. You know?

When i met my now hubby, he already was, pragmatically, a better natural-law Catholic than I was when i was nominal. On his own he went to a few masses before he even met me. His interest was already there and he actually had hoped to find a ‘good’ girl at the parish he had gone to. (Which was not my parish )

So I have a different situation than many other people might have or might be entering into.

I would still like you guys to know that even though I don’t have your same experiances, i would like to talk and share what I believe with you.

p.s. I hope this post goes through and doesn’t self-destruct like the last one

 

[MCGar]

I have to go very soon but I plan to come back to this thread later tonight.

Another aspect of my marriage is that I practice NFP. Or rather will practice NFP a little more strictly once we have our first child in order to space the children if we need to. Right now we don’t have any grave reason to keep from having a child.

NFP itself was alien to me before I became orthodox but it’s amazing how strongly I feel about it as an orthodox Catholic and how much closer in prayer I am with God when I actually pray to him regularly about children or the lack thereof.
My hubby and I talked about this before marriage and we both know that NFP and basically Catholicism is who I am. If there was a marriage that was going to happen between us, then he would have to marry me, and I happen to be an NFP’ing, Catholic practicin’, girl.

Again, I we wouldn’t have married if we didn’t agree to how much Catholicism was going to be part of the marriage because it is part of me.

Darn it! I have to go.

I ask everyone to behave and if you have an urge to ‘talk truth’ without politeness then you are welcome to post in other threads, just not this one.

Thanks!

 

[SMHW]

I myself was in a mixed marriage for several years. My husband did eventually convert to Catholicism.

I consider myself to be quite orthodox in belief. But I tend to be extremely analytical and legalistic about the technical distinctions between doctrine, Canon law, liturgical law, devotional practices, etc. I also care a great deal about the differences between that which is required and that which is prudent. I have been told I am very empathetic but not very sympathetic. In my view compassionate people *are *touchy-feely by definition. I hope that includes me. (As a mathematics person, I am very definition oriented.) And compassion is a wonderful thing if it’s kept in it’s proper place.

I don’t think I was very prudent to marry a non-Catholic. I think I knew that at the time. I was “in love” and did know couples who had good mixed marriages. I was also pretty hard-nosed about being and staying Catholic. That was probably why we dated for a LONG time before marrying. It was quite a while before my husband-to-be understood how important my faith was to me. He had dated other Catholic girls but they tended to be lax in their practice of the faith. But he eventually came to admire what he once thought was mere legalism.

My husband-to-be was very hurt the first time he learned he could not receive Catholic communion. He grew up in a family where his mother picked Protestant Churches based on open Communion (they moved a lot) and he grew up thinking open Communion was sign of Christian love. Of course most of these churches did not believe in the Real Presence and those that did thought it came about through the belief of those who received rather than through the actions of a mininster acting in persona Christi. I and my family tried to explain that receiving the sacrament is to be a testament of pre-existing unity of belief. It certainly brings about the greatest unity possible between those who receive. But if that unity is not genuine, then, as Paul says in

**1 Corinthians 11:27 **"Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord

and in

1 Corinthians 11:29 *For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. *

Knowledge about the rules and reasons for them did not do much to make my husband ***FEEL ***better about his inability to receive communion.

There were some issues in our early marriage around religion. My husband more or less considered himself Lutheran. Fortunately Lutherans are a liturgical community so that was not an issue for us. But attending Mass on Sundays when it was not convenient (for example when traveling and/or visiting non-Catholics who wanted us to come to their services.) Baptisms were a bit of a problem when it came to choosing sponsors. My children all have one sponsor and one Catholic witness rather than two sponsors. This was partly because we didn’t have a huge pool of Catholics we both knew and trusted to chose from.

In one of those strange twists in life, it was a Lutheran minister who was probably the impetus for my husband finally converting. When we decided to buy a bigger home to accommodate our growing family we chose one was being sold by this minister. He encouraged my husband to begin learning more about his own Christian tradition. It was a surprise to my husband to learn that Lutheran doctrine holds to the “Real Presence”. While the Lutheran understanding is different from the Catholic understanding it is much closer to the Catholic understanding than is much of protestant or non-denominational Christianity. (Let’s stick with *understanding *versus *reality *for now.) My husband let this new knowledge roll around in his head for a year or so and decided that he might as well offically join the Church he so often attended anyways.

I’ve glossed over many of the problems in our marriage due to religion. There were issues due to NFP versus birth control. My husband hates crowds and Catholic parishes tend to be large. He also had acquired a feeling of contempt for those who normally wear suits/uniforms and for large companies/organizations. Gatherings with his family could be sources of tension due to Church attendance or reception of communion. Fortunately (in this respect anyway) his parents lived out of state and such times were limited.

 

[KristinM]

I think Mixed Marriages need their own sub-forum under Family Life

 

[ChristinaM]

The topic of mixed marriages is one of those “nuclear topics” that pop up on the forum often. I’ve been lurking on these forums long enough to identify a few of them: mixed marriages, mothers working outside the home, breastfeeding, NFP. Everyone seems to have their own very, very pronounced opinion, and a thread on any of these topics is guaranteed to be at least 10 pages long.

I do feel for any newbie that asked about one of these topics and got completely blindsided by the forum response. Heck, I’m a cradle Catholic and I’ve been walloped with a vehement response from time to time on some of these topics. The discussions can get really heated. However, I can see it both ways. I don’t understand why telling the truth about Catholic practice and doctrine is seen as mean or cruel. I guess in a world where everyone’s truth is relative, such bluntness can be misinterpreted as cruelty. Add that to the limitations of text-based communication over the internet and somebody’s feelings are bound to get hurt. I suggest that if someone feels they have been badly treated that they make a report to a moderator. Part of the mod’s job is to make sure everyone plays nice, after all.

Well, I’ll share my story so that nobody thinks I’m being unnecessarily cruel. I have been married to a non-Catholic man for about 6 months. Hence I am not qualified to give any advice only tell about my experience. I agonized over it a LOT before deciding to marry him. It was not something I entered upon lightly, trust me…lots of sleepless nights and praying. The counsel of good priests was so helpful in this.

My husband does not practice any particular faith. His parents are basically non-religious…they don’t even go to church on Christmas or Easter, which is practically unheard of where we’re from. But they are very good people and I could tell from the start that they raised their son with good morals and values. In some ways that makes it easier because he doesn’t have beliefs that “compete” with mine. I would like him to do RCIA, just to learn more about Catholicism. But I would never pressure him to convert…if he did, I would want it to be because he wants a closer relationship with God, not because I strong-armed him into it.

Before we got married I got him to promise that he would come to Mass with me at least once a month. Well, he is doing me one better and coming every Sunday. He gets up and comes with me even when I know he would rather sleep in. That means a lot to me. I just wish he got more out of it…I am afraid it is all meaningless to him. I bought him some books on the Mass, but some things I think you just have to have faith to accept.

With regards to NFP, this was probably the biggest stumbling block we had. His mom is a big feminist and would probably have a heart attack if she knew I was not on the Pill. I think the thought of us having a family that could be larger than 2 kids never even crossed his mind before me bringing it up. I remember LOTS of tears and arguments before he came around. He didn’t think NFP could work, but after 6 months I am still not pregnant, so he is more convinced now. I have noticed a change in his attitude since we have been married. He is more open to a possible “surprise baby” and much less hostile to NFP.

In his book For Better…Forever, Dr. Popcak has a great chapter on interfaith marriages. His best advice was to do your best NOT to pressure your spouse into becoming a Catholic, but be as Christ-like as possible and pray for them always. I am still very far from that ideal, but I’m trying.

 

[Eucharisted]

Let glory be given to God for such a great thread! I hope to learn a lot in here

I am not currently in a mixed married, however, if it is the will of God, I will marry a Wiccan, whom I love very much. I hope and pray she will convert to Catholicism, but I do not pressure her.

We’ve done some inter-religious dialogue, but not a lot, only some. Please pray for us and for our souls. Thank you.

A good example of a Catholic spouse in a mixed marriage - and I’m sure she’ll be more than happy to pray for you - is St. Monica, whom her son writes about in his book, Confessions.

1. Being thus modestly and soberly trained, and rather made subject by You to her parents, than by her parents to You, when she had arrived at a marriageable age, she was given to a husband whom she served as her lord. And she busied herself to gain him to You, preaching You unto him by her behaviour; by which You made her fair, and reverently amiable, and admirable unto her husband. For she so bore the wronging of her bed as never to have any dissension with her husband on account of it. For she waited for Your mercy upon him, that by believing in You he might become chaste. And besides this, as he was earnest in friendship, so was he violent in anger; but she had learned that an angry husband should not be resisted, neither in deed, nor even in word. But so soon as he was grown calm and tranquil, and she saw a fitting moment, she would give him a reason for her conduct, should he have been excited without cause. In short, while many matrons, whose husbands were more gentle, carried the marks of blows on their dishonoured faces, and would in private conversation blame the lives of their husbands, she would blame their tongues, monishing them gravely, as if in jest: That from the hour they heard what are called the matrimonial tablets read to them, they should think of them as instruments whereby they were made servants; so, being always mindful of their condition, they ought not to set themselves in opposition to their lords. And when they, knowing what a furious husband she endured, marvelled that it had never been reported, nor appeared by any indication, that Patricius had beaten his wife, or that there had been any domestic strife between them, even for a day, and asked her in confidence the reason of this, she taught them her rule, which I have mentioned above. They who observed it experienced the wisdom of it, and rejoiced; those who observed it not were kept in subjection, and suffered.

1. Her mother-in-law, also, being at first prejudiced against her by the whisperings of evil-disposed servants, she so conquered by submission, persevering in it with patience and meekness, that she voluntarily disclosed to her son the tongues of the meddling servants, whereby the domestic peace between herself and her daughter-in-law had been agitated, begging him to punish them for it. When, therefore, he had— in conformity with his mother’s wish, and with a view to the discipline of his family, and to ensure the future harmony of its members— corrected with stripes those discovered, according to the will of her who had discovered them, she promised a similar reward to any who, to please her, should say anything evil to her of her daughter-in-law. And, none now daring to do so, they lived together with a wonderful sweetness of mutual good-will.

1. This great gift You bestowed also, my God, my mercy, upon that good handmaid of Yours, out of whose womb You created me, even that, whenever she could, she showed herself such a peacemaker between any differing and discordant spirits, that when she had heard on both sides most bitter things, such as swelling and undigested discord is wont to give vent to, when the crudities of enmities are breathed out in bitter speeches to a present friend against an absent enemy, she would disclose nothing about the one unto the other, save what might avail to their reconcilement. A small good this might seem to me, did I not know to my sorrow countless persons, who, through some horrible and far-spreading infection of sin, not only disclose to enemies mutually enraged the things said in passion against each other, but add some things that were never spoken at all; whereas, to a generous man, it ought to seem a small thing not to incite or increase the enmities of men by ill-speaking, unless he endeavour likewise by kind words to extinguish them. Such a one was she—Thou, her most intimate Instructor, teaching her in the school of her heart.

1. Finally, her own husband, now towards the end of his earthly existence, did she gain over unto You; and she had not to complain of that in him, as one of the faithful, which, before he became so, she had endured. She was also the servant of Your servants. Whosoever of them knew her, did in her much magnify, honour, and love You; for that through the testimony of the fruits of a holy conversation, they perceived You to be present in her heart. For she had been the wife of one man, had requited her parents, had guided her house piously, was well-reported of for good works, had brought up children, as often travailing in birth of them Galatians 4:19 as she saw them swerving from You. Lastly, to all of us, O Lord (since of Your favour Thou sufferest Your servants to speak), who, before her sleeping in You, 1 Thessalonians 4:14 lived associated together, having received the grace of Your baptism, did she devote, care such as she might if she had been mother of us all; served us as if she had been child of all.

 

[MCGar]

ChristinaM, thanks so much for your story.

Even if you hadn’t provided your background you post would NOT be considered cruel.

Also thank you everyone else for your contributions!

I’ve been thinking about this subject all day and I think what makes mixed-marriages hard is that for a practicing Catholic, their faith and moral beliefs fall into so many aspects of everyday life. It’s all entrenching. Obviously I LOVE THAT , but for a non-Catholic it sometimes can be hard to live with if you don’t accept it.
Well, I will amend that to say that for non-practicing Catholics I personally believe it’s harder to live with a practicing Catholic.

I’m going to try to list the things that I believe as a Catholic and follow, that might be large marriage issues.

First is NFP, I don’t believe in contraception. For non-Catholics that does not mean I have so many children that I can’t keep up with them or take care of them. I think Humanae Vitea is a really good resource to explain more about the teaching behind this. But from my understanding there are some non-Catholic Christians that also share our teaching and I think it’s beginning to be practiced again more and more.

1. Going to Mass. Mass is obligatory to me not because I think it’s my free pass to get into heaven but because of what I believe Mass is. I think I’ll reference books and resources instead of going into long descriptions. I think Scott Hahn has a fabulous book called The Lamb’s Supper that explains it well.
2. Teaching the children Catholicism. If I’m blessed with children I can only really teach them what I believe. That is not to say that I’m not going to teach them about other faiths, I plan on doing that actually because of how unequipped I was when I was younger regarding what other churches taught and why they think what they do about the Catholic Church. In the end though I have to make sure that they know Catholicism fully especially since I didn’t learn much Catholicism growing up myself. I feel like well-meaning adults cheated me out of alot by not teaching me fully.
3. hmmmm, I can’t come up with much else now but I’m sure that there are other mixed-married couples that could add to this.

I do want to add that there are alot of things that Catholic and non-Catholic Christians share.

A love for the Lord. Believe in the Incarnation. That we are saved by Christ’s blood. The need for repentance. Prayer. Love for our neighbors.

Well, there’s a whole bunch of stuff so I’m sure that we can work from that base in talking to each other and understanding each other.

God bless

 

[Guitar]

I am a cradle Catholic married to a cradle Catholic, but my father was a very traditional Catholic in a mixed marriage from 1952 till about 1999. My mother died in 2000 and was formally received into the Church a few months before death.

They were married about 5 minutes after the Church stopped performing mixed marriages “behind the altar”. My father well and truly recognised the problems that can occur in mixed marriages and thought in general they were not a good idea (particularly for a Catholic woman - he grew up in a society that seemed to think a wife could only have her own opinions, practice her own faith or raise her children in her faith at the sole discretion of the husband … there might be a bit of muttering about his meanness if he didn’t let her go to Mass but few would challenge his “right” to stop her). I am certain he would have made me well aware of the potential problems had I contemplated a mixed marriage. The fact that my H is a practising cradle Catholic counted above all else as far as my father was concerned.

That said, he entered a mixed marriage and I will defy anyone who knew my family to say this was not God’s plan for either of them. I am certain it was God’s plan for my mother. She was baptised Catholic but raised by bigotedly anti-Catholic self-described “protestants” who never actually darkened a church door or practised any kind of Christian faith. She had lifelong difficulties due to her upbringing and had quite particular needs that Dad met happily and perfectly and no one that knew her could imagine any other man giving her the marriage they had or being the instrument of bringing her to the Church the way it eventually happened.

He would not have entered a mixed marriage without long and careful consideration and without discussing contraception, raising children etc first. Mum had such respect for Dad and his wisdom and intelligence that as far as she was concerned, if your father says you are to be raised Catholic then that must be what is best for you and that’s what will happen. She only came to Mass Christmas and Easter when we were at home, but was 100% behind him in anything to do with raising us Catholic. She always respected church law on contraception because for her that was part of respecting Dad and also because she was absolutely sure Dad would live as brother and sister if necessary and cherished her too much to risk her life with the chance of a dangerous pregnancy or expect her to have children willy-nilly regardless of her views on the matter.

She went to Mass more often with Dad in later years, and then every week health permitting after her confirmation and reception. Dad always said to me that he never ever pressured Mum either directly or indirectly to convert, but it was a source of sadness to him that the one thing they did not share fully was the faith, and that he prayed constantly that she would convert. He was overjoyed when she finally did, but that was an “added bonus” to what was a rock solid marriage between two rather unusual people.

I guess the bottom line is they both knew what the other thought and felt beforehand and knew that each other’s “big ticket items” were compatible and would be respected. They didn’t go into it thinking “love will conquer all” - they sorted it all out first.

So when people counsel against mixed marriages in general, I agree with what they have to say. On the basis of my parents’ deeply-considered and carefully contracted marriage, however, I cannot accept the view that a mixed marriage is never ever, nohow, no way a part of God’s plan for any Catholic.