New priest - - I fear he might be liberal

[FatHead]

From whom does that quote come? It surprises me. I was thinking the worst enemy of the Church might be someone else . . . let me think . . . . who could that be . . . . let me tap the old noggin . . . could it be . . . SATAN!?!?

:tiphat: SNL

Pax,
OA

i think that’s kind of a given

 

[TedDC]

two things: 1) He said it through his church

or more precisely, a church which claims to be “His Church” claims that He said it.

and 2) how else would you interpretate statments about the place where there’s “wailing and grinding of teeth”?

The statements are only significant if they can be proven to come from God, which they can’t.

 

[familyof4]

Pope Pius IX made the statement about liberals. faithfulvoice.com/vanguard.htm

It might be a good idea to define exactly what Pius mean by a liberal. I should also note that this quote comes up quite a bit when people want to complain about Vatican II.

Frankly, I don’t think that most popes would be all that enthralled by either people claiming to be liberal or conservative. Neither side exactly follows what I consider Christian tenets, and I’m often left feeling I can’t vote for either party. One is off the block for me because I have come to the point where I just can’t vote for a pro-abortion candidate, and the other is off the table because I disagree with their social values and treatment of the poor and needy, and I refuse to vote for a pro-death penalty candidate. Maybe I’ll just do a write in vote for Mickey Mouse this year.

Back to the OP. We should always pray for our enemies-- and for the issues concerning the changing of the wording, please write a letter first to him, and then follow up with a letter to your bishop if you feel the priest is brushing off your concerns.

 

[sistermouse]

I think that sometimes I have difficultly discerning what people mean when they use terms like “liberal” or “progressive.” Those words have acquired the characteristics of an epithet, at least around here, but I suspect that what one person finds “liberal” another might find appropriate. But that’s true with most generalizations - if you permit me to make one.

Pax,
OA

My meaning would a Catholic that did not follow the teachings of the Church such as being pro-choice or pro-homosexual unions, etc. Maybe I am off base, but that is what I see as a Satan led liberal.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Anyways…

Your priest should, and is required to, wear a chasuble (outer garment, worn over the “robe” and the stole) for mass. It is the outer garment proper to mass. No exceptions. Him not wearing it is inexcusable. You can perhaps mention it to him, and you really have an obligation to. I don’t see how something like that could be left out without it being intentional on his part.

His pronoun choice is not good.

His homily is fine. Pray for whatever and whoever you want on your own.

 

[Brendan]

Anyways…

Your priest should, and is required to, wear a chasuble (outer garment, worn over the “robe” and the stole) for mass. It is the outer garment proper to mass. No exceptions. Him not wearing it is inexcusable. You can perhaps mention it to him, and you really have an obligation to. I don’t see how something like that could be left out without it being intentional on his part.

I would agree that he SHOULD wear the chausuble, but the Church makes an exception for ‘just reasons’.

What his just reason(s) are, I don’t know.

His pronoun choice is not good.

It was worse than ‘not good’, it was just plain wrong and against Church teachings.

His homily is fine. Pray for whatever and whoever you want on your own.

I would agree. Our parish has Osama bin Ladin as a Mass Intention not that long ago. It should be every Catholic’s hope that terrorists act on the Grace they receive and repent, even if it’s at the last moments of their lives.

Timothy McVeigh, for example, experienced a conversion while on Death Row. He asked for, and recieved, Sacramental Absolution and Last Rites just prior to his death. So it should be all our hope to see him, and Bin Ladin, in Heaven. And that happens when we pray for them (and all sinners) to repent.

 

[OraLabora]

Then this week, he mentioned we should pray for all the people who lost loved ones from Sept. 11th and then he added we should pray for the terrorists too!!!??? I can’t wrap my head around that. Shouldn’t I be praying for our troops’ safety and praying for them to win their battles which would actually mean that I’m actually praying for the terrorists to be killed???

Yes, you should pray for your troops’ safety, and that they should prevail in battle. No you should not pray for your enemies to be killed. Praying for your troops’ victory is not the same thing as praying for the enemy to be killed. For example victory can come from a show of force that causes the enemy to surrender. It would be far better for an enemy soldier to give up and be taken prisoner than to be killed. He is someone’s father, brother, son too…

God does not want our enemies to die. He wants our enemies to convert, for each and every one of them to become a prodigal son. Alas it doesn’t happen often enough.

Jesus asked us to pray for our enemies… for a good reason, that they may be welcomed back into the fold.

As for the worst enemies of the Church being liberals… as an orthodox Catholic I take exception with that. The worst enemies of the Church are those who say the Church is some kind of exclusive club for conservatives. The Church is universal and all baptized Catholics belong in it, even those who are imperfect, at different points in their faith walk, and yes, even liberals. The Church is not about labels. It is about the Body of Christ, even the ailing or disobedient members of that body.

Leave division to the Protestants, they’re experts in it. Otherwise if we’re not careful we can foment another schism, this time between “liberals” and “conservatives”.

 

[mathematoons]

Do you think maybe Satan led Catholics to be liberal??

Of course. Satan is the father of lies, and liberalism is a lie. That’s why I left liberalism even before I became Catholic. I didn’t know yet that Satan was real, but I began to see liberalism for the evil it is. “Liberal Catholic” is an oxymoron. Everyone is either with God or against Him, and those who are against Him worship Satan even if they don’t know it (just as atheists who live by the law written on their hearts worship God without knowing it).

And if there is another schism, it will be the fault of liberal “Catholics,” not us faithful Catholics. You cannot be pro-abortion or pro-contraception or pro-sodomy and still call yourself Catholic. I’m tired of being blamed for liberalism when I don’t believe anything those heretics say.

To the OP: When I found out that my priest had been supporting the homosexual agenda for years and was leaving to actively support them (instead of saying Mass), I changed parishes right away and never looked back. I like my new priest (and my new parish)much better.

 

[FatHead]

I would agree that he SHOULD wear the chausuble, but the Church makes an exception for ‘just reasons’.

What his just reason(s) are, I don’t know.

dont the “just reasons” only apply to concelebrants?

 

[DarrenOglesby]

I think the only time a priest may wear just a alb and stole is when he is celebrating mass outside a church. Like in the army, or on a camping trip ect.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

The term “liberal” doesn’t really apply here. The priest is either orthodox or not. In this case (as in most cases) he is following church teachings on some things and not on others.

yes, he should wear a chasuble at Mass. There may be a simple reason why he didn’t, so it doesn’t hurt to ask. “Father, I am used to seeing priests in chasubles. I hope the vestments at the church aren’t damaged?”

No, the words the priest says at Mass shouldn’t be changed. This may be a bad habit he picked up somewhere. It may be a misguided attempt to be “inclusive”, but still not signify that he’s ready to welcome women as priests. Again, a conversation with his and a charitably worded question can give a lot of insight.

Yes, we should pray for our enemies. Christ specifically commanded us to do so. It is very, very hard, but something we should always work at. I find it easier to pray for Osama bin Laden than a co-worker who I perceive to be going behind my back, but we should pray for all our enemies. We of course will also be praying for our friends, our troops, etc.

Get to know your priest and give him a chance to settle in before you decide to change parishes.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

The first time I went to a Mass presided over by the new parish priest, I noticed that he was wearing his robe and the stole but no colored poncho-type thing over all that (sorry I don’t know the term). Last year, I recall a young seminarian criticizing the local priests who don’t wear the “poncho”.

The poncho is called a chasuble. Don’t worry about not knowing it, there’s a special word for almost everything in the Church.
Yes, a priest should be wearing the chasuble when saying Mass. The only possible reasonable exemption would be if the weather is overly hot and the priest is sensitive to heat. Its better to have the priest missing a chasuble and saying Mass then wearing the chasuble and passing out half way through Mass. But that’s a rare case.

Also, in one of the prayers during Communion where we (the congregation) participate, the priest replaces “He” and “His” for God and God’s (ie. " . . . for our good and all of God’s church . . ." etc.).

That may or not be a liberal thing. Does he do that every time the Mass uses the words “he/his” or does he just do it for certain phrases because he thinks it sounds better? While the priest may have a liberal bent on this matter, he also may just be plain old changing words around (that’s a liturgical disease that effects liberals & conservatives alike).

The first homily I heard from him was about how we need to be inclusive of others and he mentioned it in the context of other religions.

Nothing inherently wrong with that statement.

Then this week, he mentioned we should pray for all the people who lost loved ones from Sept. 11th and then he added we should pray for the terrorists too!!!??? I can’t wrap my head around that.

Did Jesus not ask us to love and pray for our enemies?

Shouldn’t I be praying for our troops’ safety and praying for them to win their battles which would actually mean that I’m actually praying for the terrorists to be killed???

I think we should pray for an end to war. Unfortunately sometimes we have no choice but to fight them so we should pray for a quick and least bloody end to conflict.

There is a very orthodox parish in another neighborhood that I attend sometimes on weekdays and the priests there are so different and unafraid to speak the truth about things like abortion, homosexuality and morals. If I do leave and go to that parish, there’s a complication that I slated to teach catechism at my home parish.

You are free to attend whichever parish you like. However, we should always be careful of simply finding a parish that preaches to us what we already want to hear.

 

[CatholicLife]

Spelling correction: chasuble

Thanks!

 

[OraLabora]

You cannot be pro-abortion or pro-contraception or pro-sodomy and still call yourself Catholic.

Quite a leap there from some possibly “inclusive” language to supporting contraception, sodomy and abortion…

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

First, I will explain that I’m a fairly new Catholic so I don’t know all the rules for stuff like vestments (I’ll explain in a second). And I also want to point out that I am the last person to criticize priests - - I stood up for my former priest several times when people were criticizing him behind his back.

The first time I went to a Mass presided over by the new parish priest, I noticed that he was wearing his robe and the stole but no colored poncho-type thing over all that (sorry I don’t know the term). Last year, I recall a young seminarian criticizing the local priests who don’t wear the “poncho”. Also, in one of the prayers during Communion where we (the congregation) participate, the priest replaces “He” and “His” for God and God’s (ie. " . . . for our good and all of God’s church . . ." etc.). I have some friends who do that and it always irritates me when I sit the same pew because I know their views and they talk about God supposedly having a feminine side. It always offends me and I’m a woman! The first homily I heard from him was about how we need to be inclusive of others and he mentioned it in the context of other religions. Then this week, he mentioned we should pray for all the people who lost loved ones from Sept. 11th and then he added we should pray for the terrorists too!!!??? I can’t wrap my head around that. Shouldn’t I be praying for our troops’ safety and praying for them to win their battles which would actually mean that I’m actually praying for the terrorists to be killed???

Thanks for your help with this difficult issue - - as a new Catholic I just don’t know if I’m making a big deal over nothing or what. If I were still a Protestant, I’d just leave and find a new church but I don’t know if that’s what Catholics ought to do. There is a very orthodox parish in another neighborhood that I attend sometimes on weekdays and the priests there are so different and unafraid to speak the truth about things like abortion, homosexuality and morals. If I do leave and go to that parish, there’s a complication that I slated to teach catechism at my home parish.

Wow…you make a big leap to liberal. Others have replied back about the vestment and changing of words which could be something very unintentional. I don’t think praying for your enemies is liberal at all, it’s something Christ said we should do.

I would think the priest was liberal if he taught something that was clearly against Church teaching such as pro-contraception or pro-homosexuality…those things.

Let’s not immediately assume someone is liberal for the small stuff.

And you’re slated to teach catechism? Hmmm…

 

[legaleagle]

Wow…you make a big leap to liberal. Others have replied back about the vestment and changing of words which could be something very unintentional. I don’t think praying for your enemies is liberal at all, it’s something Christ said we should do.

I would think the priest was liberal if he taught something that was clearly against Church teaching such as pro-contraception or pro-homosexuality…those things.

Let’s not immediately assume someone is liberal for the small stuff.

And you’re slated to teach catechism? Hmmm…

Wow, you certainly make a big leap to insinuate that I shouldn’t be teaching catechism because I’m concerned about certain liturgical abnormalities. Thanks for the ad hominem argument.

Thanks, everyone for weighing in on this.

I should’ve clarified that I wasn’t suggesting he is liberal for his comment about praying for terrorists. I included that info because it caught me by surprise when we’re in the middle of a war and with it being 10 years from the horrible pain and terror of 9/11. Yes, I agree Jesus instructed us to pray for our enemies and yes, I agree that the Lord is not willing that any should perish. It’s just hard to wrap my head around the whole thing. However, St. Paul was once a persecutor and murderer of Christians and look how he turned out in the end, so point taken about praying for enemies.

Back to my main concerns: lack of chasuble and gender neutral language. I’ve been to Mass with the new priest at least 5 times now and he has not worn it. We actually got two new priests this summer. The first new priest (who is only at some Masses) was wearing his chasuble when he came but now since the new main priest has arrived, the first guy has ditched his chasuble. The gender neutral language is more of a concern for me because it’s usually symptomatic of a greater problem with orthodoxy. I know people (Catholics) that don’t refer to God as “He” and who hold liberal views on other issues. I don’t consider it a “small” thing to change the wording of the Mass. Maybe he feels bad for women and doesn’t want them to feel excluded or something but I’m a woman and I don’t feel devalued knowing that Jesus is male and God is our Father.

For now, I’m going to continue attending my local parish and wait and see how things unfold. In the meantime, I shall pray for my new priest. I will add that I’m not the kind of person that goes around criticizing the clergy. When I was in RCIA, the leaders criticized our former priest in one of our classes. I was shocked and disgusted that they would do that to a group of new Catholics and I spoke up in his defence. (In case anyone is curious, they were criticizing him because he wasn’t preaching about abortion so they were suggesting that he is liberal by his silence).

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Wow, you certainly make a big leap to insinuate that I shouldn’t be teaching catechism because I’m concerned about certain liturgical abnormalities. Thanks for the ad hominem argument.

I did not insinuate anything…all I said was hmmm… as in sigh…just something to think about. By the way…I do find it slightly ironic that you accuse me of a big leap when you are making a big leap to liberal (IMHO).

At any rate I’m sure you’ll make good use of the suggestion about talking to your priest. (and no I’m not being sarcastic in that).

 

[DarrenOglesby]

Is there 2 priest’s at the same mass? It may just be that one priest is concelebrating, which not wearing the chasuable would be the norm.

 

[legaleagle]

Is there 2 priest’s at the same mass? It may just be that one priest is concelebrating, which not wearing the chasuable would be the norm.

Nope, only one priest per Mass.

I did not insinuate anything…all I said was hmmm… as in sigh…just something to think about. By the way…I do find it slightly ironic that you accuse me of a big leap when you are making a big leap to liberal (IMHO).

At any rate I’m sure you’ll make good use of the suggestion about talking to your priest. (and no I’m not being sarcastic in that).

Annabelle Marie, I was trying to be witty in saying *you *were making a big leap because in your earlier post, you said *I *was making a big leap.

 

[drforjc]

changing of words which could be something very unintentional

In my experience, this particular change (neutering masculine pronouns for God) is rarely “unintentional.” It may not be intentional to harm the faith, but it is generally done intentionally, Why else not read the black words in the Sacrementary right before your eyes?
I would be more agreeable to accepting the excuse that the priest has been unwittingly
influenced by heterodox sources and simply is not aware of the need to follow the Church’s mandate to use the official version.