New outreach to Catholics as Biden meets with Cardinal Timothy Dolan in New York

[bellasbane]

Theoretically maybe but the reality is that these terms have changed substantially. The Democrat party is FAR different than the one I grew up with. Somehow I cannot imagine John Kennedy or even Lyndon Johnson condoning the wholesale slaughter of the innocent yet abortion under the guise of “reproductive rights” was CELEBRATED at the DNC.

The Democrat party today is far more libertine than libertarian. While the Libertarian platform is rather vague on the issues of abortion, the actual Libertarian politicians have teneded to be socially quite conservative. Killing babies isn’t the same as letting someone smoke pot. So you see the major Libertarians like Ron Paul espousing an anti-abortion stance and not conflicting with the focus of non-government intereference.

Ron Paul is not a pure libertarian. That’s simple enough to accommodate without having to change the term “libertarian” to mean something else. Isn’t that the point Justice Roberts was making only the other day with regard to marriage?

The Democratic party is far different because it has become more libertarian with regard to issues of personal liberty than it was in the past. The Republican party has changed too. An Eisenhower Republican is nothing like a Tea Party Republican.

YOU may claim that not allowing a woman to kill her unborn baby is “interference” but someone like Ron Paul believes that one of the few roles for the government is to protect the people…even the little people.

Lisa

Just because I have the capacity to articulate a point of view does not mean I endorse that point of view. If you want to argue about whether or not I got “Biden right” is fine, but lets not get personal.

 

[LisaA]

Ron Paul is not a pure libertarian. That’s simple enough to accommodate without having to change the term “libertarian” to mean something else. Isn’t that the point Justice Roberts was making only the other day with regard to marriage?

The Democratic party is far different because it has become more libertarian with regard to issues of personal liberty than it was in the past. The Republican party has changed too. An Eisenhower Republican is nothing like a Tea Party Republican.

Just because I have the capacity to articulate a point of view does not mean I endorse that point of view. If you want to argue about whether or not I got “Biden right” is fine, but lets not get personal.

As you said, there are few if any “pure” Libertarians. However since the FOCUS of Libertarians is fiscal rather than social views, they are far more in line with the Republican party than the high tax, large government, regulation nation Democrats of today. Social issues are minor in the world of Libertarians and a significant segment of Republicans as well. Although many claim the Tea Party is obsessed with women’s reproductive systems, it was initiated as Taxed Enough Already and was focused on the Obama Administration’s desire to raise taxes and enact government control of healthcare.

Both parties have changed significantly, on that I agree. I was raised a liberal Democrat and suspect I may have voted for Jimmy Carter . But I also changed and can no longer accept the economic and physical carnage of their platform and legislation.

As to your second statement YOU claimed that opposition to abortion was “interference” in women’s reproductive rights so please stand by your comment or renounce it.

Lisa

 

[bellasbane]

As you said, there are few if any “pure” Libertarians. However since the FOCUS of Libertarians is fiscal rather than social views, they are far more in line with the Republican party than the high tax, large government, regulation nation Democrats of today. Social issues are minor in the world of Libertarians and a significant segment of Republicans as well. Although many claim the Tea Party is obsessed with women’s reproductive systems, it was initiated as Taxed Enough Already and was focused on the Obama Administration’s desire to raise taxes and enact government control of healthcare.

People are free to call themselves whatever they want. That doesn’t mean they are using the label correctly. Social issues are not minor to Libertarians, they are minor to some fiscal hawks who call themselves Libertarians.

My use of “libertarian” is consistent with the standard definition of the term.

Both parties have changed significantly, on that I agree. I was raised a liberal Democrat and suspect I may have voted for Jimmy Carter . But I also changed and can no longer accept the economic and physical carnage of their platform and legislation.

Then you are a classic conservative.

As to your second statement YOU claimed that opposition to abortion was “interference” in women’s reproductive rights so please stand by your comment or renounce it.

Lisa

I stand by all my comments:

“Biden may truly believe that the government does not have the authority under the Constitution to infringe upon a woman’s reproductive rights or deny marriage to same sex couples.” forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10548128&postcount=16

and

Just because I have the capacity to articulate a point of view does not mean I endorse that point of view. forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10548442&postcount=20

 

[Lormar]

Wow…I guess none. This much I know. You can’t find common ground on an untruth, but that being said, good luck with discussing the common ground the Church of Christ may have with people promoting the slaughter of the innocent and the abomination of gay “marriage”. The Church cannot change her teaching just to accommodate these poor souls. Charity is in all actuality telling them the truth, even if it’s painful.

Bottom line…common ground is needed but not at the expense of truth. Have a fruitful discussion…I’m out of here.

God Bless and Happy Holy Week

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I am glad Cardinal Dolan is not of the same mind and clearly cares about maintaining a dialog with the Obama administration. I am sure he would not have welcomed Biden to his church if he did not believe the Vice President was acting in good faith.

I believe Cardinal Dolan is compelled to extend the invitation by virtue of his position. Is he likely to convince the Obama administration to change positions on the health care mandate or gay marriage? As likely as a blue moon during a lunar eclipse.