New possible obstacle for Catholic-Orthodox unity on the sight

[Vaseljen]

In 2016 Orthodox Churches plan to hold the Great Synod.

Patriarch of Belgrade and the Serbs Irenaeus proposed two documents to the Great Synod, which will proclaim Council of Constantinople 880 (Photian) as Ecumenical, and the Council of Constantinople 1351 (Saint Gregory Palama’s Council) to be proclaimed for Ecumenical. Serbian Orthodox Church said that these two Councils proclaimed the truth and that their teachings are accepted by entire Orthodox Church and they fit to be praised as Ecumenical.

We know that Council of Constantinople 880 openly condemns Filioque and papal claim for universal jurisdiction. If these two Councils receive the honor of being Ecumenical in the Orthodox Church, that will be the step away from the unity between the West and the East.

Some bishops from the Church of Greece are already pleased with the Belgrade Patriarchate’s proposal and have already praised the Serbian Patriarch for his actions. Also among the Russian bishops there is also great support for these two documents.

johnsanidopoulos.com/2015/09/serbian-church-proposes-for-recognition.html

 

[Art321]

Hmm…

Interesting…

 

[Starwarsfan2]

WAT , now on universal jurisdiction I agree that it is wrong , but seriously the Filioque is correct.

Anyway still hoping those two churches would unite in my lifetime

 

[Vaseljen]

I think that the Orthodox Church is, maybe, ready to accept Filioque only in this way. Holy Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father, and that Holy Spirit is given to the world THROUGH the Son for the salvation.
And that Pope of Rome must make sure that no Christian in his jurisdiction is tempted to believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son essentially.

But the Orthodox Church would still keep Filioque out from the Creed.

 

[Micosil]

…]
But the Orthodox Church would still keep Filioque out from the Creed.

Which is totally fine. The Eastern Catholic Churches, at least those that re-established communion after the Great Schism of 1054, also don’t have the Filioque clause in their Creeds.

 

[Vaseljen]

Yes, but the Orthodox Church also demands that pope of Rome must reduce his jurisdiction to Italy and that all other matured enough nations gain their own independent churches with patriarchs or popes as their leaders.
Let’s see how Rome solves this one. haha

 

[Peter_J]

WAT , now on universal jurisdiction I agree that it is wrong , but seriously the Filioque is correct.

Lutheranism hath spoken!!!

All rise.

 

[Micosil]

Yes, but the Orthodox Church also demands that pope of Rome must reduce his jurisdiction to Italy and that all other matured enough nations gain their own independent churches with patriarchs or popes as their leaders.
Let’s see how Rome solves this one. haha

I don’t know if that’s what the Orthodox Church wants, but if it’s true, they’ll have to explain away all the Patristic writers that recognized the Primacy of the Petrine See.

 

[Vaseljen]

Maybe God has His own favorite true Church and does not want it mixed up with any other Church to spoil it. Could be any of these Apostolic Churches. Then happens what?

 

[Vaseljen]

I don’t know if that’s what the Orthodox Church wants, but if it’s true, they’ll have to explain away all the Patristic writers that recognized the Primacy of the Petrine See.

And then Orthodox brings any historian and proves that Church had no universal authority. Also Orthodox Church claims that half of those Patristic writers Rome uses as arguments were forged in the 9th century. And then both of these groups continue separated.

But unlike the west-east unity, which i believe is impossible, the unity between the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox is "almost’ achieved. The two Churches years ago signed a document which says that both Churches have preserved the SAME faith which is groundbreaking. Now practical process on the move. Oriental Orthodox Churches in Syria and Egypt must figure out how to merge with the Eastern Orthodox Patriarchates of Antioch and Alexandria. But first Eastern Orthodox Church must resolve it’s own issues at this Synod in 2016.

 

[Peter_J]

… they’ll have to explain away all the Patristic writers that recognized the Primacy of the Petrine See.

Not sure I see what you’re saying. To whom do they need to explain?

Maybe God has His own favorite true Church and does not want it mixed up with any other Church to spoil it.

Interesting. Maybe that’s why God arranged for Roman Catholics to believe in Papal Supremacy, but the Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, and Pentecostals to reject it.

 

[Micosil]

…]

But unlike the west-east unity, which i believe is impossible, the unity between the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox is "almost’ achieved. The two Churches years ago signed a document which says that both Churches have preserved the SAME faith which is groundbreaking. Now practical process on the move. Oriental Orthodox Churches in Syria and Egypt must figure out how to merge with the Eastern Orthodox Patriarchates of Antioch and Alexandria. But first Eastern Orthodox Church must resolve it’s own issues at this Synod in 2016.

That’s interesting. I was under the impression Oriental Orthodox (Coptic Church of Alexandria, etc.) were non-Chalcedonians, though, so how is full communion with EO going to be possible?

 

[Vaseljen]

Not sure I see what you’re saying. To whom do they need to explain?

Interesting. Maybe that’s why God arranged for Roman Catholics to believe in Papal Supremacy, but the Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, and Pentecostals to reject it.

That does not make Roman-Catholics special, all other groups you listed are not in communion with each-other.

 

[Vaseljen]

That’s interesting. I was under the impression Oriental Orthodox (Coptic Church of Alexandria, etc.) were non-Chalcedonians, though, so how is full communion with EO going to be possible?

They are. But they said that they agree that Christ has two natures, they only didn’t want to accept “Nestorian Wording” at the Chalcedon Council. Then the Emperor started persecuting them and they went their own way.

 

[Micosil]

They are. But they said that they agree that Christ has two natures, they only didn’t want to accept “Nestorian Wording” at the Chalcedon Council. Then the Emperor started persecuting them and they went their own way.

Hm, wow, OK, this is all new to me.

 

[Peter_J]

But unlike the west-east unity, which i believe is impossible, the unity between the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox is "almost’ achieved.

Pretty big exaggeration (even with the “almost” in there) if you ask me; but I don’t deny that you guys are considerably closer than we are.

 

[Vaseljen]

Well the two Churches would have to meet at another grand Council and reject each-other condemnations from Chalcidon era. And Orientals would probably accept 5th, 6th, 7th Ecumenical Councils, or maybe 8th and 9th too, if they are accepted as Ecumenical next year. They agree with all that anyway. Monks of Mount Athos insist that Orientals must accept all these Councils, but it is pretty much resolvable.
But this “almost” in Orthodox world goes very slow anyway. Maybe this Oriental/Easter Council would forge another Oros acceptable to the both. Both have already agreed that they keep the SAME faith.

 

[GEddie]

IMNAAHO and only IMNAAHO, only massive worldwide persecution would bring everybody back together. For starters, all obscure theology aside, no-one really seems to want such a reunion.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Ridgerunner]

IMNAAHO and only IMNAAHO, only massive worldwide persecution would bring everybody back together. For starters, all obscure theology aside, no-one really seems to want such a reunion.

ICXC NIKA

My impression is that most Latins do, but I don’t think that’s shared by most Orthodox.

 

[prodromos]

I don’t know if that’s what the Orthodox Church wants, but if it’s true, they’ll have to explain away all the Patristic writers that recognized the Primacy of the Petrine See.

It ain’t primacy that we have a problem with.