New to breviary; confused today

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Magnum_V8

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I’ve just recently begun praying the Divine Office according to the pre-Vatican II Diurnale Romanum. I feel fairly competent in setting it up at the right page marks. Actually, I check my work against the set-up on divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl.

I have that webpage set for the 1960 rubrics to coincide with my book.

Well, today, in setting it for Lauds, I figured that I’d be using the Chapter from the Proper of the Saints, July 22 St. Mary Magdalene: Mulierem fortem …

However, the website has the Chapter from the Common of a Virgin, but Martyr only (Pro Martyre tantum): Confitebor tibi… The website has this listed as from the Proper of the Saints. But according to my book, its in the Common of the Saints.

Is the website inaccurate on this? Help is appreciated.
 
Magnum_V8 said:
I’ve just recently begun praying the Divine Office according to the pre-Vatican II Diurnale Romanum. I feel fairly competent in setting it up at the right page marks. Actually, I check my work against the set-up on divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl.

I have that webpage set for the 1960 rubrics to coincide with my book.

Well, today, in setting it for Lauds, I figured that I’d be using the Chapter from the Proper of the Saints, July 22 St. Mary Magdalene: Mulierem fortem …

However, the website has the Chapter from the Common of a Virgin, but Martyr only (Pro Martyre tantum): Confitebor tibi… The website has this listed as from the Proper of the Saints. But according to my book, its in the Common of the Saints.

Is the website inaccurate on this? Help is appreciated.
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Are the Proper of the Saints and the Common of the Saints not the same thing?
 
Are the Proper of the Saints and the Common of the Saints not the same thing?

No, they are NOT the same thing.
 
AJV said:
You are correct- you must use Mulierem fortem.
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Thanks.

Now how about the Antiphon, verse and prayer for the commemoration of St. Liborius for vespers this evening?

I think it is:
Ant. Euge, serve bone…
V. Iustum deduxit…
Oratio. Da, quaesumus…

Back on the website, it has:
Ant. Sacerdos et Pontifex…
V. Amavit eum…

The “Sacerdos” antiphon I can’t even find in my Diurnale Romanum.
 
Magnum_V8 said:
Thanks.

Now how about the Antiphon, verse and prayer for the commemoration of St. Liborius for vespers this evening?
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Ant. Sacerdos et Pontifex…
V. Amavit eum…

under First Vespers from the Common of a Confessor Bishop.

Ant. Euge, serve bone…V. Iustum deduxit… will be used at Lauds.

But which rubrics are you using?
 
Dear Magnum V8,

where did you buy your pre-Vatican II Diurnale Romanum? is it very complicated versus existing post vatican divine office? does it come in english? is there some type of manual that helps you transition into this office?

Are we creating two churches within one? this is my concern? i am a traditional catholic but my biggest concern is creating two churches within one.

Allan :confused:
 
allan_frederick said:
Dear Magnum V8,

where did you buy your pre-Vatican II Diurnale Romanum? is it very complicated versus existing post vatican divine office? does it come in english? is there some type of manual that helps you transition into this office?

Are we creating two churches within one? this is my concern? i am a traditional catholic but my biggest concern is creating two churches within one.

Allan :confused:
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Private devotions are private devotions. How can you infer that someone is contributing to the creation of a new church by worshiping God with his prayers of choice?
 
Dear Magnum,

no, no please don’ misunderstand my comments. i believe that as Catholics we have freedom to worship in our own style. The Divine Office is a case in point so is the Mass we can worship the Tredentine Mass or the regular Post Vatican II Mass.

My concern as an example is that today in the Post Vatican II Office we celebrate St. Bridget but in the office that you are praying you are celebrating St, Apolicarp. Shouldn’t we all as one church be celebrating the same saint?

This is an example of what concern me. Two forms which is fine but two totally different calendar Why??? Doesn’t make sense to me???

We must be carefull that in our zeal to express our individuality which I have no problem with we dont brake the unity of one church, one God, one message, one doctrine etc.

this is just my opinion. There no offense behind my questions, just concerns thats all.

God Bless you.

Allan
 
allan_frederick said:
Dear Magnum V8,

where did you buy your pre-Vatican II Diurnale Romanum? is it very complicated versus existing post vatican divine office? does it come in english? is there some type of manual that helps you transition into this office?

Are we creating two churches within one? this is my concern? i am a traditional catholic but my biggest concern is creating two churches within one.

Allan :confused:
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Allan,

I bought my Diurnale here: pcpbooks.com/new_books_pages/diurnale.htm

I can’t compare it to the new Liturgy of the Hours because I never prayed that. My book is entirely in Latin, but English and Latin-English versions do exist. I know of one in the process of being completed: lulu.com/content/1947790

There is a book I just ordered that is intended to help you learn the pre-Vatican II breviary: pcpbooks.com/new_books_pages/learning_the_new_breviary.htm
 
allan_frederick said:
Dear Magnum,

no, no please don’ misunderstand my comments. i believe that as Catholics we have freedom to worship in our own style. The Divine Office is a case in point so is the Mass we can worship the Tredentine Mass or the regular Post Vatican II Mass.

My concern as an example is that today in the Post Vatican II Office we celebrate St. Bridget but in the office that you are praying you are celebrating St, Apolicarp. Shouldn’t we all as one church be celebrating the same saint?

This is an example of what concern me. Two forms which is fine but two totally different calendar Why??? Doesn’t make sense to me???

We must be carefull that in our zeal to express our individuality which I have no problem with we dont brake the unity of one church, one God, one message, one doctrine etc.

this is just my opinion. There no offense behind my questions, just concerns thats all.

God Bless you.

Allan
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Sure! If the Holy Father wants to unify the calendar, no problem here…Then I’d get a feast day of St. Padre Pio at the Tridentine Mass and in the old Office. Perfect!

The only problem would be that the ton of money I’ve spent on pre-Vatican II liturgical books would be…well… :mad: :mad: :mad:

But, really, is this creating two Churches? No, its not. Modernists and Progressives have done more for that than anything else.
 
AJV said:
Ant. Sacerdos et Pontifex…
V. Amavit eum…

under First Vespers from the Common of a Confessor Bishop.

Ant. Euge, serve bone…V. Iustum deduxit… will be used at Lauds.

But which rubrics are you using?
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Thanks a bunch.

1960 rubrics.
 
Lapell said:
Well, can you explain me the difference? I was not trying to joke, you know…
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The Common of Saints contains the parts that are common to many saints of a certain ‘type’ - e.g. virgins, martyrs, confessors, doctors, etc.

The Proper of Saints gives the parts that are “proper” or specific to a particular saint. This is printed under the name of each saint. (The saints are arranged according to the calendar feastday)

Most of the time, collects are always “proper” i.e. (more or less) unique for that saint. For Matins in the Traditional breviary, the “legend” of the saint is also almost always “proper”. Sometimes, the antiphons, responsories and the other parts are as well, in which case they are printed under the saint’s name in the Proper of Saints.

{Note: Sometimes, in the Proper there *may * be indicated texts that are not actually “proper” to the saint but from the Common. This is for convenience. It cuts down on page flipping and is useful when there are multiple texts given as options.]
 
AJV said:
Out of curiosity, why were you commemorating St. Liberius yesterday? Wouldn’t it have been today?
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Well, this is probably where you can educate me.

I was testing my set-up against divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl#. You’ll see that I have the rubrics for that site set to 1960. Now, they could be wrong.

It shows Vespers for July 22 as for the feast of St. Apollinaris III class] (July 23), with a commemoration of St. Mary Magdalene and St. Liborius. Like I mentioned in the original post, I’m new to this and this was another thing that confused me.

Does this have something to do with being 1st Vespers? The Table of Concurrence chart in my English rubrical guide indicates that a 3rd class feast has Vespers of the following day, and nothing of the current. The Table of Concurrence in my Diurnale says the same thing.

If you can shed some light on this, I’d appreciate it.
 
Magnum_V8 said:
Well, this is probably where you can educate me.

I was testing my set-up against divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl#. You’ll see that I have the rubrics for that site set to 1960. Now, they could be wrong.

It shows Vespers for July 22 as for the feast of St. Apollinaris III class] (July 23), with a commemoration of St. Mary Magdalene and St. Liborius. Like I mentioned in the original post, I’m new to this and this was another thing that confused me.

Does this have something to do with being 1st Vespers? The Table of Concurrence chart in my English rubrical guide indicates that a 3rd class feast has Vespers of the following day, and nothing of the current. The Table of Concurrence in my Diurnale says the same thing.

If you can shed some light on this, I’d appreciate it.
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I was thinking that that site has not yet fully configured it’s program to the 1960 rubrics. Prior to 1956, all feasts of semidouble rank and above had First Vespers. That is why June 22 has St. Apollinaris.
 
My Dear Brothers in Christ;

This will sound stupid forgive me but, the Roman Breviary 1962 is in Latin. I assume that everyone that prays this Breviary knows latin? what happens if one want to pray this breviary but does not know latin? Does anyone know of any organization that is in the process of translating the breviary into english?

Thanks for your help.

God Bless All

Allan
 
allan_frederick said:
My Dear Brothers in Christ;

This will sound stupid forgive me but, the Roman Breviary 1962 is in Latin. I assume that everyone that prays this Breviary knows latin? what happens if one want to pray this breviary but does not know latin? Does anyone know of any organization that is in the process of translating the breviary into english?

Thanks for your help.

God Bless All

Allan
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Check the Lulu.com link I gave you in post #10.

In my opinion, you don’t need to be perfectly fluent in Latin to pray the Latin Breviary. The Ordinary is fairly simple and easy enough to memorize the English translation. And for the Psalms, you could look up the Psalm in an English bible and pray from that.

And, by the way, there are at least two websites I know of that have the pre-Vatican II breviary —albeit different versions— in English and Latin.

Also, I have heard good things about an Anglican breviary, which is entirely in English, and a Monastic Diurnal which is English and Latin. The Monastic Diurnal is largely unchanged since St. Benedict formed it. I had seriously considered getting that one.
 
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