New Pope, same old issues

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On my facebook page I was commenting positively about the new Holy Father, when someone brought up the fact that he (actually The Church, but that point would probably be lost) is against gay marriage and gay adoption. I feel I must tread lightly, because the people chiming in are either gay or pro-gay, and also people I am fond of.

First I asked for a source, so that we could have a scope for our discussion, which they didn’t provide, but I’m sure I can look it up.

Anywho, any way you slice it, I don’t see it ending up amiably. Then they brought up birth control…

Thought on a viable response, or should I bother? The only thing is I’m afraid that if I’m silent they will think I agree with them, which would be a sin, yes?
 
Keep it simple, because it is very simple. Just say:

“He is the leader of the Catholic Church, and so considering the Catholic Church is against these issues you bring up, it would logically follow that he is as well. Rather than focus on your disagreements with him regarding religion and morality, why not look at all the positive, beautiful things he’s done for the poor?”
 
Simply say that He is against the systematic murdering of tens of millions of defenseless innocent babies and recreational sex.
 
His entire professional and spiritual life has been to be a part of, and to protect and preserve the Catholic Church, and to live by it’s teachings. In fact, so remarkably, that he is now the Pope. So… is it surprising that he upholds the principles of the Church? What else would he do?

Now, having said that, the Pope also sets the social and political agenda of the Church. Some popes are seen have been better than others through the lens of history. Nobody knows yet what Francis will do in this respect.

Benedict’s great strength was his academic theological acumen, and his intellect. But that distanced him from the average layman, in my opinion. My first opinion of Francis is that he is very much able to connect with the average layman. This may be of great benefit to the Church at this time.
 
You might point out that with the advent of widespread contraceptive use teens having sex has increased, Std’s have increased, marriages have been broken in greater number…what good things has this wrought? Nothing.
 
littlenothing said:
You might point out that with the advent of widespread contraceptive use teens having sex has increased, Std’s have increased, marriages have been broken in greater number…what good things has this wrought? Nothing.
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Uhmmm, 1975 was decades ago, even before the birth of most of the people commenting to the OP on facebook. Contraceptive use is a non-issue for that generation. It has been around longer than they have been.
 
I don’t think it’s a good idea to start preaching to them, honestly.

Like I said… simply state that as the leader of the Catholic Church, of course he’s going to have Catholic morals. And then remind them again that whether they agree with his religious views or not, he is still a man that has done great things for the poor and needy.
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which Pope John Paul II stated is “a sure norm for teaching the faith”, says something about condemning sin as sin or you’re sinning.
Respect for the souls of others: scandal
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2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.
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2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."86 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.87
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2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.
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Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."88 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,89 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.
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2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"90
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Please speak against gay marriage, gay adoption, and abortion if mentioned.
 
The Pope speaks for the Catholic Church, which stands firm in the teachings Christ has handed down to her from Apostolic times. The Pope cannot change any of these teachings (homosexuality, birth control, abortion, cohabitation) any more than she can change Christ’s teachings on murder, theft, adultery, slander, hypocrisy, etc… The Pope is the servant of this truth and can only proclaim it.

I would suggest to the people making the complaints that they focus less on what they cannot change in the Catholic Church and more on what they can change in themselves. If they seek to conform their lives to an unchanging belief system that stands against the winds of secularism and hedonism, then there is only one Church that has been faithful throughout the ages. It has opposed kings and tyrants who were wayward, faced down Communism and won, outlived any political institution on earth, spread throughout the entire world based on a common creed, served the poor throughout the world, setup hospitals and schools throughout the world, and will continue to do all these things until the end of time…all the while proclaiming the same Gospel that she was given 2000 years ago.

Why base your life on the hopeless, lifeless, empty center of yourself?
 
constantconvert said:
On my facebook page I was commenting positively about the new Holy Father, when someone brought up the fact that he (actually The Church, but that point would probably be lost) is against gay marriage and gay adoption. I feel I must tread lightly, because the people chiming in are either gay or pro-gay, and also people I am fond of.

First I asked for a source, so that we could have a scope for our discussion, which they didn’t provide, but I’m sure I can look it up.

Anywho, any way you slice it, I don’t see it ending up amiably. Then they brought up birth control…

Thought on a viable response, or should I bother? The only thing is I’m afraid that if I’m silent they will think I agree with them, which would be a sin, yes?
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As a poster on another thread stated; People, and the media are shocked, and horrified that the Pope is indeed Catholic, and therefore Pro-life, pro-heterosexual, pro-NFP! I supposed they had hoped they could vote on it by cell phone, like American Idol…:yup:
 
constantconvert said:
First I asked for a source, so that we could have a scope for our discussion, which they didn’t provide, but I’m sure I can look it up.
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Are you asking for sources demonstrating that Pope Francis is against gay “marriage” and abortion?
 
Debora123 said:
I don’t think it’s a good idea to start preaching to them, honestly.

Like I said… simply state that as the leader of the Catholic Church, of course he’s going to have Catholic morals. And then remind them again that whether they agree with his religious views or not, he is still a man that has done great things for the poor and needy.
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I think that’s the best way to handle things too. Of course, even tho he disagrees with Gays marrying didn’t he also visit the AIDS hospice and wash the feet of the patients?
 
Margy1948 said:
I think that’s the best way to handle things too. Of course, even tho he disagrees with Gays marrying didn’t he also visit the AIDS hospice and wash the feet of the patients?
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Yep, yes he did.
 
constantconvert said:
On my facebook page I was commenting positively about the new Holy Father, when someone brought up the fact that he (actually The Church, but that point would probably be lost) is against gay marriage and gay adoption. I feel I must tread lightly, because the people chiming in are either gay or pro-gay, and also people I am fond of.

First I asked for a source, so that we could have a scope for our discussion, which they didn’t provide, but I’m sure I can look it up.

Anywho, any way you slice it, I don’t see it ending up amiably. Then they brought up birth control…

Thought on a viable response, or should I bother? The only thing is I’m afraid that if I’m silent they will think I agree with them, which would be a sin, yes?
Click to expand...
Teachings on contraception, divorce, gay demands are what, IMO, keep most people out of churches. But the Church won’t budge, won’t yield to any kind of pressure exerted on her moral teachings, people should understand that and move on. If they want the real deal, they’ll have to start on a road of deep life changes (aka conversion), otherwise they’ll always find other Churches who are, shall we say, less demanding. But at the same time i recognize the extreme difficulties that some face to get right with God.

As for your question, your gay friends/acquaintances/relatives know where you stand on these issues and that you stand by the Church, having a heated argument would probably drive them futher away than they already are from the Church.
 
Robertanthony said:
Teachings on contraception, divorce, gay demands are what, IMO, keep most people out of churches. But the Church won’t budge, won’t yield to any kind of pressure exerted on her moral teachings, people should understand that and move on. If they want the real deal, they’ll have to start on a road of deep life changes (aka conversion), otherwise they’ll always find other Churches who are, shall we say, less demanding. But at the same time i recognize the extreme difficulties that some face to get right with God.

** As for your question, your gay friends/acquaintances/relatives know where you stand on these issues and that you stand by the Church, having a heated argument would probably drive them futher away than they already are from the Church.**
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^Agreed. Especially a heated argument via facebook posts. Ugh, it’s terrible for everyone.
 
Margy1948 said:
I think that’s the best way to handle things too. Of course, even tho he disagrees with Gays marrying didn’t he also visit the AIDS hospice and wash the feet of the patients?
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I will use this info in my response. I just want to show that being against gay marriage doesn’t mean not having compassion for them
 
epan said:
Uhmmm, 1975 was decades ago, even before the birth of most of the people commenting to the OP on facebook. Contraceptive use is a non-issue for that generation. It has been around longer than they have been.
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She said “then they brought up birth control…” why should that not be an issue foe people today? It was before I was born, too, but I don’t know what that has to do with teaching them to look at statistics.
 
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