New Patriarch for the UGCC!

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ConstantineTG said:
Amazing that they elected someone so young and one who doesn’t reside in Ukraine. Does this mean God is calling on the Ukrainian Church to fulfill her role to the world beyond Ukraine? I am hopeful that this is the start that the Byzantine Rite would grow in more places.
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Not so sure. He is still a Ukrainian. He was born in Ukraine and some of his education was in Ukraine. When the ethnic Churches start elevating not ethnic bishops and metropolitians and such then we will see such a growth. That is IMHO.

Which is why I, currently, am against us Ruthenians from doing what has been suggested in this thread as we are predominately a non-ethnic Church in the United States.
 
Aramis said:
Not while in union, no. But prior, they were Kyivan Orthodox, cut off by a border change…
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I am not so sure about that.

There is ample reason to believe that the Rusyn (or the main area where they live) were evangelized as a result of the Moravian mission from the west, or even from the Bulgarian mission from the south (Romania was part of the khanate at the time) before the K’yivan church got started. I am more inclined to believe this.

Of course, it is also possible that the Rusyn lived further to the east and migrated into the region (perhaps due to the Tatars or Magyars passing through), so they might have converted through the K’yivan church anyway. This would agree with what you are saying.

It’s just not very clear.

But the modern north American Ruthenians are a combiination of many people besides the Rusyn, including Hungarians, Slovaks, Czechs, Croatians etc. and I find it hard to believe that all of these people living south of the Carpathian mountains were once part of the Rus peoples and were evangelized through the conversion of saint Volodymyr.
 
ByzCath said:
Not so sure. He is still a Ukrainian. He was born in Ukraine and some of his education was in Ukraine. When the ethnic Churches start elevating not ethnic bishops and metropolitians and such then we will see such a growth. That is IMHO.

Which is why I, currently, am against us Ruthenians from doing what has been suggested in this thread as we are predominately a non-ethnic Church in the United States.
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But where would they get that at this point in history? Even my own Bishop is ethnically Ukrainian through and through, even though he was born and raised in Canada. HB Sviatoslav at least has experience being outside of Ukraine, and is fluent in 5 languages. Of course the Ukrainians will be his primary agenda, but I believe (and this is my personal opinion) that he has a pulse of the international community and that growing the Church beyond Ukrainians is in the cards. It will not happen immediately, he’s 41, it will happen in due time.
 
Formosus said:
To my understanding, the ruthenian dioceses were never part of the kyiv metropolitanate.
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I was told by a Melkite once that the two jurisdictions were separated in America in order to prevent an individual Eastern sui juris Church from becoming more populous than the Latins in Pennsylvania, which according to some silly decision of one of the Councils of Baltimore would have prevented the Latins from having a territorial archdiocese.

Anybody know if there’s any truth behind this, or what he might have been talking about?
 
Cecilianus said:
I was told by a Melkite once that the two jurisdictions were separated in America in order to prevent an individual Eastern sui juris Church from becoming more populous than the Latins in Pennsylvania, which according to some silly decision of one of the Councils of Baltimore would have prevented the Latins from having a territorial archdiocese.

Anybody know if there’s any truth behind this, or what he might have been talking about?
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That may have been the case in America. I was referring to what Hesychios mentioned. That, before the union, the Rusyn eparchies were not under the Kyiv metropolitanate.
 
Well someone posted the video today’s Enthronement of the new Patriarch of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, Sviatoslav Shevchuk, in the Ukrainian Catholic Sobor (Cathedral) in Ukraine’s capital on the website Vimeo to which I will now link for those interested in watching a Ukrainian Catholic ceremony. The ‘play-by-play’ is in Ukrainian but the pictures and singing seem wonderful. The Church is not fully completed inside as you will note, but this is a historic moment. I’m going to watch it now. Have a look. Here is the link:

vimeo.com/21545484
 
Cecilianus said:
I was told by a Melkite once that the two jurisdictions were separated in America in order to prevent an individual Eastern sui juris Church from becoming more populous than the Latins in Pennsylvania, which according to some silly decision of one of the Councils of Baltimore would have prevented the Latins from having a territorial archdiocese.

Anybody know if there’s any truth behind this, or what he might have been talking about?
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In the United States, the immigrants from the Rusyn areas of the Carpathian mountains of Slovakia, Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, and Romania formed parishes of the Greek Catholic Church, but due to political conflicts related to Hungarian and Ukrainian interests, two exarchates were eventually created (in 1924) from these people by the Vatican. These became eparchies in time.

1924 Ukrainian Exarchate USA 1924 – Bishop Constantine Bohachevsky (U)
1924 Ruthenian Exarchate USA 1924 – Bishop Basil Takach (R)
1924 Apostolic Exarchate Miskolc (Hungarian)
…
1958 Metropolitan Archeparchy of Philadelphia from Exarchate (U)
1963 Eparchy of Pittsburgh from Exarchate (R)
1969 Archeparchy of Munhall (renamed in 1977 to Pittsburgh) (R)

There is some historical difference of jurisdiction also with the two Churches: Poland (portion that is not in the Ukraine), the union of Brest 1595, and for Hungary, the union of Uzhorod 1646.
 
I just have a question for my own understanding.

I understand that there are two recessions in use here, the Ruthenian and the Ukrainian, am I correct in this understanding?

On a side note, I could see some people welcoming a move like this as it would most likely do away with the RDL.
 
ByzCath said:
I just have a question for my own understanding.

I understand that there are two recessions in use here, the Ruthenian and the Ukrainian, am I correct in this understanding?

On a side note, I could see some people welcoming a move like this as it would most likely do away with the RDL.
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Both of these churches use the Ruthenian recension.
 
ciero said:
Both of these churches use the Ruthenian recension.
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Really? Then is it just the translantions/arrangements by the RDL and the Metropolitan Cantor Institute that make it so different?

It has been awhile since I went to a Ukrainian parish, but I seem to remember that the chant and melodies were a bit different.

It could just be me though as at the time I was also attending a Melkite parish regularly and I know they use a different recession.
 
I think our chants are different, but the general rubrics are the same between our two churches.
 
ByzCath said:
Really? Then is it just the translantions/arrangements by the RDL and the Metropolitan Cantor Institute that make it so different?

It has been awhile since I went to a Ukrainian parish, but I seem to remember that the chant and melodies were a bit different.

It could just be me though as at the time I was also attending a Melkite parish regularly and I know they use a different recession.
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The music is different…it’s not part of the recension…I also should have said…the Ruthenian used to use the Ruthenian recension…until they promulgated the RDL. 😃
 
Question, why are the Bishops dressed differently from one another? I mean, their vestments aren’t exactly like one another, there’s some subtle variations.
 
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