New (to me) contraception argument

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Ok here is the short story. I heard from a person that the “pill” is acceptable because it does not violate the openess to life. THe argument was since it is not 100% effective there is still a chance of conception…meaning that a contracepting couple are leaving it up to God because it is still leaving the possibility of life (a small one at that)

By the way I don’t buy the argument and consider the “pill” an intrinsic evil. Not only because it blocks the transmission of life but also because of its occaisional abortifacient properties.
 
:rolleyes:

The pill takes a healthy bodily system and renders it dysfunctional. Even if there is a chance that the dysfunctional system might do what it was intended to do, it has still been intentionally altered from its healthy state. That’s not openness to life. That’s like saying that putting a bullet in your head or jumping off a bridge is being open to life, since there’s a possibility that you might survive both.
 
:rolleyes:

The pill takes a healthy bodily system and renders it dysfunctional. Even if there is a chance that the dysfunctional system might do what it was intended to do, it has still been intentionally altered from its healthy state. That’s not openness to life. That’s like saying that putting a bullet in your head or jumping off a bridge is being open to life, since there’s a possibility that you might survive both.
I do believe that you pretty much summed up this thread…
 
by this logic if I purchased a gun with the intent to murder someone, and fired at him point blank, but the gun failed to discharge, I would not be guilty of attempted murder.
 
Ok here is the short story. I heard from a person that the “pill” is acceptable because it does not violate the openess to life. THe argument was since it is not 100% effective there is still a chance of conception…meaning that a contracepting couple are leaving it up to God because it is still leaving the possibility of life (a small one at that)

By the way I don’t buy the argument and consider the “pill” an intrinsic evil. Not only because it blocks the transmission of life but also because of its occaisional abortifacient properties.
The issue is what the pope communicated verses what the person understood. Open to life means occurring through the natural design(which is procreative). An attempt to alter the natural design opposes the definition. The pill is designed to prevent egg production specifically to alter the natural process from procreative, to non-procreative. It is also important to be fully catholic, the pill has never been proven to be “abortifacient” not a single known abortion, not one, not ever, please bear that in mind.
 
The issue is what the pope communicated verses what the person understood. Open to life means occurring through the natural design(which is procreative). An attempt to alter the natural design opposes the definition. The pill is designed to prevent egg production specifically to alter the natural process from procreative, to non-procreative. It is also important to be fully catholic, the pill has never been proven to be “abortifacient” not a single known abortion, not one, not ever, please bear that in mind.
Taken from pfli.org/faq_oc.html

***Q. I have heard some people say the pill has an abortifacient capacity. What does this word mean, and is it really true anyway?

A. Before answering this question it is very important that we all have a correct understanding of the key biological terms related to pregnancy. The following definitions have been accept by major medical texts for decades.

‘Conception’ refers to the moment at which the sperm penetrates and fertilises the ovum to form a viable zygote. It does not refer to the process of implantation of the newly created human embryo, which is a separate event, occurring about 7-8 day’s after conception. A woman is pregnant because conception has occurred, not because implantation has occurred. This distinction is important.

At the precise and unique moment of conception, a woman is ‘pregnant’ with "a new individual “. This is an accurate and informed medical description. It is the same terminology used by Prof. John Dwyer, pre-eminent Australian AIDS expert and researcher, who has described the moment that the sperm enters the ovum as the creation of a “new and unique individual”. Well known medical writer, Professor Derek Llewellyn-Jones, author of Everywoman, has also written that when the male genetic material from the sperm joins with the female genetic material in the ovum, " a new individual is formed”.

To stop conception occurring, that is, to stop sperm and ovum joining, is contraception. Condoms, diaphragms, spermicides, vasectomy and tubal ligation are accurately described as methods of contraception. Obviously any drug or device used after conception has occurred cannot be termed a contraceptive.

The correct term to describe any interference with the pregnancy after conception has occurred is ‘abortifacient’. This is the precise biological description for any drug or device that acts to end a pregnancy once it has begun at conception.

You might be interested to know that many major medical dictionaries have definitions of ‘conception’, ‘pregnancy’ and ‘contraception’ that are the same as those listed above.

It is medically dishonest to break from these definitions. And yet, this is precisely what some scientists have recently started to do. They seek to define pregnancy as beginning with implantation, not fertilization. But as I mentioned ealier, implantation occurs 7-8 days after the new human person has come into existence. The pregnancy, and the new human person, are already many days old by the time implantation has occurred.

Therefore, what these scientists are trying to doing is get people to think that abortifacient drugs such as the pill are really just contraceptive drugs. Do you see the clever shift in definitions these scientists are trying to make? Redefine when a pregnancy and new human life begins, and you redefine the key characteristic of the drug – how it works!

Obviously many people object to abortifacient drugs because they can cause a loss of human life. Not so many people object to methods of contraception (condoms, diaphrams etc), because these methods prevent new human life being created. Hence, if scientists succeed in convincing people that human life begins after implantation, eventually most people will have no objection to the pill. They will have been tricked into believing that human life had not begun when the pill exerted its anti-implantation effect.
 
Taken from pfli.org/faq_oc.html

***Q. I have heard some people say the pill has an abortifacient capacity. What does this word mean, and is it really true anyway?

A. Before answering this question it is very important that we all have a correct understanding of the key biological terms related to pregnancy. The following definitions have been accept by major medical texts for decades.

‘Conception’ refers to the moment at which the sperm penetrates and fertilises the ovum to form a viable zygote. It does not refer to the process of implantation of the newly created human embryo, which is a separate event, occurring about 7-8 day’s after conception. A woman is pregnant because conception has occurred, not because implantation has occurred. This distinction is important.

At the precise and unique moment of conception, a woman is ‘pregnant’ with "a new individual “. This is an accurate and informed medical description. It is the same terminology used by Prof. John Dwyer, pre-eminent Australian AIDS expert and researcher, who has described the moment that the sperm enters the ovum as the creation of a “new and unique individual”. Well known medical writer, Professor Derek Llewellyn-Jones, author of Everywoman, has also written that when the male genetic material from the sperm joins with the female genetic material in the ovum, " a new individual is formed”.

To stop conception occurring, that is, to stop sperm and ovum joining, is contraception. Condoms, diaphragms, spermicides, vasectomy and tubal ligation are accurately described as methods of contraception. Obviously any drug or device used after conception has occurred cannot be termed a contraceptive.

The correct term to describe any interference with the pregnancy after conception has occurred is ‘abortifacient’. This is the precise biological description for any drug or device that acts to end a pregnancy once it has begun at conception.

You might be interested to know that many major medical dictionaries have definitions of ‘conception’, ‘pregnancy’ and ‘contraception’ that are the same as those listed above.

It is medically dishonest to break from these definitions. And yet, this is precisely what some scientists have recently started to do. They seek to define pregnancy as beginning with implantation, not fertilization. But as I mentioned ealier, implantation occurs 7-8 days after the new human person has come into existence. The pregnancy, and the new human person, are already many days old by the time implantation has occurred.

Therefore, what these scientists are trying to doing is get people to think that abortifacient drugs such as the pill are really just contraceptive drugs. Do you see the clever shift in definitions these scientists are trying to make? Redefine when a pregnancy and new human life begins, and you redefine the key characteristic of the drug – how it works!

Obviously many people object to abortifacient drugs because they can cause a loss of human life. Not so many people object to methods of contraception (condoms, diaphrams etc), because these methods prevent new human life being created. Hence, if scientists succeed in convincing people that human life begins after implantation, eventually most people will have no objection to the pill. They will have been tricked into believing that human life had not begun when the pill exerted its anti-implantation effect.
It’s interesting to note that in at least one Planned Parenthood clinic I’m aware of, women are told how the Pill works by preventing implantation. They make it clear that if the client has a moral problem with that they should look at other means of preventing pregnancy.
 
PLEASE let’s not derail this thread into another debate about whether the pill is an abortifacient. Stick to the topic brought up in the OP.

I would agree with the general sentiment thus far: the logic of your friend’s argument is specious at best. The sinfulness of an act is not determined by one’s success when attempting it.

Peace,
Dante
 
I agree the question is “The pill is open to life?” Concerning the other issue there is much written, others can start a new thread, or PM me. It is important we all be accurate, just as the OP encountered a person who wishes to re-define “open to life” we need to explain to that person the true meaning of the statement or proper context.
 
Ok here is the short story. I heard from a person that the “pill” is acceptable because it does not violate the openess to life. THe argument was since it is not 100% effective there is still a chance of conception…meaning that a contracepting couple are leaving it up to God because it is still leaving the possibility of life (a small one at that)

By the way I don’t buy the argument and consider the “pill” an intrinsic evil. Not only because it blocks the transmission of life but also because of its occaisional abortifacient properties.
If this person was correct in their argument, then there would be no problem with other forms of artificial contraception either, since there is no contraceptive which is 100% effective. Taking the pill does not “leave it up to God” since the pill is specifically designed to interfere with, or suppress the woman’s hormones which will make conception impossible. Whether the pill turns out to be effective or not is not the whole issue since the primary motive in taking the pill is to eliminate the possibility of conception. Of course, even from a purely medical point of view it is getting more and more difficult to justify the use of the pill as it has been linked to several serious illnesses such as cervical cancer, depression and a higher risk of suffering a stroke.
 
Ok here is the short story. I heard from a person that the “pill” is acceptable because it does not violate the openess to life. THe argument was since it is not 100% effective there is still a chance of conception…meaning that a contracepting couple are leaving it up to God because it is still leaving the possibility of life (a small one at that)
Using your friend’s logic, then sterilization would be acceptable as God can overcome any of man’s attempts to render himself infertile if it is God’s will.

I also like to approach this from an existential way. How many uncontracepted unions had to take place in order for you to exist? Throughout history, thousands of couples, your ancestors, had to procreate in order for you to be here. If just one of them had used contraception, you and how many thousands of others never come into being. So by using contraception, you in a sense play God by artificially determining who comes into existence in the future.

Finally, ask your friend if he has the gumption to look into his wife’s eyes and say, “Honey, I love everything about you…except your fertility.”
 
Ok! Lets stick to the original question then. There are two possibilities.

If the pill is taken for medical reasons, i.e. to regulate the cycle, with no intention on behalf of the woman to prevent pregnancy then taking the pill does not violate the womans openess to life since the contraceptive action is an unfortunate side effect.

If the pill is taken with the sole intention of preventing pregnancy, then taking it indeed violates the woman’s openess to life.

If the pill is taken with the intention of preventing pregnancy and the woman realises perfectly that there is still a slight chance of pregnancy but carries on taking it saying that she remains open to life, then it most definitely violates the openess to life. This, however, is probably a worse case scenario than the previous one since this mindset is only preoccupied with trying to justify a moral evil.

I cannot comprehend one who would take the pill for a non-medical reason and maintain the argument that they are still open to a less probable chance of life. This is a pure non-sense.
 
How can the pill be “open to life” if by taking it your directly fighting ***against ***God’s Will?
 
Ok! Lets stick to the original question then. There are two possibilities.

If the pill is taken for medical reasons, i.e. to regulate the cycle, with no intention on behalf of the woman to prevent pregnancy then taking the pill does not violate the womans openess to life since the contraceptive action is an unfortunate side effect.

If the pill is taken with the sole intention of preventing pregnancy, then taking it indeed violates the woman’s openess to life.

If the pill is taken with the intention of preventing pregnancy and the woman realises perfectly that there is still a slight chance of pregnancy but carries on taking it saying that she remains open to life, then it most definitely violates the openess to life. This, however, is probably a worse case scenario than the previous one since this mindset is only preoccupied with trying to justify a moral evil.

I cannot comprehend one who would take the pill for a non-medical reason and maintain the argument that they are still open to a less probable chance of life. This is a pure non-sense.
I think you meant the therapeutic treatment has a different intent, it is ***not ***open to life but is not intended to block the natural design.
 
If the pill is taken with the intention of preventing pregnancy and the woman realises perfectly that there is still a slight chance of pregnancy but carries on taking it saying that she remains open to life, then it most definitely violates the openess to life. This, however, is probably a worse case scenario than the previous one since this mindset is only preoccupied with trying to justify a moral evil.
I think more likely it means that the woman doesn’t understand what the phrase “open to life” is intended to convey. I used to figure that most of what it meant to convey was that you would love and care for any child that did come about, however that happened. Not open would be the person who would abort the child rather than accept it, for example. On this understanding of the phrase, a person who uses a condom to reduce fertility could either be open to life or not, depending on what they plan on doing if they get pregnant. I think some people interpret it this way because they don’t grasp that there is any difference between the pill/condom/etc. and periodic abstinence, other than that someone claims they are different, and other than they have different effectiveness rates, and cost different amounts of money, etc. Such a person might easily pick periodic abstinence as their preferred method if they believed it was cheaper, more effective, and didn’t harm their body.
 
Just because you might fail when you attempt to controvert God’s will doesn’t mean you’re not attempting to controvert God’s will.
 
If that arguement for the pill would hold, it would also apply to condoms. They sometimes fail and certainly are not 100 % effective.
 
Just because you might fail when you attempt to controvert God’s will doesn’t mean you’re not attempting to controvert God’s will.
The person who decides to procure and use the pill as birth control has already succeeded in behaving contrary to what God asks of them (to the moral law). In silly words, failure is no longer an option. :)😦 The crux does not lie in whether they have a child or not, but in the choice they have already made and in further choices on their part in that vein.

It is sad that when thinking about birth control the only failure some people are aware of is their own failure to use the birth control or the failure of the method to prevent conception. (I don’t mean you, BlaineTog! Your words just made me think about how others can view “failure”.)
 
Taken from pfli.org/faq_oc.html

***Q. I have heard some people say the pill has an abortifacient capacity. What does this word mean, and is it really true anyway?

A. Before answering this question it is very important that we all have a correct understanding of the key biological terms related to pregnancy. The following definitions have been accept by major medical texts for decades.

‘Conception’ refers to the moment at which the sperm penetrates and fertilises the ovum to form a viable zygote. It does not refer to the process of implantation of the newly created human embryo, which is a separate event, occurring about 7-8 day’s after conception. A woman is pregnant because conception has occurred, not because implantation has occurred. This distinction is important.
That’s not the commonly accepted meaning of ‘conception’. Conception requires three factors, the egg, the sperm and implantation in the womb. It is a perfect mirror of the trinity, and the zygote is a mirror of the incarnation.

What the paragraph quoted above describes is ‘fertilization’.

This is a point about medical terminology, so if you disagree, please provide quotes from medical (not theological) sources.
 
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