"New Moon"

[lil_flower_luv]

I confess to feeling at a loss.

Folks here already see Edward as controlling and stalking, watching Bella as she sleeps, and doing other stuff. He exposes her to mortal danger because of his own enemies. If he loved her, he would end the relationship to prevent her from being attacked by things that go bump in the night.

Even at a human level, the relationship is not good.

Add the deep evil darkness of undeath to the mixture.

What is there to like? What is the allure of all this badness? Is it the misplaced nod to chastity?

Another point to look at is the fact that they don’t have a true, pure relationship. She is infatuated with Edward and even a little with Jacob. That is not a way to start any good relationship.

 

[Marycruz]

Another point to look at is the fact that they don’t have a true, pure relationship. She is infatuated with Edward and even a little with Jacob. That is not a way to start any good relationship.

Exactly. She always goes on and on about how beautiful Edward is, as if it was enough to fall in love with someone. At least with Jacob her feelings evolve from a friendship.

 

[shannyk]

I confess to feeling at a loss.

Folks here already see Edward as controlling and stalking, watching Bella as she sleeps, and doing other stuff. He exposes her to mortal danger because of his own enemies. If he loved her, he would end the relationship to prevent her from being attacked by things that go bump in the night.

Even at a human level, the relationship is not good.

Add the deep evil darkness of undeath to the mixture.

What is there to like? What is the allure of all this badness? Is it the misplaced nod to chastity?

I so agree with this assessment. I don’t get it, the whole story. I don’t see romance, I see dysfunction. her relationship with her father, mother, and Edward. All very dysfunctional.

Reminds me of that Police song, Every breath You Take. When it came out everyone took it as this so romantic song and Sting was perplexed that people would take it that way seeing as it’s about a controlling, stalker type.

I also don’t get the whole chastity bent…doing things to entice and arouse each other isn’t exactly what I call chaste.

I know it’s fiction and as an adult I can see it for what it is and I can read it, no harm done. For the teen and pre teen crowd, I don’t think they will see that…an adult definitely needs to point it out and discuss it with their kid if they let them read it.

The movies I think are all about gorgeous Edward really. And you have to admit, he is a good looking boy.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Exactly. She always goes on and on about how beautiful Edward is, as if it was enough to fall in love with someone.

 

[creationlover]

Folks,

Thank you so much for your responses. My son (12yrs old) asked me to start this thread for him. I coached him through “Twilight”, a couple of weeks back, and he was actually disappointed. For his boyish 12 year old mind, it was too “romantic”. He is interested in New Moon for the action that is supposed to be in it.

My wife is not at all interested in it, and has asked if I do coach him through New Moon, that we rent it later so as not to give so much money to the company who made it.

After reading your responses, he seems a little less interested in it. I think the whole reason he asked me to start this thread is because he is still trying to find his place with it.

Thank you so much. If anyone has further comments, I certainly invite them.

 

[Sierrah]

Folks,

Thank you so much for your responses. My son (12yrs old) asked me to start this thread for him. I coached him through “Twilight”, a couple of weeks back, and he was actually disappointed. For his boyish 12 year old mind, it was too “romantic”. He is interested in New Moon for the action that is supposed to be in it.

My wife is not at all interested in it, and has asked if I do coach him through New Moon, that we rent it later so as not to give so much money to the company who made it.

After reading your responses, he seems a little less interested in it. I think the whole reason he asked me to start this thread is because he is still trying to find his place with it.

Thank you so much. If anyone has further comments, I certainly invite them.

If he’s looking for something to read have him check out the Hardy Boys Mysterys…those are completely safe. Or maybe even CS Lewis.

 

[tedfay]

I’d also recommend Lord of the Rings. He might be young for some of the later Harry Potter books, but otherwise I’d recommend that.

Also highly recommend Lensman series by EE Doc Smith (science fiction). They were written with young boys in mind.

 

[NotCrazyDan]

I hated the Hardy Boys so much. My mother piled them up in front of me and had me read them because she thought that they were age-appropriate.

Forget about being age-appropriate. I had read every book that Tolkein had ever written by the 7th grade. Give him something with some meat.

 

[DrPiano]

Depending on his reading level, I’d suggest either Tolkien or CS Lewis. CS Lewis is awesome and has way more books than the well known Narnia series. I happened to enjoy his Space Trilogy. Tolkien is awesome - and he’ll gain an incredible vocabulary from reading it - but learning that many new words can make reading challenging if he’s not already an avid reader. I was an avid reader and read Lord of the Rings when I was approximately his age, but I know others who have been turned off - so really, you just have to know your kid.

I’ve not read the Twilight books, but they don’t look at all interesting to me - in part because of the stalker aspect of Edward and in part because it seems to turn into a bit of an obsession with people who like the books (I know a few). I do, however, disagree with the analysis that any book portraying a vampire as a hero is somehow intrinsically evil. Is it problematic for certain people? Absolutely. But I grew up in a family where even the slightest hint of something “bad” was banned - and I’ve learned that hysteria like that is usually a bit excessive (I was banned from Little Mermaid, My Little Pony, CareBears, Gummi Bears, Fraggle Rock… the list goes on and on - mostly because something or other in them was “evil”). Vampires are mythical - in a way similar to the dwarves of Tolkien or the wizards of Harry Potter. What they seem to do in these books (which I admit I haven’t read) is provide a new look at certain concepts - namely chastity. Their take may not be completely catholic - or completely accurate - but it provides a different vantage point - and it can start a discussion when read by the right people.

Kind of reminds me when someone was trying to convince me that Star Trek was evil because it is based in a world where extraterrestrial life is a reality - and even worse gasp those aliens aren’t Christian.

 

[Sierrah]

Depending on his reading level, I’d suggest either Tolkien or CS Lewis. CS Lewis is awesome and has way more books than the well known Narnia series. I happened to enjoy his Space Trilogy. Tolkien is awesome - and he’ll gain an incredible vocabulary from reading it - but learning that many new words can make reading challenging if he’s not already an avid reader. I was an avid reader and read Lord of the Rings when I was approximately his age, but I know others who have been turned off - so really, you just have to know your kid.

.

The only readable LOTR book to me was Return of the King and I could barely get through it because of the dry way it was written the the charactors seem so wooden to me and not at all real but to each his own.

Oh by the way I loved Fraggle Rock…

 

[SophieG]

I so agree with this assessment. I don’t get it, the whole story. I don’t see romance, I see dysfunction. her relationship with her father, mother, and Edward. All very dysfunctional.

I agree. I’ve read every Twilight book and seen New Moon, although not the first book. And I just don’t get the attraction. **Skip the next sentence if you don’t want the end of the series spoiled:
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I think that at the end of the series, Edward comes out as terribly selfish. He thinks that by turning Bella into a vampire, he’ll damn her to Hell. But he decides to change her anyway, so that he can live with her for as long as they are both alive. His pleasure on Earth is more important to him that her eternal soul.
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Spoiler over

Plus, I don’t think Edward is good-looking at all. And Jacob reminded me too much of a friend of mine.

 

[iluvmybabies]

Ummm. I haven’t seen the movies or read the books, but I have read abou them - and for many, many years I was a devotee of fantasy stories, including many different vampire stories. I have a very good working knowledge of the history and evolution of the vampire genre. I have abandoned watching these kinds of movies for very good reason.

I urge you in the strongest possible terms to avoid these movies. I’ll explain why below.

In these “Twilight” stories we are talking about an intimiate relationship of a living girl with a vampire, regardless of whether or not that relationship is chaste. However, chastity is a nice way of putting some icing on what is pretty dark here. So is Edward’s refusal to drink the blood of humans.

No matter how you define vampires in a particular fantasy world, they all have some common properties. The biggest one is undeath. A state of “immortality” that is somehow conntected to being neither dead nor alive. The classical view of a vampire (Braham Stoker) is that the vampire is the personification of evil on earth (the prince of darkness), and Satan is where the vampire gets his powers. In another genre, the first vampire was Cain (as in the guy who murdered Abel). Other genres have other stories regarding the origin and nature of vampires.

They all have one thing in common. Vampires are undead. (Hence, Edward’s rather gray pall to show that his is not really alive). They also have a *tendency *towards reveling in the darkest forms of evil, regardless whether or not there is a rare “hero” vampire that has some inkling of morality. After all, Edward has to fight his urges.

Undeath contradicts directly the resurrected, glorified body that Christ intends for us on the last day. You are also looking at a choice that excludes God by its nature, because the vampire is neither dead nor alive, and God is the God of the living, not of the dead. Christ Himself said so.

Becoming a vampire is much more than some lifestyle choice. It is a choice to accept a reality other than God, and that conclusion is unavoidable because of the basic nature of vampires - undeath - no matter how you sugar coat their darkness with tales of castity and self denial.

Ironically, the addition of chastity and self denial make these movies much worse than the original vampire movies. Dracula was at least repulsive and clearly evil, and the hero was there to fight him and defeat him. Now, vampires have become objects of pity, poor tortured creatures who should be accepted - especially when they try hard - and the very heroes we are supposed to root for.

“Tolerance” is the watchword in Hollywood. However, tolerance by itself is not a virtue (you don’t tolerate child molesters, for example). Now, “tolerance” is being used to force people to accept all kinds of evils. Now this notion of tolerance is finding itself into even the darkest forms of evil - such as a choice to accept vampirism over the Gospel of Life.

This type movie is the work of the Devil, who constantly tries to twist the Truth around by using virtues like chastity and self denial to mask a dark evil of directly being away from God. This being away from God is implicit to the nature of vampirism - and whether or not the movies hides this state (or don’t address it) is irrelevant, because nothing can change the fact that vampires are antithetical to God.

What I’m trying to say is, the movies use the virtues of chastity and self-denial to mask the most direct and darkest evil of all - being separated from God. If that is not the work of the Father of Lies, I don’t know what is.

So, even if vamprism is inflicted, the very subject matter deals with the darkest of evils. I urge everyone NOT to see this movie, to abandon the series, not read the books, and rather spend that time contemplating the Truth of the Blessed Sacrament - and to encourage others to do the same.

God Bless,

First of all to tolerate vampirism, would mean to actually believe in it…I don’t believe vampires are real…Do I believe the devil is real yes, do I believe demons are real, yes…Do I believe GOD is real, yes…And because I see a scary movie or a movie of vampires I don’t turn away from GOD…Not at all…And as long as you can explain to your children the truth and fakeness of the situation there shouldn’t be any problems…??? It’s another fantasy movie about a fantasy world, made to entertain people…Does it cloud the mind and the soul??? I don’t see how…I still believe in GOD I still pray to HIM and I still love GOD…am I slowly turning away from HIM? UHM nope I don’t think so…I hope to live in peace with HIM soon through Holy Matrimony, all my children are baptised and 2 have done their First Communion, one is still too young, lol maybe next year he’ll be ready!

Perhaps you are right and those whom might find themselves clouded and doubting GOD and wanting to find other answers might want to change their minds about watching or reading such things…It might actually draw them further from GOD…Hey anything can happen you know? So you do have a good point…

As for me, I think they are enjoyable and fun to watch…I watched the first one and can’t wait to see the second one! I am into fantasy stuff though so I guess that’s why I like these!

Well that’s my :twocents:

GOD BLESS!

 

[tedfay]

ilovmybabies,

I understand what you are saying, that basically there’s a disconnect between fantasy and reality. I’m also a fantasy fan, so I know what you are saying.

However, the problem is exposing yourself or kids to things that are objectively bad - for what purpose? Enjoyment? Why should anyone derive enjoyment from dysfunctional relationships where the protagonist is undead? That’s like saying it’s OK to watch simulated satanic rituals. Why is that not disturbing? Similarly, should we watch lots of movies with simulated extreme violence (assuming violence is the point)? If you say that it doesn’t bother you because it’s simulated, then isn’t there something wrong here?

There’s plenty of research out there showing the negative effects on kids of violence on TV. Just google it. Along the same vein, adults dwelling on dark things engenders dark thoughts and often causes us to dwell on things that are not good.

Isn’t it better to dwell on things that are good? Why watch things that are dark and ugly and unredeeming when we can watch things that are good and redeeming.

At least fantasy stories like Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter involve the protagonists being good guys opposing the bad. Violence is forced upon the good guys, and they have to deal with it.

In stories like Twilight or the leser known Elric of Melnibone, the protagonist is intrinsically bad - no matter how he is dressed up or covered with icings of some virtues (like chastity in the case of Twilight). It’s akin to watching crime shows where the protagonist is the thief and you are hoping he will get away with his crime. Just leaves you feeling a little dirty inside.

Ideas have power and can influence the real world, even if those ideas came out of a fantasy story.

Fundamentally, Twilight makes the idea of choosing undeath (by becoming a vampire and marrying Edward) romantic and desirable. Such a choice is anathama to God, who is the God of the living. How is enjoying this kind of thing good?

I say no. I will only support and view movies and other media that are written from the perspective of the light and that support the light.

Here’s another way I look at it.

When I die and go to my final judgement, I don’t want to justify to God that I took pleasure in the adventures of Edward the Undead, even if he was a fantasy.

God Bless,

 

[SophieG]

In stories like Twilight or the leser known Elric of Melnibone, the protagonist is intrinsically bad - no matter how he is dressed up or covered with icings of some virtues (like chastity in the case of Twilight). It’s akin to watching crime shows where the protagonist is the thief and you are hoping he will get away with his crime. Just leaves you feeling a little dirty inside.

For the record, Edward is not the protagonist of Twilight. He’s not even present for a large part of the series. Bella is the protagonist.

 

[Carjack1]

First of all to tolerate vampirism, would mean to actually believe in it…I don’t believe vampires are real…Do I believe the devil is real yes, do I believe demons are real, yes…Do I believe GOD is real, yes…And because I see a scary movie or a movie of vampires I don’t turn away from GOD…Not at all…And as long as you can explain to your children the truth and fakeness of the situation there shouldn’t be any problems…??? It’s another fantasy movie about a fantasy world, made to entertain people…Does it cloud the mind and the soul??? I don’t see how…I still believe in GOD I still pray to HIM and I still love GOD…am I slowly turning away from HIM? UHM nope I don’t think so…I hope to live in peace with HIM soon through Holy Matrimony, all my children are baptised and 2 have done their First Communion, one is still too young, lol maybe next year he’ll be ready!

Perhaps you are right and those whom might find themselves clouded and doubting GOD and wanting to find other answers might want to change their minds about watching or reading such things…It might actually draw them further from GOD…Hey anything can happen you know? So you do have a good point…

As for me, I think they are enjoyable and fun to watch…I watched the first one and can’t wait to see the second one! I am into fantasy stuff though so I guess that’s why I like these!

Well that’s my :twocents:

GOD BLESS!

 

[iluvmybabies]

ilovmybabies,

i understand what you are saying, that basically there’s a disconnect between fantasy and reality. I’m also a fantasy fan, so i know what you are saying.

However, the problem is exposing yourself or kids to things that are objectively bad - for what purpose? Enjoyment? Why should anyone derive enjoyment from dysfunctional relationships where the protagonist is undead? That’s like saying it’s ok to watch simulated satanic rituals. Why is that not disturbing? Similarly, should we watch lots of movies with simulated extreme violence (assuming violence is the point)? If you say that it doesn’t bother you because it’s simulated, then isn’t there something wrong here?

no even fake satanic rituals are not something i enjoy nor will ever enjoy watching…i do not watch that stuff…this however doesn’t make me think about the " oh weak girl and overly possessive undead guy!" it makes me think about how a girl whom has had a rough child hood both parents separated, trying to start a new life, falls for someone whom is different in every way, they share a special connection in which she feels dependent on him and he feels a need to protect her from himself! As weird as it seems, i think it’s entertaining…i got into a relationship with my exhusband because i wanted to save him!!! Lol teach him about life and love and family something he knew nothing of! I find this movie entertaining…just like i found harry potter entertaining…and star wars as well…for that matter why watch any tv at all? They are all fake, portraying things that aren’t that are etc…why watch the news, it’s full of violence and gossip all the time, another catastrophe, the world is a catastrophe…i just like the movies they are entertaining the fantasy of something that’s not real that’s all it is to me…

there’s plenty of research out there showing the negative effects on kids of violence on tv. Just google it. Along the same vein, adults dwelling on dark things engenders dark thoughts and often causes us to dwell on things that are not good.

honestly kids learn violence from home, their surroundings, so that means that kids shouldn’t be allowed in their homes or surroundings… That’s like back in the days before tv was around, there were still murderers and rapists and satanists, whom did they learn that from, the clouds???

isn’t it better to dwell on things that are good? Why watch things that are dark and ugly and unredeeming when we can watch things that are good and redeeming.
i dwell on things that are good not on things that are bad… I think the movies are entertaining, i don’t think about them nor lose sleep over them…i just think the jacob kid, or wolf kid he gave her the wolf story in the first one, was a great guy for her, but that’s just me, she chose the guy with the mysterious past and present and future, instead of the “innocent looking one”, kind of like many girls choose the “bad guy” in real life! The guy whom hides himself when the sun comes out, and is fighting against his own demons! I think it’s entertaining…

at least fantasy stories like lord of the rings or harry potter involve the protagonists being good guys opposing the bad. Violence is forced upon the good guys, and they have to deal with it.
yeah i like them too! :d

in stories like twilight or the leser known elric of melnibone, the protagonist is intrinsically bad - no matter how he is dressed up or covered with icings of some virtues (like chastity in the case of twilight). It’s akin to watching crime shows where the protagonist is the thief and you are hoping he will get away with his crime. Just leaves you feeling a little dirty inside.
well it’s kind of like interview with a vampire, it’s a bad vampire trying to live a normal life versus a really bad vampire whom loves and embraces his badness! I found that entertaining too!

ideas have power and can influence the real world, even if those ideas came out of a fantasy story.
i am not trying to be a vampire! Lol nor want to be one…besides if we were meant to live forever here on earth god would have made it so…i am looking forward to living all eternity with god in heaven, god willing i get to go to heave! :d

fundamentally, twilight makes the idea of choosing undeath (by becoming a vampire and marrying edward) romantic and desirable. Such a choice is anathama to god, who is the god of the living. how is enjoying this kind of thing good?
i never said it was good, i just said the movie was entertaining…lol

i say no. I will only support and view movies and other media that are written from the perspective of the light and that support the light.

Here’s another way i look at it.

When i die and go to my final judgement, i don’t want to justify to god that i took pleasure in the adventures of edward the undead, even if he was a fantasy.

well i hope god looks at it and says at least you weren’t out doing drugs or nurdering or something worst!

god bless,

god bless!

 

[tedfay]

For the record, Edward is not the protagonist of Twilight. He’s not even present for a large part of the series. Bella is the protagonist.

That makes it worse, because now we are focused upon her choices that are, by the very nature of wanting to become a vampire, contrary to God’s will (in the hypothetical fantasy).

It also focuses upon a young lady that is choosing her infatuation of a very dangerous man with stalker like tendencies, because he is “perfect,” over a healthier relationship with a man who might help her get closer to Christ.

Again, why is this material good or helpful? Even if it’s “just entertainment,” then why should we pollute our minds with this stuff when plenty of other exciting fantasy stories have very redeeming qualities?

 

[Carjack1]

That makes it worse, because now we are focused upon her choices that are, by the very nature of wanting to become a vampire, contrary to God’s will (in the hypothetical fantasy).

It also focuses upon a young lady that is choosing her infatuation of a very dangerous man with stalker like tendencies, because he is “perfect,” over a healthier relationship with a man who might help her get closer to Christ.

Again, why is this material good or helpful? Even if it’s “just entertainment,” then why should we pollute our minds with this stuff when plenty of other exciting fantasy stories have very redeeming qualities?

There are redeeming qualities. Chastity, Choosing Life, Friendship, Over coming prejudices vampires vs werewolves. Those are the qualities I took from this book. I do not think my mind is polluted because that is what I walked away with. There are a lot of symbolic things as well. The Cullens (Christians) are choosing to live a morally correct life while living amongst vampires of their kind (Athiest/Agnostics) who suck the blood out of humans. That must be very hard to live in that environment (our world)

 

[SophieG]

I should probably clarify that I am not a fan of Twilight. I think the plot is weak and most of the characters have few redeeming qualities. I just don’t think that the series would be harmful to most adults and older teens.

 

[tedfay]

There are redeeming qualities. Chastity, Choosing Life, Friendship, Over coming prejudices vampires vs werewolves. Those are the qualities I took from this book. I do not think my mind is polluted because that is what I walked away with. There are a lot of symbolic things as well. The Cullens (Christians) are choosing to live a morally correct life while living amongst vampires of their kind (Athiest/Agnostics) who suck the blood out of humans. That must be very hard to live in that environment (our world)

Redeeming qualities are irrelevant where the underlying theme is about longing to choose permanent separation from God. Although the movie does not cast the plot in this manner, and puts all that nice icing on top, wanting to become undead is - by definition - anathema to choosing life.

We are being fooled by the “redeeming” qualities. The apple might be shiny on the surface, but is rotten at the core.

Why would we want to dwell on this repulsive subject matter and call it entertainment?