New to the faith and I have some questions?

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I am 21 years old in the RCIA program. None of my family is catholic. My mother started taking us to presbyterian church when I was around 11 or 12. I was never baptized and never became too active in church life. I doubted for a long a time but always had a basic belief in God and Jesus as our Savior.

When I went to boot camp there was another soldier that was a strong catholic. I had never known anything about catholicism. I started going to the catholic masses that they held at boot camp and the father there was very charismatic and he always had the right words that I needed to hear. I knew then that catholicism was what I had been looking for.

After I got out of boot camp and back home (i’m in the national guard, not active duty) I met my girlfriend and she is from a very Irish catholic family. It all made perfect sense. I finally saw some of what God was laying out for me and planning in my life. We plan on getting married but we are waiting for school and military obligations before the time is right.

SO!

Here are my real questions:

Is it okay to invite my mother to the Easter Vigil mass where I will be making all of my sacraments? She is not catholic and she has fallen away from her presbyterian faith. We have a kind of rocky relationship but I think that it would be appropriate to invite her. She had always encouraged having faith in God when we were young. She doesn’t exactly understand my decision to become catholic but she does support it.

I also wonder what crosses the line as sinful when it comes to intimacy in relationships. My girlfriend and I are waiting for marriage until we have sex, but we do get sexually intimate, we just don’t go “all the way”. What crosses the line and what is appropriate? We love each other and plan on marrying in the Catholic church and we are both dedicated to our faith. I am just a little confused and not sure if we are crossing the line.
 
Welcome my friend!
Is it okay to invite my mother to the Easter Vigil mass where I will be making all of my sacraments?
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Absolutely!
I also wonder what crosses the line as sinful when it comes to intimacy in relationships. My girlfriend and I are waiting for marriage until we have sex, but we do get sexually intimate, we just don’t go “all the way”. What crosses the line and what is appropriate? We love each other and plan on marrying in the Catholic church and we are both dedicated to our faith. I am just a little confused and not sure if we are crossing the line.
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Any form of sexual intimacy outside of the Sacrament of Marriage is gravely sinful. Now don’t worry, you are new to the faith and did not know. However I would speak to a priest about this so you will be able to understand the Catholic view of sexuality.
 
Of course invite your mother! If she has fallen away from her previous church, it could be a wonderful chance for you to bring God back into her life.

I’ve looked as much as I can about sexual intimacy, due to not wanting to repeat mistakes I previously made, and the simplest standard is to refrain from anything other than kissing (and light kissing at that). Any more than that strays into the sexually immoral and could tempt you to go further. As has already been suggested, speak to a priest so you can get a fuller understanding of Catholic sexual teachings - I have always accredited my own errors to a lack of understanding of the Church’s teaching.
 
Inviting your mother to attend is not only permissible, but should be encouraged. Her desire to introduce you to the belief in God, shows her support. Regardless of denomination, you both believe in the holy trinity and christianity. The question of pre-marital sex is a common one. Technically, sex between a man and a woman, should be in the realm of holy matrimony. Being married to each other is a union between a man and a woman and the vows they exchange between them. To be legally recognized, a priest or a minister or a municipal official has to witness it. If you and your fiancee have professed your love and committment to each other,excluding all others, then you are already married by desire, you just haven’t made it official yet. Take my opinion for what its worth.
 
“Married by desire” - never heard of that before, can you explain that to me?
 
OscarL2154 said:
Inviting your mother to attend is not only permissible, but should be encouraged. Her desire to introduce you to the belief in God, shows her support. Regardless of denomination, you both believe in the holy trinity and christianity. The question of pre-marital sex is a common one. Technically, sex between a man and a woman, should be in the realm of holy matrimony. Being married to each other is a union between a man and a woman and the vows they exchange between them. To be legally recognized, a priest or a minister or a municipal official has to witness it. If you and your fiancee have professed your love and committment to each other,excluding all others, then you are already married by desire, you just haven’t made it official yet. Take my opinion for what its worth.
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“Married by desire” sounds like one of those lines a guy uses to try an get his girlfriend to go to bed with him. There is no such teaching in the Catholic Church. You are not married until you have exchanged vows…
 
estesbob said:
“Married by desire” sounds like one of those lines a guy uses to try an get his girlfriend to go to bed with him. There is no such teaching in the Catholic Church. You are not married until you have exchanged vows…
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If you can be baptised by desire, then why not married?

I’m just curious, I didn’t think such a thing was doctrine which is why I asked about it in the first place.
 
estesbob said:
“Married by desire” sounds like one of those lines a guy uses to try an get his girlfriend to go to bed with him. There is no such teaching in the Catholic Church. You are not married until you have exchanged vows…
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Is your reference to “exchanging vows” dependant on having a priest or minister or municipal official witnessing that exchange of vows? If it is then you are correct that there is no legal marriage. If being married is satisfied by the mutual exchange of vocalized vows of committment and love between a man and a woman, then could there possibly exist a “marriage by mutual desire”? The intent and desire has to be there on behalf of both of the couples’ part. Just one individuals desire does not a marriage make. My opinion for what its worth.
 
OscarL2154 said:
Is your reference to “exchanging vows” dependant on having a priest or minister or municipal official witnessing that exchange of vows? If it is then you are correct that there is no legal marriage. If being married is satisfied by the mutual exchange of vocalized vows of committment and love between a man and a woman, then could there possibly exist a “marriage by mutual desire”? The intent and desire has to be there on behalf of both of the couples’ part. Just one individuals desire does not a marriage make. My opinion for what its worth.
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I believe we are talking about a sacramental marriage in the Catholic Church. In many states you can become legally married merely by spending the life night together and holding yourself out to the man and wife
 
LemonAndLime said:
If you can be baptised by desire, then why not married?

I’m just curious, I didn’t think such a thing was doctrine which is why I asked about it in the first place.
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“Marriage by desire” means you can have all the advantages of being married without being married. It is not Catholic teaching. There is no reason not to wait until marriage. In fact, I was engaged to be married when I was just out of high school. I was certain I would marry that person and stay married forever. He wanted that, too. But we never made it to the altar.

“Baptism by desire” is not a replacement for baptism, however. While sex can wait for marriage, if you are in the process of becoming Catholic and have never been baptized, but you are in RCIA, and you die before baptism, that would be an example of baptism by desire. (Note: it’s not the only example.) Baptism by desire describes God’s great love and mercy, that He wouldn’t just “play by the rules”, that He wouldn’t say, “Nope, you ween’t baptized, and though you desired to live for Me, you still can’t live with Me.”

In other words, baptism by desire is about God’s grace. Marriage by desire is about people’s desire to live as if they are married even if they aren’t yet.
 
First of all, welcome to the Church! It’s great to have you. I’ll remember to keep you in my prayers as you begin this great new chapter in your life.

Now as for what is crossing the line, some sort of sexual intimacy is in fact a mortal sin. Don’t do it. If you want a general guideline for what is acceptable, don’t do anything you wouldn’t be willing to do in public. It’s a good rule of thumb for these sorts of matters.
 
Incomplete said:
“Marriage by desire” means you can have all the advantages of being married without being married. It is not Catholic teaching. There is no reason not to wait until marriage. In fact, I was engaged to be married when I was just out of high school. I was certain I would marry that person and stay married forever. He wanted that, too. But we never made it to the altar.

“Baptism by desire” is not a replacement for baptism, however. While sex can wait for marriage, if you are in the process of becoming Catholic and have never been baptized, but you are in RCIA, and you die before baptism, that would be an example of baptism by desire. (Note: it’s not the only example.) Baptism by desire describes God’s great love and mercy, that He wouldn’t just “play by the rules”, that He wouldn’t say, “Nope, you ween’t baptized, and though you desired to live for Me, you still can’t live with Me.”

In other words, baptism by desire is about God’s grace. Marriage by desire is about people’s desire to live as if they are married even if they aren’t yet.
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Thank you for explaining that to me 🙂

But surely in medieval Catholic Europe, marriage ceremonys didn’t even exist (so I heard). Marriage would be by desire, an agreement would be made and then you would be married once they came to agreement. This was taken really seriously. In Britain, there was a case when a young local man raped a woman. She then went to the authorities, who agreed with her that this meant he was her legal husband, and was duty-bound to stay with her. She succeeded. I’m sure Britain was Catholic at the time this practice was taking place, it certainly wasn’t in the pre-Christian era of British history.

Edit: I don’t mean to question the doctrine, but I’m asking whether how marriage worked out has changed historically.
 
LemonAndLime said:
Thank you for explaining that to me 🙂

But surely in medieval Catholic Europe, marriage ceremonys didn’t even exist (so I heard). Marriage would be by desire, an agreement would be made and then you would be married once they came to agreement. This was taken really seriously. In Britain, there was a case when a young local man raped a woman. She then went to the authorities, who agreed with her that this meant he was her legal husband, and was duty-bound to stay with her. She succeeded. I’m sure Britain was Catholic at the time this practice was taking place, it certainly wasn’t in the pre-Christian era of British history.

Edit: I don’t mean to question the doctrine, but I’m asking whether how marriage worked out has changed historically.
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I don’t know how it worked historically either, but you mentioned that you would be married once you came to an agreement. That may have been the equivalent of a marriage ceremony. Either way, there wasn’t just a “desire”, there was some sort of boundary which said they were married.

Our boundary is the ceremony.

As far as a rapist being made to be legally married, I have no idea how that worked. Do we know for certain that is a true story and not a legend? If it is true, again there was something said by authorities that the rape bound them.

If we were a society where having intercourse was that boundary, then there would be no such thing as sex before marriage. It would be the equivalent of the marriage ceremony.
 
Incomplete said:
I don’t know how it worked historically either, but you mentioned that you would be married once you came to an agreement. That may have been the equivalent of a marriage ceremony. Either way, there wasn’t just a “desire”, there was some sort of boundary which said they were married.

Our boundary is the ceremony.

As far as a rapist being made to be legally married, I have no idea how that worked. Do we know for certain that is a true story and not a legend? If it is true, again there was something said by authorities that the rape bound them.

If we were a society where having intercourse was that boundary, then there would be no such thing as sex before marriage. It would be the equivalent of the marriage ceremony.
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I don’t think that case worked like that. I got the impression that the reason the woman chased the man for marriage was that she would find it very difficult to find anyone else who would take her, and that this was a man she knew. She took it to the local magistrate and he ruled in her favour - I assume that the fact he had sex with her (something which is restrained to within marriage) was advantageous in her case for a mutually agreed marriage. I think the reason this record existed was because it was in the magistrate record book, kept in an ancient Church - it was in a documentary about medieval Britain, it was a long time ago that I watched it. The guy was simply going through the records of disputes over land, wages etc and this came up.
 
Incomplete said:
“Marriage by desire” means you can have all the advantages of being married without being married. It is not Catholic teaching. There is no reason not to wait until marriage. In fact, I was engaged to be married when I was just out of high school. I was certain I would marry that person and stay married forever. He wanted that, too. But we never made it to the altar.
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I had that same experience more than once. I was firmly convinced at the time that I was going to marry my childhood sweetheart. After I lost touch with him I started dating, and was sure I was going to marry three of the boys I dated - as it turned out, I only married the last one.
“Baptism by desire” is not a replacement for baptism, however. While sex can wait for marriage, if you are in the process of becoming Catholic and have never been baptized, but you are in RCIA, and you die before baptism, that would be an example of baptism by desire. (Note: it’s not the only example.) Baptism by desire describes God’s great love and mercy, that He wouldn’t just “play by the rules”, that He wouldn’t say, “Nope, you ween’t baptized, and though you desired to live for Me, you still can’t live with Me.”
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In other words, baptism by desire is about God’s grace.
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Exactly - and it only “takes effect” after death, when the possibility of actual baptism has passed by - no living person can claim to have “baptism by desire” - they can only be waiting for baptism.
Marriage by desire is about people’s desire to live as if they are married even if they aren’t yet.
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And since marriage ends at death, there would be no “marriage by desire” after death, either.
 
LemonAndLime said:
But surely in medieval Catholic Europe, marriage ceremonys didn’t even exist (so I heard). Marriage would be by desire, an agreement would be made and then you would be married once they came to agreement. This was taken really seriously. In Britain, there was a case when a young local man raped a woman. She then went to the authorities, who agreed with her that this meant he was her legal husband, and was duty-bound to stay with her. She succeeded. I’m sure Britain was Catholic at the time this practice was taking place, it certainly wasn’t in the pre-Christian era of British history.
QUOTE]

If there was a wedding feast at Cana that out Lord attended then I’m sure there were rubrics for marriage in the medieval times :). Marriages were made a sacrament by Christs presence and this is what the Priest (Alter Christi) does at weddings; they are there to represent Christ and confer the sacrament of marriage.
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zakreilly said:
Is it okay to invite my mother to the Easter Vigil mass where I will be making all of my sacraments? She is not catholic and she has fallen away from her presbyterian faith. We have a kind of rocky relationship but I think that it would be appropriate to invite her. She had always encouraged having faith in God when we were young. She doesn’t exactly understand my decision to become catholic but she does support it.
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Definitely. You will want to give her a bit of a “heads up” on what to expect at Mass, and you’ll want to make sure she understands that she’s not to come forward for Holy Communion. (Don’t try to explain it in detail, but just simply mention to her that it is not our custom to include non-Catholics in Holy Communion, as we see it as part of the Initiation Rite of the Church.)
I also wonder what crosses the line as sinful when it comes to intimacy in relationships. My girlfriend and I are waiting for marriage until we have sex, but we do get sexually intimate, we just don’t go “all the way”. What crosses the line and what is appropriate? We love each other and plan on marrying in the Catholic church and we are both dedicated to our faith. I am just a little confused and not sure if we are crossing the line.
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Anything that a modern person would define as “sexually intimate” is most likely to be “too far”.

Keep at least six inches between her lower torso and yours, remain fully clothed, and keep your hands on the outside of each other’s clothes. Hugging and kissing is good - groping and anything beyond groping is “too far.”

The best way to avoid temptation is to avoid being alone together. Don’t take long car rides together by yourselves, and don’t be alone together in either of your homes. If you have to drive somewhere far away, take another couple with you, and when you’re visiting each other’s homes, do it when there are other family members around - don’t do it when the house is empty.
 
zakreilly said:
I am 21 years old in the RCIA program. None of my family is catholic. My mother started taking us to presbyterian church when I was around 11 or 12. I was never baptized and never became too active in church life. I doubted for a long a time but always had a basic belief in God and Jesus as our Savior.

When I went to boot camp there was another soldier that was a strong catholic. I had never known anything about catholicism. I started going to the catholic masses that they held at boot camp and the father there was very charismatic and he always had the right words that I needed to hear. I knew then that catholicism was what I had been looking for.

After I got out of boot camp and back home (i’m in the national guard, not active duty) I met my girlfriend and she is from a very Irish catholic family. It all made perfect sense. I finally saw some of what God was laying out for me and planning in my life. We plan on getting married but we are waiting for school and military obligations before the time is right.

SO!

Here are my real questions:

Is it okay to invite my mother to the Easter Vigil mass where I will be making all of my sacraments? She is not catholic and she has fallen away from her presbyterian faith. We have a kind of rocky relationship but I think that it would be appropriate to invite her. She had always encouraged having faith in God when we were young. She doesn’t exactly understand my decision to become catholic but she does support it.

I also wonder what crosses the line as sinful when it comes to intimacy in relationships. My girlfriend and I are waiting for marriage until we have sex, but we do get sexually intimate, we just don’t go “all the way”. What crosses the line and what is appropriate? We love each other and plan on marrying in the Catholic church and we are both dedicated to our faith. I am just a little confused and not sure if we are crossing the line.
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Definitely OK to invite your mother. Just let her know ahead of time that she won’t be allowed to partake of the Blessed Sacrament of Eucharist, but she can go up for a blessing if she wants, or it is perfectly alright for her to stay seated in the pew while others go up.

Another poster already answered very well regarding your second question, so I won’t be redunant. 🙂

blessings, and welcome “home”.

CEM
 
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