New Poll: Do you think Homosexual Acts are Sinful?

[CMatt25]

This poll is not an accurate measure of the attitudes of non-Catholics, due to small sample size. In addition, since participation on these boards may be skewed in the direction of conservative/traditional Catholics, even those results could be questioned.

True but “may be”?

 

[CMatt25]

He’s got a right to be touchy about this issue; we Catholics are sick of hearing the Church being bashed and mocked in popular culture because of decades-old sex scandals when abuses happen much more often and recently in Protestant churches and elsewhere. We’re sick of being made out to be the kiddie-diddling religion just because the secularist media chooses to blow old Catholic problems completely out of proportion and refuses to report on the same when it happens elsewhere.

If someone keeps poking a dog long enough, he’s going to start growling.

Off topic but just to respond to your post. I think part of the problem is when we have a Church proclaiming to be the one and only true Church, even infallible in some cases on faith and morals and Apostolic successors proclaiming the sanctity of life, and then Apostolic successsors not knowing enough not to cover up child abuse, you’ve got a problem.

 

[CMatt25]

And ambivalent beliefs can lead to inaction, no?

Isn’t there a saying: All it will take for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

Depends on in what context, the type of action and where you want the action to occur.

 

[PRmerger]

Off topic but just to respond to your post. I think part of the problem is when we have a Church proclaiming to be the one and only true Church, even infallible in some cases on faith and morals and Apostolic successors proclaiming the sanctity of life, and then Apostolic successsors not knowing enough not to cover up child abuse, you’ve got a problem.

Matt, I think you’re mixing up orthopraxy with orthodoxy.

The Church cannot err with its orthodoxy (teaching).

But it can indeed err with its orthopraxis (practice of this teaching).

 

[PRmerger]

Depends on in what context, the type of action and where you want the action to occur.

Indeed.

Fanaticism (extreme beliefs) can lead to extremist actions and ambivalence (I don’t really know what’s true and right) can cause evil to prevail.

That’s why we need the Church! No fanaticism or ambivalence–but having things “just right”, like Goldilocks wanted!

 

[Julianna]

Off topic but just to respond to your post. I think part of the problem is when we have a Church proclaiming to be the one and only true Church, even infallible in some cases on faith and morals and Apostolic successors proclaiming the sanctity of life, and then Apostolic successsors not knowing enough not to cover up child abuse, you’ve got a problem.

Thank you Matt. Some forget that “human beings” are falliable…and the Church is “run” by human beings.

 

[Dokimas]

He’s got a right to be touchy about this issue; we Catholics are sick of hearing the Church being bashed and mocked in popular culture because of decades-old sex scandals when abuses happen much more often and recently in Protestant churches and elsewhere. We’re sick of being made out to be the kiddie-diddling religion just because the secularist media chooses to blow old Catholic problems completely out of proportion and refuses to report on the same when it happens elsewhere.

If someone keeps poking a dog long enough, he’s going to start growling.

Are you saying it’s okay to bash because you think you’ve been bashed in the past?

Does Jesus teach ‘eye for an eye’?

 

[CMatt25]

Matt, I think you’re mixing up orthopraxy with orthodoxy.

The Church cannot err with its orthodoxy (teaching).

But it can indeed err with its orthopraxis (practice of this teaching).

PR, no I’m not mixing it up. I don’t know everything but I know that’s the thought process many Catholics use to help them move beyond the scandal. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

Are you saying it’s okay to bash because you think you’ve been bashed in the past?

Does Jesus teach ‘eye for an eye’?

No Doki :console: He said you have heard that but He said turn the other cheek. Don’t you have another cheek? I’d loan you one of mine if I had a spare.

 

[Lycorth]

Are you saying it’s okay to bash because you think you’ve been bashed in the past?

What does that have to do with defending the Church from false accusations?

No one is bashing anything; the facts are that sexual abuse happens much more often in Protestant churches than it does in the Catholic Church.

Don’t believe me? Click here and here for proof. Sexual abuse is reprehensible and needs to be rooted out and stamped out wherever it occurs, but the facts are that the Church is on the low end of the problem.

Does Jesus teach ‘eye for an eye’?

Yes, Jesus did; He and the Father are one and in the Old Testament, Lex Talionis is taught - and has never been rescinded, because it is about a just and merciful response in proportion to a crime (because in the ancient world, punishments far exceeded the offenses - today it is the opposite).

However, pointing out that the Church is being unjustly accused, and that contemporary hotspots of sexual abuse are being ignored in favor of media Catholic-bashing, has nothing to do with Lex Talionis. It’s merely defending the Church, something all too few Catholics have the stones to do these days.

 

[PRmerger]

PR, no I’m not mixing it up. I don’t know everything but I know that’s the thought process many Catholics use to help them move beyond the scandal. Peace.

What exactly do you mean “that’s the thought process many Catholics use”? What thought process do we use?

Admittedly I am a latecomer to the discussion, but I think I’ve followed enough to be able to formulate some thoughts. But I am confused as to what thought process you’re referring.

 

[PRmerger]

No Doki :console: He said you have heard that but He said turn the other cheek. Don’t you have another cheek? I’d loan you one of mine if I had a spare.

Don’t you have 4 of them? Why can’t you loan one???

 

[CMatt25]

It’s merely defending the Church, something all too few Catholics have the stones to do these days.

What are you intending to do with the stones?

 

[Lycorth]

What are you intending to do with the stones?

Defend the Church with them. It’s time for us to pony up or change religions if we won’t defend ours. The lukewarm will be spit from His mouth.

 

[CMatt25]

Don’t you have 4 of them? Why can’t you loan one???

 

[CMatt25]

Defend the Church with them. It’s time for us to pony up or change religions if we won’t defend ours. The lukewarm will be spit from His mouth.

Here we go again. Defining lukewarm Christians.

Well yeah I know you’re gonna defend the Catholic Church with them. But I don’t see how you do that without casting the stones about. You’re not going to just hold them in your hand are you? You don’t think casting a line with honey rather than vinegar might help you catch more? Casting stones only produces for you people beaten and knocked down with small rocks. Knocks them to the ground is all. Doesn’t really help raise them up. What makes you think once hit by stones they are going to want to play with you? All they see is a bully casting stones at them.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Here we go again. Defining lukewarm Christians.

Well yeah I know you’re gonna defend the Catholic Church with them. But I don’t see how you do that without casting the stones about. You’re not going to just hold them in your hand are you? You don’t think casting a line with honey rather than vinegar might help you catch more? Casting stones only produces for you people beaten and knocked down with small rocks. Knocks them to the ground is all. Doesn’t really help raise them up. What makes you think once hit by stones they are going to want to play with you? All they see is a bully casting stones at them.

Really? Because Jesus told people what they wanted to hear all the time? Because Peter and Paul ALWAYS cast a line with honey? It’s not about casting stones…it’s about having some to tell the TRUTH in love…GOD’s TRUTH. And well…if you have a problem with that…too bad. We can’t water down the truth and nor should the Church just so everyone would “feel” better. That’s not love…not true love. And it’s not the kind of love and peace that will last forever.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

And "Thou shalt not commit adultery in the strictest definition, is a bit difficult for the gay person to accomplish since in most places they are not allowed to have a spouse in the first place of which to commit the adultery against.

“Thou shalt not cover thy neighbors wife” in its strictest application doesn’t apply if the gay person is not coveting someone else’s spouse.

Sex forbidden outside marriage if we are including it as a commandment? Then you get into translation and the different beliefs people have and how to legislate belief. But it’s one thing for someone to say they believe homosexual acts are sinful. Entirely something else to make for instance civil unions illegal.

But we are not talking about makeing civil unions illegal…people want to make them LEGAL. And the next step…MORAL. Because too many people think what is legal is moral. NOT SO. Look at abortion…just because it’s legal does not mean it’s morally correct. God says its not moral. Now you can look for all the loopholes you want–as most people do. But you can not say that EVERYONE needs to do that or else they are an extemest. I, personally, think that homesexual acts are sinful as abortions are. That doesn’t mean I can’t hate the sin but love the sinner. I just happen to think that it is NOT love to let them think it is morally correct. Would I walk up to a homesexual person and just tell them that out of the blue? No. But if I had a friend who was homesexual and they asked…yes I would. And I would pray for them.

 

[Lycorth]

Here we go again. Defining lukewarm Christians.

Someone has to.

Well yeah I know you’re gonna defend the Catholic Church with them. But I don’t see how you do that without casting the stones about. You’re not going to just hold them in your hand are you? You don’t think casting a line with honey rather than vinegar might help you catch more? Casting stones only produces for you people beaten and knocked down with small rocks. Knocks them to the ground is all. Doesn’t really help raise them up. What makes you think once hit by stones they are going to want to play with you? All they see is a bully casting stones at them.

Who’s casting stones, now?

Even Jesus called a spade a spade - remember when He called the pharisees vipers and whitewashed tombs? Was Jesus just being a bully or was He being honest?

Instead of assuming that I don’t support being nice to homosexuals in order to save them from slavery to sodomy and sin, you might want to read back a few posts and see that I was talking about having the stones to defend the Church from inaccurate accusations and perceptions about the sex abuse scandal. As for homosexuals, they do need to hear that practicing homosexuality is wrong, a mortal sin, and will lead to Hell if they do not repent of it. Sugarcoating the truth doesn’t impress the truth upon anyone.

 

[CMatt25]

Really? Because Jesus told people what they wanted to hear all the time? Because Peter and Paul ALWAYS cast a line with honey? It’s not about casting stones…it’s about having some to tell the TRUTH in love…GOD’s TRUTH. And well…if you have a problem with that…too bad. We can’t water down the truth and nor should the Church just so everyone would “feel” better. That’s not love…not true love. And it’s not the kind of love and peace that will last forever.

No because Jesus told us not to cast stones and knowing the entire truth about everything depends on how omniscient we are.