New rules for declarations of nullity

[thistle]

In my opinion it should not be made easy to get an annulment. Too many people take the easy way out and walk away from the marriage. I realise I am generalising but what I say probably applies to the majority. People do not make an effort to fix their marriage.

 

[Kielbasi]

In my opinion it should not be made easy to get an annulment. Too many people take the easy way out and walk away from the marriage. I realise I am generalising but what I say probably applies to the majority. People do not make an effort to fix their marriage.

Maybe you don’t realize this, but there isn’t a marriage to fix- whether an effort is made or not, in the case of an annulment.

That’s what annulment means, a declaration that the putative marriage never existed.

 

[jeannetherese]

Maybe you don’t realize this, but there isn’t a marriage to fix- whether an effort is made or not, in the case of an annulment.

That’s what annulment means, a declaration that the putative marriage never existed.

That would be the case in a situation in which the marriage was found to be invalid.
However, not every case submitted to the tribunal is found to be invalid; there are cases in which a marriage is determined to be in existence.
If I am reading thistle rightly, s/he is suggesting that in a determination of such import, it is reasonable to spend time on research and deliberation and for theparties involved to make every effort to support marriage prior to submitting a possible annumlmet case to the tribunal.
Such action may result in fewer submissions being determined to be actual marriages.
May God bless all who visit this thread.
Amen.

 

[Phemie]

That would be the case in a situation in which the marriage was found to be invalid.
However, not every case submitted to the tribunal is found to be invalid; there are cases in which a marriage is determined to be in existence.
If I am reading thistle rightly, s/he is suggesting that in a determination of such import, it is reasonable to spend time on research and deliberation and for theparties involved to make every effort to support marriage prior to submitting a possible annumlmet case to the tribunal.
Such action may result in fewer submissions being determined to be actual marriages.
May God bless all who visit this thread.
Amen.

Since a divorce has already occurred, and more often than not a new civil marriage, what is there to support by delaying?

Yes, the examination must be done in detail to assure that decrees are not handed out willy-nilly, but I doubt any Tribunal is dragging its feet so the petitioner and respondent have time to think it over.

 

[thistle]

Maybe you don’t realize this, but there isn’t a marriage to fix- whether an effort is made or not, in the case of an annulment.

That’s what annulment means, a declaration that the putative marriage never existed.

There IS a marriage to fix unless an anullment is given and the Church teaches that every effort must be made into saving the relationship before any separation or other steps are taken in case you didn’t realise it.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Do you believe it is necessary for you well being?

no.

 

[Phemie]

There IS a marriage to fix unless an anullment is given and the Church teaches that every effort must be made into saving the relationship before any separation or other steps are taken in case you didn’t realise it.

The requirement is that there be no possibility of reconciliation. In Canada and the US, and perhaps many more countries, you can’t petition for a decree of nullity until you’re divorced since it’s at that point that they consider that there is no likely possibility of reconciliation.

 

[Kielbasi]

In Canada and the US, and perhaps many more countries, you can’t petition for a decree of nullity until you’re divorced

I don’t think that’s 100% accurate, if a marriage is civilly annulled by a judge, can’t the people petition for a decree of nullity?

 

[jeannetherese]

Since a divorce has already occurred, and more often than not a new civil marriage, what is there to support by delaying?

Yes, the examination must be done in detail to assure that decrees are not handed out willy-nilly, but I doubt any Tribunal is dragging its feet so the petitioner and respondent have time to think it over.

Whether or not a civil marriage has occurred, post divorce, a thorough investigation seems appropriate, in order to ensure a sound judgement vis-a vis nullity. Like you, I doubt that any Tribunal would drag its feet.
May God bless you and all who visit this thread.
Amen.

 

[Phemie]

I don’t think that’s 100% accurate, if a marriage is civilly annulled by a judge, can’t the people petition for a decree of nullity?

I hadn’t considered a civil annulment but I presume that, yes, that would count too since civilly no marriage exists. What could be more final than that other than death?

 

[thistle]

The requirement is that there be no possibility of reconciliation. In Canada and the US, and perhaps many more countries, you can’t petition for a decree of nullity until you’re divorced since it’s at that point that they consider that there is no likely possibility of reconciliation.

You are correct. Assuming no chance of reconciliation despite great efforts to mend things then a separation is permitted.
You are also correct that nobody can commence annulment proceedings without a legal divorce being in place first.

 

[thistle]

What I find sad about the USA is that it has only 6% of the world’s Catholics but more than 80% of all annulments.
That suggests to me that annulments are too easy to get there and that not much effort is actually put into saving a relationship.

 

[petra22]

no.

That is funny wierd to me! Is someone pressuring you to do this? If you don’t believe it is necessary why did you do it? Doesn’t make sense!

 

[Phemie]

What I find sad about the USA is that it has only 6% of the world’s Catholics but more than 80% of all annulments.
That suggests to me that annulments are too easy to get there and that not much effort is actually put into saving a relationship.

We can’t begin to theorize that it’s because annulments are too easy to obtain. There are various things in place that account for that high rate:

North America has a high percentage of mixed-marriages and often the non-Catholic party was previously married. In that rate of annulments are those petitioned for by non-Catholics wanting to marry a Catholic or remarried non-Catholics wanting to become Catholic.

IIRC, that statistic also includes those Catholics who were previously civilly married and seek a document that they are free to marry based on lack of form. Those weren’t even marriages to begin with.

While it’s not fair to say that they are too easily obtained in the US, one must acknowledge that it’s much easier to petition for an annulment than it is in many other countries. That’s not a bad thing, it simply means that Catholics can easily attempt to fix irregular situations, something not easily done in many other countries.

If the process is too onerous people simply won’t bother. It doesn’t mean they won’t contract a new civil marriage with the danger to their immortal soul that that entails.

 

[mgstf]

Have you made the effort to stay in touch with your advocate? You state you can’t remember his/her name.

The process is not a sham, it is the church making the best decision on determining if a marriage existed. In some dioceses there is a huge back log in cases due to the new rules. Are you saying your case should go before others who filed before you. You stated you started the process two years ago and your file was completed 5 months ago. So it appears it took witnesses 18 months to provide statements. Nothing can happen on a case until all the information is gathered. I believe it is unfair to blame the diocese for something that is not their fault.

The best thing you can do is find out who your advocate is and get in touch with that person.

I came seeking an answer to a technical question about how that appeals process works: I did not come to seek your insults or insinuations.

Of the two years of my process, three months have been due to waiting for responses from my wintesses. No I do not expect my case to go before anyone elses, and wonder why you care to judge someone you do not know with such an insinuation.

I guess I used the incorrect term “advocate” for lack of the correct term. My parish priest is my advocate, and he has done almost nothing. He offered no advice for the preparation of the forms, and has not had a single word with me since sending in the forms. I am not sure what the name of the person is in the Diocese that took the evidence presented and made a case for us. In any case, that person has made no contact with me in two years, except for having sent a letter stating the grounds for which the annulment would be sought.

I understand if these things take time. But what things? It is a ridiculous stretch of the imagination to think that with a single application form (with absurd length limitations), and and two interviews, with no follow up questioning or requests for further information , testimony or clarifications that anyone could possibly come to “moral certitude” about such complex issues of people they have never met.

So, maybe the term “sham” was a bit harsh, but it is absolutely clear to me that the process that I have experienced has NO possibility or reaching a conclusion based on sufficient information. My future is going to be determined by the whim of someone who either did not have the interest, or did not have the ability to explore the merits of the case to any reasonable degree.

I came to this process with full support of the idea that the Church has every right and the best intentions of supporting the sacrament, and through the tribunal would take these interests seriously. Through this process I have come to realize that my confidence in the Diocese was unfounded.