New Rosary Mysteries

[PioKolby]

referring to piokolyby:
How disingenuous his charity is in some of his posts when he then turns around and says something as insulting as his last post. John Paul fought communism and to insinuate that the Luminous mysteries have anything to do with it is just, for lack of a better word hyperbole.

Me thinks that he no doubt came up with all this nonsense just to get under the skin of those who are faithful to the rosary. For the most part I highly doubt that any trad Catholic is going to connect these mysteries to communism, free masonry and protestantism. Their reasons are probably more likely do to the fact that they cannot stand change of any kind in the Church; and their exaggerated sense of fear that anything new means something sinister.

I didn’t connect the mysteries to communism, freemasonry,modernism, protestantism. The mysteries come from sacred scripture. What is disingenuous is to discuss the new rosary out of context of the ramped heresy and apostasy in the Church. I am not a traditional Catholic. I am a orthodox Catholic. I reject terms like conservative,liberal,traditional and modernist before the word Catholic. Either one is orthodox or heterodox. All the rest of those terms come from the world not the Church. Yes the Pope did fight Communism. My point was and still is the depth and power of those who infiltrated the Church should not be underestimated.The new rosary comes to us in the context of this age of error in the Church. Ignoring the train wreck hasn’t made it go away so far. The Rosary with it’s 15 mysteries has show it’s fruitfulness in the Church and in History. The rosary with it’s 15 mysteries which the Church calls us to remember today on this feast of Our lady of the Holy Rosary with it’s connection to Our lady of victory with the famous battle On October 7, 1571, a great victory over the mighty Turkish fleet was won by Catholic naval forces primarily from Spain, Venice, and Genoa under the command of Don Juan of Austria. It was the last battle at sea between “oared” ships, which featured the most powerful navy in the world, a Moslem force with between 12,000 to 15,000 Christian slaves as rowers. The patchwork team of Catholic ships was powered by the Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary. It is proper to pray the 15 mysteries of the rosary with this in mind and in the communion of saints. Frankly why would anyone want to break with this tradition? Father Angelo breaks it down here youtube.com/watch?v=AuT4k8fON50 The Rosary with it’s 15 mysteries has nothing to do with communism, freemasonry,modernism, and protestantism. Why? it predates them all. Does the new rosary? In my judgment the new rosary will always be connected to this age of error. The rosary with it’s 15 mysteries will outlive all the current errors in the Church and it will outlive the novelty of the new rosary. The Rosary with it’s 15 mysteries is also the bond that held the faithful connected in thought and prayer during the Albigensian heresy and ultimately crushed that error. Why would anyone want to break with that tradition in history? Novelty is passing tradition will stand. So since everyone here seems to claim obedience to the Holy Father on the matter of a private devotion how about this matter does everyone here kneel for communion? It is after all the norm in America along with communion on the tongue. This is what the Pope wants so since many here listen to the Pope so well I assume you all kneel for communion? Right chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1344719?eng=y

 

[PioKolby]

Lets look at this from another angle. If the Mysteries of Light shouldn’t be involved than the Prayer of Fatima also should be removed?

“O Jesus, forgive us for our sins, save us from the fires of hell, take all souls to heaven, especially those most in need of your mercy.” Amen

Great question! This goes to the point of organic development. The new rosary and the new mass are not products of organic development in the hearts of the faithful like the Fatima prayer in the rosary is.The new rosary also lacks roots in the life of the Church. It has been attached to the rosary. Normally things flow from the heart of the Church in a slow organic fashion infused by the Holy Ghost over time .The new rosary and the new mass were invented in the minds of two men. Pope John Paul II and Annibale Bugnini. This is not how things normally become part of tradition in the Church unless we see some direct intervention of heaven to confirm the new thing like in the case of the Battle of Lepanto and St. Dominic’s vision.Which then bares fruit. Also we see a continuity between heaven the Battle of Lepanto,St. Dominic’s vision and Fatima which our lady gives us the Fatima prayer and calls for recitation of the 15 mysteries of the rosary. According to the book Our Lady of Fatima by William Thomas Walsh (Macmillan, 1947), in an interview with the author (p 225) Sr. Lucia states that, “The correct form is the one I have written in my account of the apparition of July 13: ‘O my Jesus, pardon us, and save us from the fire of hell; draw all souls to heaven, especially those most in need.’” So as obedient children the faithful in line with the sense of faith added the prayer as a organic development to the rosary in line with our mother’s request. That did not fundamentally change the rosary like the new rosary does. We hear that “Among all the devotions approved by the Church none has been so favored by so many miracles as the devotion of the Most Holy Rosary” (Pope Pius IX). Clearly the Pope here is speaking about a certain thing not what ever anyone thinks the rosary is. My point is the rosary is something now to some it is something else.Pope John Paul II has called the Rosary his “favorite prayer,” after the Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours. So for those who claim the rosary is just another private devotion that doesn’t seem to line up with Pope John Paul II. So to answer your question no it is not wrong to add a prayer to the rosary.Like a Pope added the St. Michael prayer to the end of the low Mass in the Latin rite Flowing from a direct intervention of heaven.The fruit of the prayer does not need to mentioned. It is not correct to fundamentally change a thing and call it what it was before. Like the new mass which has a valid consecration but is fundamentally not the same liturgy that the Latin rite produced from the early Church till the 1960’s. At some point you have something new something different.Like the new rosary I hope that is clear. One grows organically from tradition one is imposed on tradition. At the end of the day it shows in the good fruit that is borne or the bad fruit that is borne that was how our Blessed Lord told us to judge a thing. If my memory serves the Pope didn’t say the luminous mysteries were from a vision of our lady.He merely suggested them in a non binding way. So couldn’t this send the wrong message to protestant heretics? As if we just make things up. After all we didn’t invent the 15 mysteries the way the 5 new ones were made up.

 

[Shin]

The Rosary is the Psalter for the laity… the monks have the Divine Office… the Psalms… and the laity have the Marian Psalter… the Rosary.

It’s one of the most fundamentally important prayers of the Church, among the greatest of prayers she possesses.

The Rosary, the Mass, the Breviary…

When you touch these, you’re touching something sacred, and something which changes to can do great harm, despite good intentions, and can and must only be done with the greatest of care, if ever. It is certainly under attack. The attacks will come in various ways. People must be on guard against them, from all places, and must view all alterations with great discernment.

Who asked for the Rosary to be changed? Why this timing? Is this the end of it? And so on.

What is disingenuous is to discuss the new rosary out of context of the ramped heresy and apostasy in the Church.

Exactly so. But, many people do not understand the troubled times we are in, and think that things are much better than they are. So they become quite distraught at any suggestion matters are otherwise… because it interrupts a beautiful little dream…

I empathize. But we have to live in reality… we must not be selfish.

 

[PioKolby]

The Rosary is the Psalter for the laity… the monks have the Divine Office… the Psalms… and the laity have the Marian Psalter… the Rosary.

It’s one of the most fundamentally important prayers of the Church, among the greatest of prayers she possesses.

The Rosary, the Mass, the Breviary…

When you touch these, you’re touching something sacred, and something which changes to can do great harm, despite good intentions, and can and must only be done with the greatest of care, if ever. It is certainly under attack. The attacks will come in various ways. People must be on guard against them, from all places, and must view all alterations with great discernment.

Who asked for the Rosary to be changed? Why this timing? Is this the end of it? And so on.

Exactly so. But, many people do not understand the troubled times we are in, and think that things are much better than they are. So they become quite distraught at any suggestion matters are otherwise… because it interrupts a beautiful little dream…

I empathize. But we have to live in reality… we must not be selfish.

Amen! That is what I am talking about. Dealing with things as they are not as we wish them to be is needed. Pretending like everything is sunshine lollipops and rainbows and that the new rosary is somehow isolated from all the other madness in the Church is denial or a better term might be cognitive dissidence to describe what some suffer from in this tread. Since some here equate love of tradition & rejection of error with OCD. I love being accused of mental illness for not ignoring this 100% pure madness.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZQPkYwIOCRM

youtube.com/watch?v=zeP_EdQc5so

youtube.com/watch?v=4ovRwra4kzQ

Has our lady ever said anything about the new rosary in a approved apparition? Have any miracles been reported from the new rosary? Any good stories of men becoming Priests because of the new rosary? Any fruit at all for the Church to look to?

 

[StTommyMore]

Amen! That is what I am talking about. Dealing with things as they are not as we wish them to be is needed. Pretending like everything is sunshine lollipops and rainbows and that the new rosary is somehow isolated from all the other madness in the Church is denial or a better term might be cognitive dissidence to describe what some suffer from in this tread. Since some here equate love of tradition & rejection of error with OCD. I love being accused of mental illness for not ignoring this 100% pure madness.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZQPkYwIOCRM

youtube.com/watch?v=zeP_EdQc5so

youtube.com/watch?v=4ovRwra4kzQ

Has our lady ever said anything about the new rosary in a approved apparition? Have any miracles been reported from the new rosary? Any good stories of men becoming Priests because of the new rosary? Any fruit at all for the Church to look to?

This is an extremely dangerous position to take. The Church is not promulgating error.

 

[PioKolby]

This is an extremely dangerous position to take. The Church is not promulgating error.

The Church is not promulgating error she can’t do so it is against her nature. Her enemies are within.Her enemies are attacking from outside her.The enemies of the cross are promulgating the error. Please don’t tell me you defend the madness in those videos. Being indifferent to heresy and apostasy is grave matter with regard to Sin. We can sin mortally by omission. My soul and salvation is more important to me than the feelings of heretics. If you can’t understand that sorry that is your problem. Maybe this will help you see the difference between the True religion and the counterfeit.

youtube.com/watch?v=lxx1ZRMpfk8

If we are looking for authentic renewal. We should stick to the saints and tradition. The rosary is a very powerful tool against evil next to the Mass maybe the most powerful. The new rosary is still very new. So do you know of any miracles from the new rosary? Do you know of any vocations or conversions linked directly to the new rosary. Instead of where’s the beef. I say to you where’s the fruit? Stick with the saints and you won’t go wrong.
montfort.org.uk/Writings/Rosary.html

“There is another related in the Chronicles of St. Dominic. Near Carcassonne, where St. Dominic was preaching the Rosary, there was an unfortunate heretic who was possessed by a multitude of devils. These evil spirits to their confusion were compelled at the command of our Lady to confess many great and consoling truths concerning devotion to her. They did this so clearly and forcibly that, however weak our devotion to our Lady may be, we cannot read this authentic story containing such an unwilling tribute paid by the devils to devotion to our Lady without shedding tears of joy.”
–Saint Louis Marie de Montfort, The Secret of the Rosary

“They will have the two-edged sword of the word of God in their mouths and the blood-stained standard of the Cross on their shoulders. They will carry the crucifix in their right hand and the rosary in their left, and the holy names of Jesus and Mary on their heart. The simplicity and self-sacrifice of Jesus will be reflected in their whole behaviour.”
–Saint Louis Marie de Montfort, speaking of the great Saints of the end times

“The Rosary is the ‘weapon’ for these times.”
–Saint Padre Pio

“The Rosary is the most beautiful and richest of all prayers to the Mediatrix of all grace; it is the prayer that touches most the heart of the Mother of God. Say it each day.”
–Pope Saint Pius X

“Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world.”
–Saint Pope Pius IX

“Among the various supplications with which we successfully appeal to the Virgin Mother of God, the Holy Rosary without doubt occupies a special and distinct place. This prayer, which some call the Psalter of the Virgin or Breviary of the Gospel and of Christian life, was described and recommended by Our Predecessor of happy memory, Leo XIII”
–Pope Pius XI

“The Holy Rosary is the storehouse of countless blessings.”
–Blessed Alan de la Roche

“There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot solve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary.”
–Sister Lucia, of the seers of Fatima

The faults of children are not always imputed to the parents, especially when they have instructed them and given good example. Our Lord, in His wonderous Providence, allows children to break the hearts of devout fathers and mothers. Thus the decisions your children have made don’t make you a failure as a parent in God’s eyes. You are entitled to feel sorrow, but not necessarily guilt. Do not cease praying for your children; God’s grace can touch a hardened heart. Commend your children to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. When parents pray the Rosary,at the end of each decade they should hold the Rosary aloft and say to her,“With these beads bind my children to your Immaculate Heart”, she will attend to their souls.
– St. Louise de Marillac

 

[PJM]

This has probably been discussed before, but, I want to know if any of the traditionalist Catholics here pray the Luminous Mysteries.

If this is a heated subject, I don’t want slander. I don’t know how volitile this subject is, but, I know this folder can get a bit passionate at times in regards to the love of God.

I do with a JOYFUL HEART!

 

[laszlo]

I born into the traditional times, was raised in the traditional Chruch. I pray every day the Roman Breviary according to the Divino Afflatu rules, and I let my computer to read me the Tridentine Mass every day. I pray the rosary any time if I have to wait. I always start with the mystery for the day, and if I still have time, and usually have, then I proceed with the luminous mysteries.

The Rosary centers around the life of our Lord, a John Paul II filled up a hiatus, His public life, and the pope filled it up well. I learned from him, that the Transfiguration represented an important change, the start to establish a Church, independent from the chosen nation.

I hope that sometimes a pope will fill up one more hiatus, his afterlife, as he lives among us trough his mystical body the Church.

 

[simple_soul]

Great question! This goes to the point of organic development. The new rosary and the new mass are not products of organic development in the hearts of the faithful like the Fatima prayer in the rosary is.The new rosary also lacks roots in the life of the Church. It has been attached to the rosary. Normally things flow from the heart of the Church in a slow organic fashion infused by the Holy Ghost over time .The new rosary and the new mass were invented in the minds of two men. Pope John Paul II and Annibale Bugnini. This is not how things normally become part of tradition in the Church unless we see some direct intervention of heaven to confirm the new thing like in the case of the Battle of Lepanto and St. Dominic’s vision.Which then bares fruit. Also we see a continuity between heaven the Battle of Lepanto,St. Dominic’s vision and Fatima which our lady gives us the Fatima prayer and calls for recitation of the 15 mysteries of the rosary. According to the book Our Lady of Fatima by William Thomas Walsh (Macmillan, 1947), in an interview with the author (p 225) Sr. Lucia states that, “The correct form is the one I have written in my account of the apparition of July 13: ‘O my Jesus, pardon us, and save us from the fire of hell; draw all souls to heaven, especially those most in need.’” So as obedient children the faithful in line with the sense of faith added the prayer as a organic development to the rosary in line with our mother’s request. That did not fundamentally change the rosary like the new rosary does. We hear that “Among all the devotions approved by the Church none has been so favored by so many miracles as the devotion of the Most Holy Rosary” (Pope Pius IX). Clearly the Pope here is speaking about a certain thing not what ever anyone thinks the rosary is. My point is the rosary is something now to some it is something else.Pope John Paul II has called the Rosary his “favorite prayer,” after the Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours. So for those who claim the rosary is just another private devotion that doesn’t seem to line up with Pope John Paul II. So to answer your question no it is not wrong to add a prayer to the rosary.Like a Pope added the St. Michael prayer to the end of the low Mass in the Latin rite Flowing from a direct intervention of heaven.The fruit of the prayer does not need to mentioned. It is not correct to fundamentally change a thing and call it what it was before. Like the new mass which has a valid consecration but is fundamentally not the same liturgy that the Latin rite produced from the early Church till the 1960’s. At some point you have something new something different.Like the new rosary I hope that is clear. One grows organically from tradition one is imposed on tradition. At the end of the day it shows in the good fruit that is borne or the bad fruit that is borne that was how our Blessed Lord told us to judge a thing. If my memory serves the Pope didn’t say the luminous mysteries were from a vision of our lady.He merely suggested them in a non binding way. So couldn’t this send the wrong message to protestant heretics? As if we just make things up. After all we didn’t invent the 15 mysteries the way the 5 new ones were made up.

*Dear Piokolby,

In the part that I emphasized I just have a few questions.
First, how does adding the Luminous Mysteries go against the one tradition of faith that unites the Church through the ages, and prove that Pope John Paul II did not rely utterly on the guidance of the Holy Spirit whom Jesus promised would lead his followers “into all the truth” (Jn 16:13),?
Second; how do you know they were just made up?
Third; what exactly is the 'bad fruit" that resulted in adding them?

 

[simple_soul]

The Rosary is the Psalter for the laity… the monks have the Divine Office… the Psalms… and the laity have the Marian Psalter… the Rosary.

It’s one of the most fundamentally important prayers of the Church, among the greatest of prayers she possesses.

The Rosary, the Mass, the Breviary…

When you touch these, you’re touching something sacred, and something which changes to can do great harm, despite good intentions, and can and must only be done with the greatest of care, if ever. It is certainly under attack. The attacks will come in various ways. People must be on guard against them, from all places, and must view all alterations with great discernment.

Who asked for the Rosary to be changed? Why this timing? Is this the end of it? And so on.

Exactly so.** But, many people do not understand the troubled times we are in, and think that things are much better than they are. So they become quite distraught at any suggestion matters are otherwise… because it interrupts a beautiful little dream…**

I empathize. But we have to live in reality… we must not be selfish.

*Dear Shin,

I am very saddened to read you saying this. I will have to say this is the most conceited and condescending comment I believe I have ever read.
But, I understand and do sincerely believe that you believe that you are acting in all charity.
I am sorry if adding the Luminous Mysteries did not have your permission to be added. But please get over it.
I personally believe that the very reason why the Luminous Mysteries were added and why people pray the Rosary with the Luminous Mysteries is because they do see, all too well, the evils that prevail in our hearts and the world and they want to do nothing more than to eradicate those evils right from their deepest reassesses.
How is that living in a “dream” or being “selfish?”
What I do see as being selfish is waisting our time coming up with reasons to blame all the errors we see in the world today on everyone else and not ourselves. Why is that?
Tell me, what is the “beautiful little dream” that you mentioned?
To me the “beautiful little dream” is to sacrifice my pride completely to God. To completely surrender myself to Him and His Word. How do we know what His Word is? Through our Apostolic Church’s Leaders. Now you want to come along and destroy that beautiful little dream by implying, either directly or indirectly, that because our Apostolic Church Leaders are corrupt the Holy Spirit will not prevail and they will lead us and guide us into error. To believe this will destroy my faith in Jesus’ promises that this will not happen and then I will have no faith in His Church. This is what will destroy the Church from the inside out. To me, this is what Satan wants to destroy most. If you keep saying things that make us not want to put our faith and trust in God’s promises, you are playing right into His hands. So yes it most certainly does upset me and what frustrates me is that you can not see it. So that is why I have to completely put my trust in God and pray that some day the Most Humble and Pure Heart of all will Triumph.
Or maybe I am just seeing something that is just not there.
So please keep me in your prayers,

 

[PioKolby]

*Dear Piokolby,

In the part that I emphasized I just have a few questions.
First, how does adding the Luminous Mysteries go against the one tradition of faith that unites the Church through the ages, and prove that Pope John Paul II did not rely utterly on the guidance of the Holy Spirit whom Jesus promised would lead his followers “into all the truth” (Jn 16:13),?
Second; how do you know* they were just made up?
Third; what exactly is the 'bad fruit" that resulted in adding them?

The point about fruit is where is the good fruit? We know the bad fruit is in the Church. The bad fruit is not linked intrinsically to adding the new rosary the bad fruit was already present in this age of error in the Church. My question was where are the miracles,vocations or some other manifest work of the almighty to confirm the new rosary is pleasing to heaven? Like this work of the almighty here youtube.com/watch?v=OwIu2LMGC-o The rosary with it’s 15 mysteries has a long list of graces and clearly is fruitful. So with the new rosary WHERE IS THE FRUIT? One bad fruit from the new rosary is Catholics are called to be of the same mind. Now more Catholics than before are not united in thought and practice. It strikes at the “one lord one faith one baptism” part of our Catholic life in the Latin rite. Like having two liturgies for the Latin rite now we have two rosaries. This holy priest covers the topic of “Divide and Conquer” which is my point here fssp.com/press/2010/10/october-reflection-divide-and-conquer/ If you can’t see how that is bad ask the Holy Ghost to show you what that person on the internet is talking about. To answer your question how do I know they were made up? I didn’t think that was questioned. Pope John Paul II as a pastoral act made a new rosary. Read the document he wrote on it. I don’t think this is disputed. To your other questions go back and read my posts I cover those questions in past posts. To undo the devils work of Divide and Conquer we need to be prayerfully linked in Charity to tradition and each other. All these new novelties make the hard task of unity even harder. Some would say by design.

 

[simple_soul]

The point about fruit is where is the good fruit? We know the bad fruit is in the Church. The bad fruit is not linked intrinsically to adding the new rosary the bad fruit was already present in this age of error in the Church. My question was where are the miracles,vocations or some other manifest work of the almighty to confirm the new rosary is pleasing to heaven? Like this work of the almighty here youtube.com/watch?v=OwIu2LMGC-o The rosary with it’s 15 mysteries has a long list of graces and clearly is fruitful. So with the new rosary WHERE IS THE FRUIT? One bad fruit from the new rosary is Catholics are called to be of the same mind. Now more Catholics than before are not united in thought and practice. It strikes at the “one lord one faith one baptism” part of our Catholic life in the Latin rite. Like having two liturgies for the Latin rite now we have two rosaries. This holy priest covers the topic of “Divide and Conquer” which is my point here fssp.com/press/2010/10/october-reflection-divide-and-conquer/ If you can’t see how that is bad ask the Holy Ghost to show you what that person on the internet is talking about. To answer your question how do I know they were made up? I didn’t think that was questioned. Pope John Paul II as a pastoral act made a new rosary. Read the document he wrote on it. I don’t think this is disputed. To your other questions go back and read my posts I cover those questions in past posts. To undo the devils work of Divide and Conquer we need to be prayerfully linked in Charity to tradition and each other. All these new novelties make the hard task of unity even harder. Some would say by design.

*Well, in all sincerity, maybe if we would start praying the Luminous Mysteries or just accepting that the Church in her wisdom is trying to help us undo the devil’s work of Divide and Conquer instead of adding them to the long list of other complaints that one might have about our Apostolic Church’s Leadership and Guidance, maybe then we would start seeing the good fruits of them.
I do not see the Church as doing things that divide us but doing things to try and unite us. We cause the division when we decide we know better than the our Apostolic Church Leaders do in their efforts to unite us and instead of working with them cause mass confusion to those who are looking to them for guidance.

Am I just imagining this?
Maybe I am but I do not think so,
But please do keep me in your prayers as you can see I so need them. *

 

[PioKolby]

*Well, in all sincerity, maybe if we would start praying the Luminous Mysteries or just accepting that the Church in her wisdom is trying to help us undo the devil’s work of Divide and Conquer instead of adding them to the long list of other complaints that one might have about our Apostolic Church’s Leadership and Guidance, maybe then we would start seeing the good fruits of them.
I do not see the Church as doing things that divide us but doing things to try and unite us. We cause the division when we decide we know better than the our Apostolic Church Leaders do in their efforts to unite us and instead of working with them cause mass confusion to those who are looking to them for guidance.

Am I just imagining this?
Maybe I am but I do not think so,
But please do keep me in your prayers as you can see I so need them. *

You are living in la la land. I am sure you are a kind holy soul but your are a nice kind holy soul in la la land. The rosary will live after this wicked age. The case for tradition has been made you have made your choice and I have made mine. I’ll pray for you please pray for me. Thank for the pollyanna view of the Church but the way you see it would be great if it were real but the Church you see in your mind isn’t the Church that is in the world at this time. Maybe some day but not yet. The holy rosary with it’s 15 mysteries will get the Church over the hump until our Blessed Lord shakes the dead wood from the tree. So we have 15 promises with the rosary does the new rosary have 20 promises? If so where do the 5 new promises come from?

1.  Whosoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces.

2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.

3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin and defeat heresies.

4.  It will cause good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire for Eternal Things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means

5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary shall not perish.

6. Whosoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of Eternal Life.

7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.

8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the Light of God and the plenitude of His Graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the Merits of the Saints in Paradise.

9. I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.

10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of Glory in Heaven.

11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by recitation of the Rosary.

12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.

13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire Celestial Court during their life and at the hour of death.

14. All who recite the Rosary are my Sons, and brothers of my Only Son Jesus Christ.

15. Devotion to my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.

I see we are in an age of apostasy and heresy equal only to the time of arianism when most of the Church both laymen & clergy denied the divinity of our Lord. Those who refused to break with tradition were right then and they are right now. I know it doesn’t “feel” that way but it is true.

 

[Shin]

Simple Soul, I would never want your faith to be shaken.

You seem to have drawn some conclusions from what I have said that I did not intend… I am trying to sort through it all and make a reply that clarifies things. My apologies…

Please remember in some things the authorities can fail, in others they cannot… where they can fail… we must understand the human condition… these people are human too… God is with them… and so too are they themselves… with all the damage humans can do…

Trust is beautiful… I have gone through some crises this way too… regarding priests and bishops and Popes, who did not act to do what could have been done to stop so many many tragedies…

Certainly there are many failings within ourselves… but do we criticize children for being in pain, when adults are the causes…? Do we blame one or the other… I have not been blaming here… I have been discussing actions and facts, and perhaps we could discuss responsibility, rather than guilt…

God has given it to me, to have the Faith… no matter how terrible within or without the trials and troubles… They do not touch the Faith… and I never say anything intending for anyone to have anything other than a simple and pure faith. .

I have to say that when someone corrects me I am happy to have no longer a mistake or error in my judgement, but to know the truth… so too I think any person should be, and is… so I think that even Popes… appreciate people who help them not to make mistakes more than those who support them in them… I am thinking of St. Padre Pio… If I had made a mistake… I would not want to be supported in that… as if I were more than I am, out of a mistaken love for me that would be unwilling to help me out of it or think I could make it… but rather helped out of it.

People who are in love do not see any flaws in what they love… often enough… ‘love is blind’… But we have to love clearly…

If it is too much for you to do, do what is best for your faith and keep it is simple as necessary to keep it whole and intact… you must never lose the Faith.

There is no other place than the Catholic Church that is reality, beyond faith, God created and founded it, an everlasting truth.

 

[StTommyMore]

You are living in la la land. I am sure you are a kind holy soul but your are a nice kind holy soul in la la land. The rosary will live after this wicked age. The case for tradition has been made you have made your choice and I have made mine. I’ll pray for you please pray for me. Thank for the pollyanna view of the Church but the way you see it would be great if it were real but the Church you see in your mind isn’t the Church that is in the world at this time. Maybe some day but not yet. The holy rosary with it’s 15 mysteries will get the Church over the hump until our Blessed Lord shakes the dead wood from the tree. So we have 15 promises with the rosary does the new rosary have 20 promises? If so where do the 5 new promises come from?

1.  Whosoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces.

2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.

3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin and defeat heresies.

4.  It will cause good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire for Eternal Things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means

5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary shall not perish.

6. Whosoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of Eternal Life.

7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.

8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the Light of God and the plenitude of His Graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the Merits of the Saints in Paradise.

9. I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.

10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of Glory in Heaven.

11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by recitation of the Rosary.

12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.

13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire Celestial Court during their life and at the hour of death.

14. All who recite the Rosary are my Sons, and brothers of my Only Son Jesus Christ.

15. Devotion to my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.

I see we are in an age of apostasy and heresy equal only to the time of arianism when most of the Church both laymen & clergy denied the divinity of our Lord. Those who refused to break with tradition were right then and they are right now. I know it doesn’t “feel” that way but it is true.

Vatican 2 Restored Tradition. Thanks to this Council, the Church bears a closer resemblance to the early Church.

 

[simple_soul]

Simple Soul, I would never want your faith to be shaken.

You seem to have drawn some conclusions from what I have said that I did not intend… I am trying to sort through it all and make a reply that clarifies things. My apologies…

Please remember in some things the authorities can fail, in others they cannot… where they can fail… we must understand the human condition… these people are human too… God is with them… and so too are they themselves… with all the damage humans can do…

Trust is beautiful… I have gone through some crises this way too… regarding priests and bishops and Popes, who did not act to do what could have been done to stop so many many tragedies…

Certainly there are many failings within ourselves… but do we criticize children for being in pain, when adults are the causes…? Do we blame one or the other… I have not been blaming here… I have been discussing actions and facts, and perhaps we could discuss responsibility, rather than guilt…

God has given it to me, to have the Faith… no matter how terrible within or without the trials and troubles… They do not touch the Faith… and I never say anything intending for anyone to have anything other than a simple and pure faith. .

I have to say that when someone corrects me I am happy to have no longer a mistake or error in my judgement, but to know the truth… so too I think any person should be, and is… so I think that even Popes… appreciate people who help them not to make mistakes more than those who support them in them… I am thinking of St. Padre Pio… If I had made a mistake… I would not want to be supported in that… as if I were more than I am, out of a mistaken love for me that would be unwilling to help me out of it or think I could make it… but rather helped out of it.

People who are in love do not see any flaws in what they love… often enough… ‘love is blind’… But we have to love clearly…

If it is too much for you to do, do what is best for your faith and keep it is simple as necessary to keep it whole and intact… you must never lose the Faith.

There is no other place than the Catholic Church that is reality, beyond faith, God created and founded it, an everlasting truth.

*Dear Shin,

Please do not get me wrong. My faith is not shaken. God has gotten me through to much for any of your words to slake me loose from the Rock that I cling to.
I do not believe I am making myself very clear or understood.
The one and only point I am trying to make is, no matter how corrupt we believe our Apostolic Church Leaders are we have the promise that the Holy Spirit will guide them and lead them into the fullness of Truth, God Himself, Jesus Christ.

In order for us to understand what God’s Truth is, we have to listen to how He is speaking to us through our Apostolic Church Leaders. No matter how corrupt we “think” they might be.
If my desire for doing God’s will by understanding the fullness of His Truth as revealed to me through our Apostolic Church Leaders causes you to believe I me to have a blind Trust and Faith in them, then SO BE IT!*

 

[Shin]

Do you remember St. Peter and St. Paul? Do you take it into account?

If so what are we in conflict about?

 

[simple_soul]

You are living in la la land. I am sure you are a kind holy soul but your are a nice kind holy soul in la la land. The rosary will live after this wicked age. The case for tradition has been made you have made your choice and I have made mine. I’ll pray for you please pray for me. Thank for the pollyanna view of the Church but the way you see it would be great if it were real but the Church you see in your mind isn’t the Church that is in the world at this time. Maybe some day but not yet. The holy rosary with it’s 15 mysteries will get the Church over the hump until our Blessed Lord shakes the dead wood from the tree. So we have 15 promises with the rosary does the new rosary have 20 promises? If so where do the 5 new promises come from?

1.  Whosoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces.

2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.

3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin and defeat heresies.

4.  It will cause good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire for Eternal Things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means

5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary shall not perish.

6. Whosoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of Eternal Life.

7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.

8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the Light of God and the plenitude of His Graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the Merits of the Saints in Paradise.

9. I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.

10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of Glory in Heaven.

11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by recitation of the Rosary.

12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.

13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire Celestial Court during their life and at the hour of death.

14. All who recite the Rosary are my Sons, and brothers of my Only Son Jesus Christ.

15. Devotion to my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.

I see we are in an age of apostasy and heresy equal only to the time of arianism when most of the Church both laymen & clergy denied the divinity of our Lord. Those who refused to break with tradition were right then and they are right now. I know it doesn’t “feel” that way but it is true.

*Like I have said before and will say again, I put my faith and trust into the one Tradition that that I believe trumps these traditions and symbolisms that you have based your case for tradition on. The one Tradition of faith that unites the Church through the ages and relies utterly on the guidance of the Holy Spirit whom Jesus promised would lead his followers “into all the truth” (Jn 16:13).
To me, not doing this, is denying the Divinity of Jesus Christ.
*

 

[simple_soul]

Do you remember St. Peter and St. Paul? Do you take it into account?

If so what are we in conflict about?

Yes I do and I know that St. Peter and St. Paul are Apostolic Leaders of our church. I am NOT. Are you?

 

[Shin]

I am a child of the Church, who may speak about such matters, and whom charity may make speak about such matters.