New saints and new prefaces

[MarkThompson]

Universae Ecclesiae states:
25. New saints and certain of the new prefaces can and ought to be inserted into the 1962 Missal, according to provisions which will be indicated subsequently.
Your thoughts?

 

[Warrenton]

Which new saints, and which new prefaces?

Thanks!

 

[Stavros]

My thoughts:

1. Sure wish I wouldn’t have blown a wad of money on a new missal last month.
2. One of the reasons that I started going to Latin Mass to begin with was because I was dreading the changes in the Novus Ordo. :banghead:

Hopefully the changes will come out as a suppliment addition for the current missal.

 

[MarkThompson]

Now the poll is active; I didn’t realize this post would go live before I was done with it.

Unfortunately part of the intro was chopped off. It should have said:

Pope Benedict plans to update the 1962 Missal with some post-1962 saints and prefaces. The closest statement to my view is that this plan is …

 

[BenedictOblate]

My thoughts:

1. Sure wish I wouldn’t have blown a wad of money on a new missal last month.
2. One of the reasons that I started going to Latin Mass to begin with was because I was dreading the changes in the Novus Ordo. :banghead:

Hopefully the changes will come out as a suppliment addition for the current missal.

Just out of curiosity, what did you not like about the changes in the new translation?

 

[ProVobis]

Just out of curiosity, what did you not like about the changes in the new translation?

Who said anything about translations? We’re talking about adding prefaces, collects, secrets, and post-communion prayers (yes, in Latin) into the EF. It’s a great opportunity for Latin and Catholic (Universal) scholars to get involved in the organic growth of the EF. I think it’s great.

 

[laszlo]

The unfortunate problem is with the electives that unless there is strict regulation, it results in chaos. For this insertion of the new saints and new prefaces the minimum requirement would be, that only those masses and prayers can be used, which are explicitly approved by the Ordinary (e.g. sending inserts, as it was in the good old times).

I fear that even the possibility that the reading and the Gospel can be read in vernacular only, will result in problem. The ‘how to read’ is not defined.

Some priests will turn toward the people on the lesson side; then following with the Gradual and at the middle the Munda cor; turn again toward the people on the Gospel side for the Gospel.

Others will go to the ambo, read the lesson, go back to the lesson side for the gradual, to the middle for the Munda cor, and again to the ambo for the Gospel

Others will not go back to the altar for the Gradual and the Munda cor, but as practical will read the gradual from the bilingual Missal.

It is a further question what to do with the maniple.

There will be a temptation to read from the new Lectionary, and also to let lay reader read the lesson.

 

[Theophorus]

I really don’t see a problem with updating the missal to include new Saints. Our liturgical life cannot be mummified or crystallised in 1962. Pope St. Pius V and many of his successors right up to Pope John XXIII updated the Missal used in the EF. This missal, venerable and precious as it is, is not a museum piece but rather an integral part of our Roman rite.

I for one would love to see the feasts of Saints Pio and Maximilian Kolbe celebrated in the EF calendar

 

[BenedictOblate]

Who said anything about translations? We’re talking about adding prefaces, collects, secrets, and post-communion prayers (yes, in Latin) into the EF. It’s a great opportunity for Latin and Catholic (Universal) scholars to get involved in the organic growth of the EF. I think it’s great.

I’m sorry ProVobis if I misread Stravos’ second thought. Maybe I misunderstood what Stravos meant by “2) One of the reasons that I started going to Latin Mass to begin with was because I was dreading the changes in the Novus Ordo.”

What do you think Stravos meant by that point?

 

[BenedictOblate]

My question may have been lost in the thread-stream so am bumping it in case ProVobis or Stavros missed the question.

If you don’t want to answer it’s no big deal. I just wanted to make the thread easier to find in case you missed it.

 

[MikeDunphy]

I really don’t see a problem with updating the missal to include new Saints. Our liturgical life cannot be mummified or crystallised in 1962.

I agree! It should be crystallised in 1955!

Seriously, I really would like the canon of the Mass to be restored to its traditional form (sorry, St. Joseph) and the TLM preserved from “renewal” until a generation arrives who is less eager to tinker with what it has received, and more capable of finding fitting words for new prayers, when they are needed. Not that I have the slightest expectation of getting what I’d like in this regard.

 

[mattheus09]

My thoughts:

1. Sure wish I wouldn’t have blown a wad of money on a new missal last month.
2. One of the reasons that I started going to Latin Mass to begin with was because I was dreading the changes in the Novus Ordo. :banghead:

Hopefully the changes will come out as a suppliment addition for the current missal.

My guess is that companies that produce 1962 hand missals (Baronius Press for example) will issue inserts or little insert booklets to add to your missal. I doubt companies would publish a new addition every time a saint is added, it would cost too much.

 

[Biedrik]

I really don’t see a problem with updating the missal to include new Saints. Our liturgical life cannot be mummified or crystallised in 1962. Pope St. Pius V and many of his successors right up to Pope John XXIII updated the Missal used in the EF. This missal, venerable and precious as it is, is not a museum piece but rather an integral part of our Roman rite.

I for one would love to see the feasts of Saints Pio and Maximilian Kolbe celebrated in the EF calendar

I’m gonna agree with this. Saints have been added to the calendar by every Pope, and I think that there have been plenty of saints since 1962 who are deserving of their own feast day. The adding of saints to the calendar is hardly some “modernization”. It’s a normal part of the development of the liturgy.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

I agree! It should be crystallised in 1955!

Seriously, I really would like the canon of the Mass to be restored to its traditional form (sorry, St. Joseph) and the TLM preserved from “renewal” until a generation arrives who is less eager to tinker with what it has received, and more capable of finding fitting words for new prayers, when they are needed. Not that I have the slightest expectation of getting what I’d like in this regard.

I have my Saint Andrews 1945 edition Missal and I must say if anyone wanted to take it from me they will have to pry it from my cold dead fingers.

 

[JReducation]

Saints have been added at three levels and most people never realized it.

Universal Church: the Holy See added saints and holy days or deleted some

National Conferences: we have always had certain days that are observed in some countries and not in others. I remember being in South America where the Assumption is a feast, not a solemnity and the feast of St. James is a major solemnity, because he’s the patron. There are other examples.

Religious: the major religious orders have always had our own calendars. We had our own version of the Roman Missal. In my own family it was called the Seraphic Missal. Today we have the Roman-Franciscan Missal. We have Mother Teresa and John XXIII on our calendar, because both were part of the Franciscan family. The Franciscans of the Immaculate are already working on a new edition of the EF to accommodate the Franciscan holy days. Hopefully, when they finish, the rest of the obediences will have access to it. They have a friar who is an expert in liturgy, language and Franciscan theology leading the project. The Vatican has approved it. Eventually the Jesuits will do it, the Augustinians will, the Benedictines and any of the major orders of men that have always had their own missals, reactionaries and calendars. If these men are at your parish, you will see these subtle differences.

The point is that adding and deleting saints and holy days is not new. There is also a request in to unify the two calendars so that everyone is celebrating the same seasons. For example, right now the EF and the OF are not in the same season. If you’re talking about one rite, your seasons should be the same within the rite.

None of this affects the form.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[InquisitorMax]

I’d be happy if feasts were celebrated on the correct days and not transferred.

The old rite ‘scene’ I’m in has enough problems getting a schola together and suchlike
without having to contend with yet another revision of the missal.

I think it would be like hanging a weight on a growing sapling; not the best move at this time.

 

[Theophorus]

I’d be happy if feasts were celebrated on the correct days and not transferred.

The old rite ‘scene’ I’m in has enough problems getting a schola together and suchlike
without having to contend with yet another revision of the missal.

I think it would be like hanging a weight on a growing sapling; not the best move at this time.

There hasn’t been a revision of the EF Missal since 1962!

The Missal introduced post-VII is a New Missal (Cf.Summorum Pontificum and Universae Ecclesiae) and so from a revision point of view in a separate category. But I understand your point about making changes.

That being said, one way of showing the wider church that the EF is a living form of the Roman Rite is to add saints to the Calender. Historically, the Calendar of Saints and Feast days is the most revised part of the Missal. I do believe that it would be beneficial for more recent saints to have a place in the Calendar as well.

 

[ProVobis]

My guess is that companies that produce 1962 hand missals (Baronius Press for example) will issue inserts or little insert booklets to add to your missal. I doubt companies would publish a new addition every time a saint is added, it would cost too much.

Perhaps an IPod or Kindle version could work for the new saints. Bear in mind, that most of these saints could be for weekday Masses where buying a whole new missal may not be needed every couple of years or so.

 

[Theophorus]

Perhaps an IPod or Kindle version could work for the new saints. Bear in mind, that most of these saints could be for weekday Masses where buying a whole new missal may not be needed every couple of years or so.

Is there a kindle edition of the 1962 Missal Currently available? not PDF format that is.
I would get it for travelling.