New Movie: The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies

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MarcoPolo said:
I often don’t agree with Gredanus’ reviews, but I frequently read them because he does provide useful information. I think he is much more character driven in his reviews and I am much more storyline driven. In other words, I think I can tolerate flatter characters if the story is clever, well-paced, ironic, or has a nice twist. Greydanus goes in very deep to the maturity or journey of personal development of characters way more than me. :o
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You know, I’m probably the same way. I tend to be more storyline driven as well.

I finally got to see the movie over the weekend. I really enjoyed it. I totally missed how they pretty much dropped Dain from the film at the end there. It did feel like there was some element missing from the ending, but I didn’t think about what it was. That was it.

Maybe in the extended version. 😛
 
As someone who read the Hobbit book and the Lord of the Rings trilogy as a young child, the movies all disappointed me. I loved the books and couldn’t find any faults in them but the movies were all very different to me The Lord of the Rings movies were just downright cheesy and that’s as far as I’ll go into that because it’s off topic.

The Hobbit movies are terribly paced and have so many cheesy gags that weren’t in the books. The pacing is probably the side effect of lengthening a short novel into 3 long movies. I didn’t like most of the stuff Jackson added in, but in the Battle of the Five armies I did enjoy the fight scenes between the Orc leaders and Fili, Kili, Thorin, Tauriel and Legolas. I liked how all their separate fights intertwined and they saved each other. Although I thought the very end of Thorin’s fight was a bit lame(the bit with the guy grabbing him from under the ice…) and I don’t think that was in the book. I hated the running gag with the greedy advisor guy and the bardsman. At first it was good but it went on so long and got so lame. Maybe if it had a resolution where the man redeemed himself or something it’d have been decent.

But overall, the Battle of the Five Armies was the best of the movies. The Desolation of Smaug was terribly paced and the cat and mouse fight with Smaug in it was so lame. They should have just stuck to the book with that but Jackson seems to hate the books even though they are 10x better than his work. The thing that really emphasises how lame the movie’s cat and mouse chase with Smaug was is the fact that they melted the statue onto him only for him to fly out and shake it off. That dumb scene was literally just there so they could show off their special effects. But at least that wasn’t as bad as the isometric parts of the chase. They really, really should have just stuck with the book. Bilbo’s interactions with Smaug in the book was so cool. They really ruined it in the movie.
 
Sarcelle said:
I did not like the movie portrayal of Thranduil. In the book, Thranduil showed compassion for the starving people of Laketown and overall was a caring king, not a heartless and greedy psychopath.
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I didn’t like it either. It bothered me quite a bit actually. In the book, Thranduil was a good king, and his people were described as good folk. I can be quite forgiving of differences between films and books, but I am not forgiving when the essence of the character is changed.
 
iepuras said:
I didn’t like it either. It bothered me quite a bit actually. In the book, Thranduil was a good king, and his people were described as good folk. I can be quite forgiving of differences between films and books, but I am not forgiving when the essence of the character is changed.
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PJ gave Faramir the same character change treatment, as well, and probably for much the same reasons–to create tension in the story for a film audience. I’m not saying I approve of these changes–not at all, but I do believe I understand what he was trying to do. The thing is, PJ angered the fan base by doing these changes, and gave those who haven’t read the books the wrong impression of the characters in order to make his film “stronger.” I don’t believe either was necessary–and it makes me wonder how much PJ really understands Tolkien’s writings–certainly not at their deepest core. He caught the grandeur of MIddle Earth and human element, but missed some of the most important themes, sad to say. How I’d have loved to see someone who does “get it” make these films. 🤷
 
Della said:
PJ gave Faramir the same character change treatment, as well, and probably for much the same reasons–to create tension in the story for a film audience. I’m not saying I approve of these changes–not at all, but I do believe I understand what he was trying to do. The thing is, PJ angered the fan base by doing these changes, and gave those who haven’t read the books the wrong impression of the characters in order to make his film “stronger.” I don’t believe either was necessary–and it makes me wonder how much PJ really understands Tolkien’s writings–certainly not at their deepest core. He caught the grandeur of MIddle Earth and human element, but missed some of the most important themes, sad to say. How I’d have loved to see someone who does “get it” make these films. 🤷
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I agree.

PJ may be an atheist and would have missed the Catholic nuances of the books.

I knew I did when I was an atheist.

Disclaimer: I read somewhere that PJ is an atheist. It may or may not be true.
 
I seen it in 3-D, I thought it was snowing in the cinema.🙂 The movie was OK.

Who did the Dragon represent? :eek:
 
Sarcelle said:
I agree.

PJ is an atheist and would have missed the Catholic nuances of the books.

I knew I did when I was an atheist.
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Which is also why the intelligencia in academic circles don’t “get” Tolkien’s writings, either, and why they think of his books as silly fairy tales that no grown up can take seriously and won’t give him any credit for his wonderful literary accomplishment.

Tolkien’s books are imbued with his Catholic faith. Those who can’t see that, or dismiss that, indeed miss the whole point. PJ tried hard, but the spiritual aspects are only accidentally there instead of being at the heart, which is why the films don’t quite work.
 
i’m in the ‘loved the books, hate the movies’ camp. but i watch them because the stories are so good. i feel this way about most books to movies, i don’t think the director, producer or actors give a dang about the books, and today’s movie audience barely know how to read, so it’s a win-win for hollywood.:cool:
 
Della said:
PJ gave Faramir the same character change treatment, as well, and probably for much the same reasons–to create tension in the story for a film audience. I’m not saying I approve of these changes–not at all, but I do believe I understand what he was trying to do. The thing is, PJ angered the fan base by doing these changes, and gave those who haven’t read the books the wrong impression of the characters in order to make his film “stronger.” I don’t believe either was necessary–and it makes me wonder how much PJ really understands Tolkien’s writings–certainly not at their deepest core. He caught the grandeur of MIddle Earth and human element, but missed some of the most important themes, sad to say. How I’d have loved to see someone who does “get it” make these films. 🤷
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I absolutely hated the treatment PJ gave Faramir! There was plenty of tension in the story anyway and with how long all the movies were, PJ could have done without the Faramir-related tension. Thranduil didn’t bother me nearly as much in DOS. Thranduil is an antagonist in the book and elves can be “baddies” so I certainly wasn’t expecting or demanding Thranduil to be all warm and fuzzy. I was hoping for the warmth of Thranduil to come out in the end, especially at the funeral of Thorin which was shockingly missing from the movie (maybe it is being saved for the extended version?). There was a teeny tiny glimmer of Thranduil’s warmth in his last exchange with Tauriel. It didn’t bother me so much as I watched the film, but now that I’ve had almost 2 weeks to think about it, it bothers me more.

I am a convert to Catholicism (and Christianity), and it has been a while since I picked up Tolkein, so there were probably a lot of things I didn’t get back then. I did pick up the Hobbit before seeing this last film and I am currently reading the Silmarillian again. I get it so much more than I did before. There are a lot of things I like with PJ’s vision, but there are things he simply didn’t get.
 
Della said:
Which is also why the intelligencia in academic circles don’t “get” Tolkien’s writings, either, and why they think of his books as silly fairy tales that no grown up can take seriously and won’t give him any credit for his wonderful literary accomplishment.

Tolkien’s books are imbued with his Catholic faith. Those who can’t see that, or dismiss that, indeed miss the whole point. PJ tried hard, but the spiritual aspects are only accidentally there instead of being at the heart, which is why the films don’t quite work.
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I completely agree. Tolkein had an indirect influence in my conversion. His books are loaded with truth and are far from “silly fairy tales”. Even before my conversion, I could see how his books were filled with his Catholic faith, even though I didn’t quite understand it.

I still think that the Fellowship of the Ring is the best of all the films. PJ was successful with that one and then engaged in excess in the rest of the films because he could get away with it.
 
Della said:
PJ gave Faramir the same character change treatment, as well, and probably for much the same reasons–to create tension in the story for a film audience. I’m not saying I approve of these changes–not at all, but I do believe I understand what he was trying to do. The thing is, PJ angered the fan base by doing these changes, and gave those who haven’t read the books the wrong impression of the characters in order to make his film “stronger.” I don’t believe either was necessary–and it makes me wonder how much PJ really understands Tolkien’s writings–certainly not at their deepest core. He caught the grandeur of MIddle Earth and human element, but missed some of the most important themes, sad to say. How I’d have loved to see someone who does “get it” make these films. 🤷
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Right. It would be neat to see another take on making Tolkien films from someone who “gets it”. I think it will probably be some time before anyone attempts to remake LotR or the Hobbit, though. And my expectation that they would understand Tolkien more than PJ is not that high.

I think the films do make wonderful commercials for the books, though. 🙂 LotR was one of those books that was perpetually on my maybe-I’ll-read-that-some-day list. It wasn’t until the Fellowship movie that I finally sat down and read them. So they did help at least one person become a Tolkien fan who otherwise would not have been. 🙂
 
Joe_5859 said:
You know, I’m probably the same way. I tend to be more storyline driven as well.

I finally got to see the movie over the weekend. I really enjoyed it. I totally missed how they pretty much dropped Dain from the film at the end there. It did feel like there was some element missing from the ending, but I didn’t think about what it was. That was it.

Maybe in the extended version. 😛
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I didn’t remember the book well enough to remember the Dain ending so I didn’t even notice that. 😛 But I agree - I enjoyed the movie and I bet the video release will be full of extras. This was the only one of the 3 Hobbit movies I think I would buy. Although I’m tempted to buy #2 just because I felt the “best” of the whole thing was from about the time Bilbo encounters Smaug through movie #3.
 
Did anyone else think the Bard character was one of the best fatherly characters in a movie in a while. I don’t watch that many movies, so maybe there are more. But in a mainstream movie, how often any more do you see a heroic, self-sacrificing, widowed and still family-oriented (his family is constantly on his mind even as he fights), protective, honorable manly man?
 
MarcoPolo said:
I didn’t remember the book well enough to remember the Dain ending so I didn’t even notice that. 😛 But I agree - I enjoyed the movie and I bet the video release will be full of extras. This was the only one of the 3 Hobbit movies I think I would buy. Although I’m tempted to buy #2 just because I felt the “best” of the whole thing was from about the time Bilbo encounters Smaug through movie #3.
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I’m waiting for an Amazon deal on the box set of all three Extended Editions. 😛

(Well, I will probably get the theatrical edition of TBOTFA as soon as it comes out … but I’m not going to be in a rush to get the EEs. Wait for a good price.)
 
MarcoPolo said:
Did anyone else think the Bard character was one of the best fatherly characters in a movie in a while. I don’t watch that many movies, so maybe there are more. But in a mainstream movie, how often any more do you see a heroic, self-sacrificing, widowed and still family-oriented (his family is constantly on his mind even as he fights), protective, honorable manly man?
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Actually the same actor played a remarkably similar role in his other film Dracula Untold. 🤓
 
I just wish there was more Hobbit in these Hobbit movies.

It’s a shame when a superb actor like Martin Freeman is cast, but then totally underused. His parts where the best in all three movies. I’d say the riddle scene from the first is the best thing found in all six Tolkien films.
 
Rhubarb said:
I just wish there was more Hobbit in these Hobbit movies.

It’s a shame when a superb actor like Martin Freeman is cast, but then totally underused. His parts where the best in all three movies. I’d say the riddle scene from the first is the best thing found in all six Tolkien films.
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Me too. PJ caught carried away with Thorin’s story. We needed to see things more from Bilbo’s perspective, since he was supposed to be the central character.
 
Or at the very least, less elves. I didn’t mind Kate from Lost but Orlando Bloom was completely necessary. That time could’ve been much better used giving it to Bilbo.
 
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