New Roman Missal music changes

  • Thread starter Thread starter Don9of11
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Don9of11

Guest
I was looking over the changes proposed for the new Roman Missal I found at the USCCB, usccb.org/romanmissal/examples.shtml, and was wondering how these would be reflected in the music. I was particularly looking at the sung mass parts like the Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus and Agnus Dei. The new English translations will not fit the current meter of say the Pope Paul VI Mass or Peoples Mass, Mass of Christian Burial or their Latin counterparts that I am familiar with. Is anyone aware of or seen any new musical arrangements for the new translations?🙂
 
There was recently a contest to compose a setting in English for the New Mass that was conducted by the The National Association of Pastoral Musicians (NPM):

npm.org/Articles/mass_setting.html

They only asked for the English, but Latin could be placed into meter, if the music is arranged in a certain way. My entry consisted of short, hymn style melodies. I am not sure how the new missal in English would use the music (if I am blessed enough to win) but it most likely could be arranged, with a few rhythmic changes, to be sung in Latin if necessary. It looks like all we can do is wait and see what some of the new music will sound like. Hopefully, it will be more traditional sounding and less folk sounding this time around.

At present, I am able to attend a Extraordinary Form of Mass, which still uses the Gregorian Chant and some works of Baroque composers, with organ only. I am glad to see the Latin being used in the Ordinary Form now, and it seems to many to be a welcome change, possibly one of many.
 
Tartini said:
I am glad to see the Latin being used in the Ordinary Form now, and it seems to many to be a welcome change, possibly one of many.
Click to expand...
I agree. There’s no reason why some classical works such as Bach’s Mass in B minor couldn’t be used in the OF.
 
When the CDWDS released the new translations, it made it perfectly clear that composers had to stick to the official texts of the Church. Paraphrasing and substitions are forbidden, per Liturgiam Authenticam. The music has to fit the texts, not the other way around.

Now, the Latin texts have not changed. The English texts changed to fit the actual Latin texts. Thus, all of the settings that are currently in use will have to be amended to fit the text, not the other way around. The only thing that I feel sad about is that we will be losing Richard Proulx’s wonderful settings. I don’t feel bad at all about losing the SLJ Mass settings or anything written by Bob Hurd.
 
benedictgal said:
When the CDWDS released the new translations, it made it perfectly clear that composers had to stick to the official texts of the Church. Paraphrasing and substitions are forbidden, per Liturgiam Authenticam. The music has to fit the texts, not the other way around.

Now, the Latin texts have not changed. The English texts changed to fit the actual Latin texts. Thus, all of the settings that are currently in use will have to be amended to fit the text, not the other way around. The only thing that I feel sad about is that we will be losing Richard Proulx’s wonderful settings. I don’t feel bad at all about losing the SLJ Mass settings or anything written by Bob Hurd.
Click to expand...
Obviously there have been some lovely English Mass settings and it will be sad to lose them if the new texts don’t fit the music, but I’m glad that inevitably we will have to say goodbye to some terrible settings…Hopefully bishops will actually emphasise that what is sung has to match what’s in the missal - perhaps it’s wishful thinking (though I hope it’s not), but that would mean so many Gloria’s and Agnus Dei’s where liberties had been taken with the text will have to go into the bin!

Similar to what Tartini said, the Liturgy Centre of the Bishops Conference in Ireland is also having a composition competition - don’t know the full details yet, except that the closing date is sometime in May…

I also think that this time of change could be an excellent opportunity to promote the use of Latin Mass settings in parish churches - after all, the texts won’t be changing & there are countless do-able settings. It would be useful to have some Latin settings while choirs are bridging the gap between the old and new English translations.
 
NPC said:
Obviously there have been some lovely English Mass settings and it will be sad to lose them if the new texts don’t fit the music, but I’m glad that inevitably we will have to say goodbye to some terrible settings…Hopefully bishops will actually emphasise that what is sung has to match what’s in the missal - perhaps it’s wishful thinking (though I hope it’s not), but that would mean so many Gloria’s and Agnus Dei’s where liberties had been taken with the text will have to go into the bin!
Click to expand...
We’re already supposed to only use music that is faithful to the text but that’s not what we see in many parishes. My own pastor sees nothing wrong with using a Carey Landry Gloria that guts the text. I strongly suspect that we’ll still be singing that when the new translation comes out because, as the music director is wont to say, “I’m sure God doesn’t mind.” Since I’ve never been privy to God’s opinion of the music used, I don’t know how to answer that.
 
Phemie said:
We’re already supposed to only use music that is faithful to the text but that’s not what we see in many parishes. My own pastor sees nothing wrong with using a Carey Landry Gloria that guts the text. I strongly suspect that we’ll still be singing that when the new translation comes out because, as the music director is wont to say, “I’m sure God doesn’t mind.” Since I’ve never been privy to God’s opinion of the music used, I don’t know how to answer that.
Click to expand...
Privileged music director that they know God’s taste in liturgical music - however, one of many such privileged persons, I fear! I suppose the theory is that all texts which do not match the new missal should be ditched. However, I wonder if there will be a reluctance among some music directors to do this if they’ve had the support of their priest thus far to use music which is unfaithful to the current missal? How co-operative do you think your music director will be (or other music directors for that matter) - can we expect that their “I’m sure God doesn’t mind” attitude will change? I think this would be a good time for bishops to put their foot down on abuses in the area of church music.
 
Goodbye Mass of Creation!!!
:clapping::clapping::extrahappy::extrahappy::dancing::dancing:
 
NPC said:
Privileged music director that they know God’s taste in liturgical music - however, one of many such privileged persons, I fear! I suppose the theory is that all texts which do not match the new missal should be ditched. However, I wonder if there will be a reluctance among some music directors to do this if they’ve had the support of their priest thus far to use music which is unfaithful to the current missal? How co-operative do you think your music director will be (or other music directors for that matter) - can we expect that their “I’m sure God doesn’t mind” attitude will change? I think this would be a good time for bishops to put their foot down on abuses in the area of church music.
Click to expand...
I think unless the Bishops do put their foot down and say “No more abuses, you have to strictly sing only what is in the new Roman Missal” we’ll keep on singing the stuff we’ve been singing all along.

Face it, it was the bishops who gave us the Canadian hymnal “Catholic Book of Worship III” and it has Haugen’s Mass of Creation in it so not adhering to the text had their blessing.

For years the default Mass setting in Canada seemed to be Somerville’s (New) Good Shepherd Mass. It’s the first one I remember learning in English and I heard it in parishes across Canada. It’s still my favourite setting for its ease and faithfulness to the text. Now the MOC seems to have taken over. Rare is the parish where I’ve attended Mass in recent years and not heard at least parts of it, the exception being the Halifax, NS, area where many parishes seem to prefer Paul Benoit’s setting since he’s a local composer.
 
Phemie said:
I think unless the Bishops do put their foot down and say “No more abuses, you have to strictly sing only what is in the new Roman Missal” we’ll keep on singing the stuff we’ve been singing all along.

Face it, it was the bishops who gave us the Canadian hymnal “Catholic Book of Worship III” and it has Haugen’s Mass of Creation in it so not adhering to the text had their blessing.

For years the default Mass setting in Canada seemed to be Somerville’s (New) Good Shepherd Mass. It’s the first one I remember learning in English and I heard it in parishes across Canada. It’s still my favourite setting for its ease and faithfulness to the text. Now the MOC seems to have taken over. Rare is the parish where I’ve attended Mass in recent years and not heard at least parts of it, the exception being the Halifax, NS, area where many parishes seem to prefer Paul Benoit’s setting since he’s a local composer.
Click to expand...
Marty Haugen’s music isn’t very popular in Ireland - certainly not the Mass settings anyway, so I guess I ought to be thankful. There is one Mass which has been a staple in every parish church in Ireland since the 1970’s - “The Mass of Peace” by Irish composer Seoirse Bodley. It’s a simple congregational setting - certain musical patterns are repeated, for example the Alleluia, Memorial Acclamation and the first part of the Sanctus are identical. “The Mass of Our Lady of Lourdes” is also popular here - people do actually join in singing it! - but none has ever managed to surpass Bodley’s Mass. He’s in his late seventies now, but it would be nice if he permitted a reworking of his Mass settings.
 
Richard Rice has written a nice setting of the new Mass texts, available for free from the Church Music Association of America (you have to register and receive the music by e-mail: musicasacra.com/ordinary).

I am no renowned composer, but I am working on my own setting as well.

It is disappointing to hear that Haugen is rewriting Massive Cremation; I was really looking forward to never having to hear it again. Nevertheless, this should be a great opportunity to ditch some bad music, and a teachable moment for our congregations about what the Church expects from us where music is concerned.
 
moreorless said:
Richard Rice has written a nice setting of the new Mass texts, available for free from the Church Music Association of America (you have to register and receive the music by e-mail: musicasacra.com/ordinary).

I am no renowned composer, but I am working on my own setting as well.

It is disappointing to hear that Haugen is rewriting Massive Cremation; I was really looking forward to never having to hear it again. Nevertheless, this should be a great opportunity to ditch some bad music, and a teachable moment for our congregations about what the Church expects from us where music is concerned.
Click to expand...
I thought ICEL had forced them to stop providing those free settings.
 
ProVobis said:
I agree. There’s no reason why some classical works such as Bach’s Mass in B minor couldn’t be used in the OF.
Click to expand...
This was not intended as a liturgical work, and it’s WAYYYY too hard for the average parish choir, anyway.
 
bpbasilphx said:
This was not intended as a liturgical work, and it’s WAYYYY too hard for the average parish choir, anyway.
Click to expand...
Beg to differ. It was written specifically for the Mass. Mozart and Haydn had some brilliant (and shorter) works as well that might be somewhat easier for the average parish choir. I’ll admit that I will miss music such as that of Richard Proulx, whom I admired many years when he was director/organist at Holy Name Cathedral, but a few time-tested Latin-sung Masses in the OF wouldn’t hurt.

Anyone hear Palestrina?
 
ProVobis said:
Beg to differ. It was written specifically for the Mass. Mozart and Haydn had some brilliant (and shorter) works as well that might be somewhat easier for the average parish choir. I’ll admit that I will miss music such as that of Richard Proulx, whom I admired many years when he was director/organist at Holy Name Cathedral, but a few time-tested Latin-sung Masses in the OF wouldn’t hurt.

Anyone hear Palestrina?
Click to expand...
Find me an average parish that can do Palestrina. None of the parishes I’ve been a member of have a paid director of music, let alone one who can deal with Palestrina.
 
Phemie said:
I thought ICEL had forced them to stop providing those free settings.
Click to expand...
As I understand it, ICEL would not allow them to distribute the settings via the web, but that distribution via e-mail was okay. That is how I received them. I’m not sure that I understand the distinction, but I have given up on trying to figure out ICEL’s various copyright rationales.
 
ProVobis said:
I’ll admit that I will miss music such as that of Richard Proulx, whom I admired many years when he was director/organist at Holy Name Cathedral, but a few time-tested Latin-sung Masses in the OF wouldn’t hurt.
Click to expand...
I am still partial to Proulx’s Community Mass, which is probably the only current English setting that I will miss. Agreed that the Latin-sung ordinaries will work well in OF; translations will never change. Last Sunday I chanted the Agnus Dei from Orbis Factor (Mass XI), and will start introducing other parts gradually to get the congregation used to hearing them.
 
How many parishes have even implemented Jubilate Deo, which was given to us free by Pope Paul VI? We’d be well served if everyone knew at least that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top