New postulants for Fr. Groechels Franciscan order

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debraran

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franciscanfriars.com/fr_glenn_letters/frglenn1107.htm

I love to see new vocations…gives me a lift some days when I really need it.

One thing I’ve noticed though over the years, men have the luxury of going into the priesthood (or being a brother) much later in life. Women’s orders are usually more strict. I can see in a contemplative order but not so much in the more active ones.
I always understood how hard it was changing routines and lifestyle later in life, but in some men’s orders, they have no possesions, Internet, etc. and have a schedule to keep.
Do you think it’s just that they are more needed for the Eucharist or that women are “different” or usually have less activity in their orders? Just wondering why the disparity sometimes.
 
Eastern monasteries (both Catholic and Orthodox) tend to be more open to more mature and older postulatnts.
 
debraran said:
franciscanfriars.com/fr_glenn_letters/frglenn1107.htm

I love to see new vocations…gives me a lift some days when I really need it.

One thing I’ve noticed though over the years, men have the luxury of going into the priesthood (or being a brother) much later in life. Women’s orders are usually more strict. I can see in a contemplative order but not so much in the more active ones.
I always understood how hard it was changing routines and lifestyle later in life, but in some men’s orders, they have no possesions, Internet, etc. and have a schedule to keep.
Do you think it’s just that they are more needed for the Eucharist or that women are “different” or usually have less activity in their orders? Just wondering why the disparity sometimes.
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The CFRs are great!

I think the age issue varies by order. One reason I think men has more lattitude is because they have the option of the secular/diocesan priesthood or deaconate, which is more open to older men, because the diocese does not promise to financially support the men for life.

Women really only have the option of becoming religious (no diocesan equivalent), and too many older women could be a big financial strain on an order.

God Bless
 
debraran said:
franciscanfriars.com/fr_glenn_letters/frglenn1107.htm

I love to see new vocations…gives me a lift some days when I really need it.
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The Lord provides, eh?

Whenever I turn around I am finding out about some new fantastic group or some renewed order that is in fact DOING WELL in the vocations department.

I just had to repost this at my blog (theblackcordelias.wordpress.com/2008/09/28/16-postulants-for-the-franciscan-friars-of-the-renewal-%e2%80%9call-these-years-and-now-we-see-who-we-have-been-praying-for%e2%80%9d/)

The tide is turning!

Just a thought, since the names of all the gents who entered are listed here below…

Aaron Ocello (NJ)
Oisin Martin (Ireland)
T.R. Hoffman (CA)
Bob Monahan (IL)
Alan Fimister (England)
Joe Fino (OH)
Larry Napier (GA)
Declan Gibson (Ireland)
Stephen Dufrene (Louisiana)
Alain Guiteau (NY)
Emmanuel Pena (NY)
Matthew Bourgeois (LA)
Mike LeFever (VA)
Matthew Manders (IA)
Eric Forrest (GA)
Kris Meiergerd (KS)

Well something that might be a good and benificial thing to do would be to consider having Masses offered for the intention of their formation and discernment, and pass along the Mass cards with a note of encouragement. (If you want to request a Mass online, Catholic Near East Welfare Association and the Seraphic Mass Association are both places you can go.

If you mailed the Mass cards to:
St. Joseph Friary
523 West 142nd St.
New York, NY 10031

I am sure the gentleman would get them. They would get them, appreciate them, and keep you in your prayers for your kindness in remembering them in yours.
 
What a nice idea…I’m sure they would appreciate it. I hope I can do it for all of them…individually would be a bit too much for my wallet right now.
 
But where are the men of color? No Asians in the photo. Maybe one African-American - when in a class of 16 there should be 2 plus?

Why is not the Catholic church attracting vocations of color? I am referring to the US.
 
rien said:
But where are the men of color? No Asians in the photo. Maybe one African-American - when in a class of 16 there should be 2 plus?

Why is not the Catholic church attracting vocations of color? I am referring to the US.
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But where is it assumed that the classes to whom they are ministering and from whom they are attracting vocations is representative of the entire population?

Black Catholics represent about 2M out of a population of 40M+ in the US. Asian Catholics are a far smaller number… And may not be located in the areas that these Franciscans are in to get exposed to them.

Why is this coming down to a “Race thing” for you?
 
ASimpleSinner said:
But where is it assumed that the classes to whom they are ministering and from whom they are attracting vocations is representative of the entire population?

Black Catholics represent about 2M out of a population of 40M+ in the US. Asian Catholics are a far smaller number… And may not be located in the areas that these Franciscans are in to get exposed to them.

Why is this coming down to a “Race thing” for you?
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its a universal church don’t you know. And in NY? African Americans are a higher perecentage even that the overall 12%.

Just asking, just wondering.
 
Fr. Groechels group ministers to mostly blacks and hispanics, (says they are more Catholic than some of us) but many aren’t in general. That is one of the reasons…it involves becoming Cathlolic first.
Some orders do have many black and Indian members…I remember seeing quite a few in convents when looking once. We have a black priest assisting at our church, but I would hope that we will see this growing as more consider their vocation. I don’t think for a minute it has anything to do with their race, especially with this order.
 
rien said:
its a universal church don’t you know. And in NY? African Americans are a higher perecentage even that the overall 12%.

Just asking, just wondering.
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You know, it is funny you should mention it is a Universal Church… I did happen to know that, as a Greek Catholic with an African priest as my confessor.

That as the case may be, what is the breakdown of Black Catholics in NYC - if it is 12% and less than 5% of that is Catholic…

From there we need to find what the backgrounds of the postulants are. In my experience I will bet you dollars to donuts that the majority are lifelong Catholics who grew up in Catholics homes that were observant. What portion of the 12% of the New York population that is black would fit that description and be in contact with these Franciscans and discerning entrance into them?

Now rein, in bringing this up, what are you thinking the cause of that might be? Are you thinking that these Franciscans who live in Harlem and serve some of the poorest of the urban poor are racist or discriminating against Blacks? I really don’t see how you even came to make this an issue…
 
ASimpleSinner said:
You know, it is funny you should mention it is a Universal Church… I did happen to know that, as a Greek Catholic with an African priest as my confessor.

That as the case may be, what is the breakdown of Black Catholics in NYC - if it is 12% and less than 5% of that is Catholic…

From there we need to find what the backgrounds of the postulants are. In my experience I will bet you dollars to donuts that the majority are lifelong Catholics who grew up in Catholics homes that were observant. What portion of the 12% of the New York population that is black would fit that description and be in contact with these Franciscans and discerning entrance into them?

Now rein, in bringing this up, what are you thinking the cause of that might be? Are you thinking that these Franciscans who live in Harlem and serve some of the poorest of the urban poor are racist or discriminating against Blacks? I really don’t see how you even came to make this an issue…
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You are suggesting things that tell me a lot about you. This is not where my post was meant to go. But you can take it wherever you want. So we are trying to rationalize the lack of African-Americans who are Catholic or being so drawn? And trying to change the subject in a nasty way?!

African-Americans are embracing Islam in large and rapidly increasing numbers. They are embracing pentecostalism in big numbers too,

Its is not about race as you seem to think. it is about being fed spiritually and perhaps the “truth”.
 
rien said:
You are suggesting things that tell me a lot about you. This is not where my post was meant to go. But you can take it wherever you want. So we are trying to rationalize the lack of African-Americans who are Catholic or being so drawn? And trying to change the subject in a nasty way?!
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You tell me what you are trying to do. You are the one who on hearing the news of the second largest postulant class since the founding did a racial analysis.

Trying to change the subject in a nasty way? Show me what was nasty, and then explain exactly what the subject is.
rien said:
African-Americans are embracing Islam in large and rapidly increasing numbers. They are embracing pentecostalism in big numbers too,
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Do you care to analyze why it might be that African Americans are moving into pentecostalism? I would suggest that it represents the general trajectory of the Evangelical and semi-litrugical churches to which they have historically been the most drawn to membership. The AME, AME Zion, CMEC, the COGIC, Baptists… All are denominations that have been making a shift into aliturgical pentecostal style of worship.

Islam - the variety of which that was most chosen for a time being a sect considered heretical to Sunnis and Shi’ites - capitilized on anger and disaffection. The Nation of Islam - no two ways about it, a hateful nationalistic anti-white movement - has used this anger and disaffection as a jumping off point for recruitment.
rien said:
ts is not about race as you seem to think. it is about being fed spiritually and perhaps the “truth”.
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As I seem to think? Apparently I don’t know what to think - you, again, are the one that did a racial analysis of the photo.

Now some delightfully vague platitude about being fed spiritually isn’t going to get you out of that one. Explain the meaning and purpose of your analysis of the photo by color and how it is NOT a racial thing.

What you are suggesting and wanting to discuss, not discuss, or shift around to, is begining to tell me a lot about you as well.
 
rien said:
But where are the men of color? No Asians in the photo. Maybe one African-American - when in a class of 16 there should be 2 plus?
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How do you figure that there should be “2 plus” non-whites in a postulant class of 12?

Are you presupposing that postulant classes should look exactly like the nation demographically even if the demagraphics of the nation are NOT identical to the demographics of the Catholic Church in the nation?

If Black Catholics represent >2M members of a Church over 60M+ members, than - if all things are equal and proportionate in recruitment to a specific community with a specific charism (and if we are honest, we know they are NOT for reasons that have NOTHING to do with race) than 1 out of 30 members would be Black. More would be Latino, provided that the Franciscans draw on a population base that has Latino representation equivalent to the general population… Or so one would think.

A priest friend of mine who has served in Peru & Mexico and now serves a Latino population in a large urban parish as their spanish speaking associate pastor points out that Latino Catholic Culture - while always valuing their priests and the blessings of priests, has traditionally NOT been nearly as enthusiastic about promoting priestly vocations. In fact today, when discussion of the “priest shortage” in America comes up, it is worth noting that we have a priest to faithful ratio roughly equivalent to 1900s America, and roughly equivalent to THREE TIMES what they do in Mexico and Latin America, in cultures that had been 95%+ Catholic. Latinos have not traditionally produced the vocations in the same ratio as Anglos for a variety of reasons. (Several reasons immediately come to mind when you witness a Latino male grab his testicles when a priest walks by…)

So YES, there would be 4+ non white postulants in a class of 16 if the postulant class was expected to represent proportionately the demagraphics of the nation, if the Friars were drawing equally from populations that were proportionate, and all cultures involved had equal traditions of producing vocation.

If you want to know why the postulants are the colors they are, that could be a good thing to start thinking about when you ask such questions.
 
Yes, men are going to the seminary at a later age; however, most dioceses in the United States have an age-cut off limit. This of course would be due to health issues, the cost of education, pension plans, etc.

I had a friend who wanted to be a priest so badly, but because of his age, they would not accept him. I never knew that the priesthood was just for younger men.

Also, for some of these older men, they might have a taxing time adjusting back to their studies and living in a seminary when have been given up their homes, etc.; although they do have seminaries for the older adult.

As for the sisters, it depends on what group you are speaking of. I know that there are still Orders who are cloistered and never are permitted to leave the convent. Of course, a diocesan priest has more laditude than a religious priest, such as a Franciscan, Dominican, Jesuit.

But the “modern” sisters really have an easy life style. Some live in apartments, some own their own cars ( I do not know how when they take the vow of poverty.)

I know that we have a DRE and a Notre Dame Sister and she lives in an apartment and dresses like any other woman and has her own car, in fact, in her Order, they get a new car every year. What I do not understand is, when you join a religious Order, there should be community life and you certainly cannot have it living alone.

As one vocation director told me, they usually do not accept older men to the priesthood because they (the bishops) do not want to invest in their education or pension plan. And if they are ordaine at the age of 60, how many years of service can they give. It also concerns health issues.

There are so many new communities that are exisiting, in fact, I received and email where this former Franciscan brother is starting a Divine Mercy Brotherhood. He was lucky to find one bishop to sponsor him because others had refused him

Than I received another email from a man who is starting an Order in Florida, similar to the Cistercian Monks. There are so many orders to choose from, but you have to be interested in what their apostalate is.

As I commented previously, the Pope said to “modify the habit”, not get rid of it. I think it is a previlege to wear even a modern habit, that is, a veil and some kind of uniform to show to the public that you are a witness to God.

In fact, what is so quaint is, the men religious Orders have kept their habits.
 
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