new to the latin mass

[Vince85]

Im somewhat new to the latin mass and have been attending it regularly as i prefer it over the new mass and i love the latin chants that they do for high mass. Just a beautiful celebration of christ, I do get lost trying to figure out what page im supposed to be on but il guess that will come in time.They hand out those small books to follow along with but then they give you a sheet of paper when the liturgy changes and i you have to go back and fourth. I see people who bring there own books to the mass and they have all the reading in them i believe. Can someone tell me the name of them and where i might purchase them for the latin mass. Has anyone ever tried to learn the mass in latin ?

 

[MarkThompson]

The book is called a missal. Here is one popular example. Yes, they will contain all the readings, Psalm verses, etc., but unfortunately you still would have to do a lot of flipping back and forth if you wanted to follow everything. (Missals generally come with five or six ribbon bookmarks so you can keep track of all the different parts of the book you may be using.)

And yes, some people do in fact learn the Latin Mass! To really be able to read it, it would take a pretty substantial investment of time in learning Latin, though. That’s why missals have an English translation side-by-side, since most people cannot read the Latin except for texts that do not change and they basically memorize.

 

[Irish_Polock]

Im somewhat new to the latin mass and have been attending it regularly as i prefer it over the new mass and i love the latin chants that they do for high mass. Just a beautiful celebration of christ, I do get lost trying to figure out what page im supposed to be on but il guess that will come in time.They hand out those small books to follow along with but then they give you a sheet of paper when the liturgy changes and i you have to go back and fourth. I see people who bring there own books to the mass and they have all the reading in them i believe. Can someone tell me the name of them and where i might purchase them for the latin mass. Has anyone ever tried to learn the mass in latin ?

The 1962 Roman missal is the one I have used for some time now

baroniuspress.com/book.php?wid=56&bid=4

 

[ProVobis]

Has anyone ever tried to learn the mass in latin ?

I know of at least one individual who has memorized the entire EF (without the propers), in Latin. So it’s possible but just knowing the Gloria and the Creed is commendable.

 

[Manofvirtue]

There is only one thing that you should remember.

……………………,-~’’’¯¯¯’’~-,
…………………,-‘’ ; ; ;,—,_ ; ;’’-,………………………………,—,
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……………….| ; ; ;,’ , , , ,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ¯’’~’-, ,-~’’ , , ‘, ;’,
……………….’, ; ; ‘-, ,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-, , , , , ,’ ; |
…………………’, ; ;,’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’-, , ,-‘ ;,-‘
………………….,’-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-‘ ;,-‘
…………………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,’
………………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’¯: : ’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; _ ; ; ; ; ;’,
………………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;| : : : : : ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘’¯: ¯’’-, ; ; ;’,
…………….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,: : ,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | : : : : : ; ; ; |
……………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ¯¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’-, : :,-‘ ; ; ; ;|
……………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-~’’ , , , , ,--, , , , _ ; ; ;¯¯ ; ; ; ; ;|
……………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’ , , , , , , ,( : : : : ) , , , ,’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|
……….,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’, , , , , , , , ,’~—~’’ , , , , , ,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
…….,-‘’ ; , ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘’~-,–~~’’’¯’’’~-, , ,,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
….,-‘’-~’’,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | ; ; | . . . . . . ,’; ,’’¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; , ; ‘-,
……….,’ ; ;,-, ; ;, ; ; ;, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ;’, . . . . .,’ ;,’ ; ; ; ;, ; ; ;,’-, ; ;,’ ‘’~–‘’’
………,’-~’ ,-‘-~’’ ‘, ,-‘ ‘, ,- ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ; ‘~-,-‘’ ; ,’ ; ; ; ; ‘, ;,-‘’ ; ‘, ,-‘,
……….,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ‘’ ; ; ;’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘’-,_ ; ; ; ,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ;’-‘’ ; ; ; ‘’ ; ;’-,
………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;¯¯’’¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; , ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’-,
……,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; , ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,
……,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|…’-, ; ; ; , ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; | ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…….’’’,-~’ ; ; ; ; ; ,’
…,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’~-,–’’’’’’~-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’……,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-
…| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’….’, ; ; ; ; _,-‘’
….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…….’’’’¯
……’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
………’’~-, ; ; ; ; ,-~’’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…………| ; ; ;¯¯’’’’¯ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…………’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘
…………| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;|
…………’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ~-,__ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
………….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘….’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
…………,’ ‘- ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’……….’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘,
……….,’ ; ;’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘…………….’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’,
………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘’…………………’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |
………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,-‘………………………’’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; |
………| ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’…………………………,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;,’
………| ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’…………………………,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,’’
………| ; ; ; ; ; ;,’……………………….,-‘ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
………’,_ , ; , ;,’……………………….,’ ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ,-‘
………’,’,¯,’,’’|……………………….| ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘–,
………….¯…’’…………………………’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’~,
……………………………………………’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;’’~-,
…………………………………………………’’-, ; ; ; ; ; ,_ ; ;’-,’’-,
……………………………………………………’, ; ; ; ; ; ; ‘-,__,\–\.
……………………………………………………’-, ; ; ;,-~’’’ \ , ,|, |
………………………………………………………’’~-‘’_ , , ,’,_/–‘

God bless.

 

[Pregustator]

Im somewhat new to the latin mass and have been attending it regularly as i prefer it over the new mass and i love the latin chants that they do for high mass. Just a beautiful celebration of christ, I do get lost trying to figure out what page im supposed to be on but il guess that will come in time.They hand out those small books to follow along with but then they give you a sheet of paper when the liturgy changes and i you have to go back and fourth. I see people who bring there own books to the mass and they have all the reading in them i believe. Can someone tell me the name of them and where i might purchase them for the latin mass. Has anyone ever tried to learn the mass in latin ?

Hi, Vince.

The book you see people holding is a personal Missal (the book containing the texts of the Mass). It’s a smaller, personalized version of the Missal that the priest-celebrant, himself, uses at the altar.

While the celebrant’s Missal at the altar is comprehensive, that is not always the case with personal, hand-held Missals. Some are, in fact, comprehensive, containing the texts of the Mass for Sundays, weekdays, and all feast days. Some contain only the Sunday Masses for the year, some contain only the weekday Masses. There are Missals specifically for children, too, that are rather basic.

A few publishers sell personal Latin Missals, new, for those attending the Tridentine Mass. Baronius Press and the Angelus Press are amongst them. The current Missal is also able to be celebrated in Latin, and so there are Latin-English Missals for the “new” Mass, too, so just be sure you acquire the right Missal for the Mass you are attending. The 1962 edition of the Roman Missal is most commonly used at celebrations of the Tridentine Rite. Older editions than the 1962 edition, however, will suit your purposes just fine.

There are alternatives to buying a new Missal (new ones can be expensive): older relatives might have one or two kicking around that they’d be only too delighted to have you make use of again. I have never been to an old/used bookstore that didn’t have one or two at any given time. Of course, there’s Ebay.

 

[RosaryCrusader]

Here’s a few tips to help you not get lost in the second half of the Mass; the Mass of the faithful.

There are a couple of instances where the Priest will say the first few words of a prayer out loud. These will cue you in to where the Priest is. I would highlight them in your missal and when you hear them you’ll know where you should be at. They are:

ORATE FRATRES
NOBIS QUOQUE PECCATORIBUS

Of course there is also the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) , the Pater Noster (Our Father) , Domine Nonsumdignus (Lord I am not worthy) etc. which are bigger and more obvious cues but the little ones above helped me tremendously at first.

With time you’ll be a pro at following along and won’t be scared to sit in the first row, where you can’t see what others are doing

 

[Pregustator]

With time you’ll be a pro at following along and won’t be scared to sit in the first row, where you can’t see what others are doing

It really doesn’t take long to get the hang of the Missal, as RosaryCrusader says. By the time you do, you may be inclined to forgo it, however. As I learned from week to week how to use the Missal, my eyes were always pointed down, reading text as I flipped ribbons back and forth.

One day I looked up and it occurred to me that I was completely missing out on all that magnificent action in the chancel–the splendid ceremony–the very reason I started going to the Latin Mass to begin with. “I’m not hear to read a book,” I reminded myself. And no sooner had I mastered the Missal than I ditched it. I knew all the Latin responses by heart and the readings were repeated in English from the lectern. So I started leaving the book home.

From that moment on I ceased to merely “hear Mass” and began to fully, attentively, and joyfully participate in the liturgy.

 

[m134e5]

I knew all the Latin responses by heart and the readings were repeated in English from the lectern. So I started leaving the book home.

From that moment on I ceased to merely “hear Mass” and began to fully, attentively, and joyfully participate in the liturgy.

The Missal says nothing about the congregation saying anything (the servers say the responses), other than when to stand, sit, and kneel. I don’t understand why so many traditional Latin Masses celebrated today are dialogue Masses. From what I understand, that was an innovation from the early 60’s. If I go to a traditional Latin Mass, and I hear it enough times, I’ll get the idea- I don’t need to know exactly what to say, because I don’t say anything (and yet I’m still fully, attentively, and joyfully participating in the liturgy).

 

[MarkThompson]

The Missal says nothing about the congregation saying anything (the servers say the responses), other than when to stand, sit, and kneel. I don’t understand why so many traditional Latin Masses celebrated today are dialogue Masses. From what I understand, that was an innovation from the early 60’s. If I go to a traditional Latin Mass, and I hear it enough times, I’ll get the idea- I don’t need to know exactly what to say, because I don’t say anything (and yet I’m still fully, attentively, and joyfully participating in the liturgy).

Actually, it’s from 30 to 40 years earlier than that.

Out of curiosity, when the priest says “Dominus vobiscum,” do you respond “Et cum spiritu tuo,” or do you joyfully clam up and stand there mute like God intended?

 

[scimitar60]

Actually, it’s from 30 to 40 years earlier than that.

Out of curiosity, when the priest says “Dominus vobiscum,” do you respond “Et cum spiritu tuo,” or do you joyfully clam up and stand there mute like God intended?

Ahahahahahahaha, this made me laugh so hard, just imagining it !

 

[CradleCath]

Hi, Vince.

The book you see people holding is a personal Missal (the book containing the texts of the Mass). It’s a smaller, personalized version of the Missal that the priest-celebrant, himself, uses at the altar.

 

[CradleCath]

QUOTE=Pregustator;7236505]It really doesn’t take long to get the hang of the Missal, as RosaryCrusader says. By the time you do, you may be inclined to forgo it, however. As I learned from week to week how to use the Missal, my eyes were always pointed down, reading text as I flipped ribbons back and forth.

One day I looked up and it occurred to me that I was completely missing out on all that magnificent action in the chancel–the splendid ceremony–the very reason I started going to the Latin Mass to begin with. “I’m not hear to read a book,” I reminded myself. And no sooner had I mastered the Missal than I ditched it. I knew all the Latin responses by heart and the readings were repeated in English from the lectern. So I started leaving the book home. From that moment on I ceased to merely “hear Mass” and began to fully, attentively, and joyfully participate in the liturgy.

I long to get, once again, where you are. I attended the TLM. for 28 yrs. before Vatican II. I could do just as you’re describing here. Two years of Latin in high school was an added bonus & still is. However, I feel almost guilty if I don’t follow the prayers the priest is saying. They are so beautiful & such a treasure after having lost them for 40+ years. Surely there is a happy medium.

 

[ProVobis]

One can be just as fully and joyfully participant in any Mass, whether it’s Latin (EF or OF) or Korean or Polish or 2010 English. If one is tempted to leave his text material at home, that’s probably an indication he or she doesn’t need to learn anything more, including scripture and various translations. I wish I were at that point.

 

[malphono]

m134e5;7240901:

The Missal says nothing about the congregation saying anything (the servers say the responses), other than when to stand, sit, and kneel. I don’t understand why so many traditional Latin Masses celebrated today are dialogue Masses. From what I understand, that was an innovation from the early 60’s. If I go to a traditional Latin Mass, and I hear it enough times, I’ll get the idea- I don’t need to know exactly what to say, because I don’t say anything (and yet I’m still fully, attentively, and joyfully participating in the liturgy).

Actually, it’s from 30 to 40 years earlier than that. Out of curiosity, when the priest says “Dominus vobiscum,” do you respond “Et cum spiritu tuo,” or do you joyfully clam up and stand there mute like God intended?

Yes, the missa recitata (aka “Dialogue Mass”) certainly predates the “early '60s” by a few decades. It was promoted by PP Benedict XV and again by Pius XII, and while it was fairly well received in Europe, it never quite caught-on in the US. It still hasn’t, although good number of people (yours truly included) habitually make the responses sotto voce at all Low Masses.

To me, it’s a shame. What the missa recitata really attempts to do is fill-in some of the gap between Sung Mass and Low Mass. FWIW, I don’t see it as so much a matter of “active participation” in the post-conciliar sense as one of involvement, and that in much the same way as in a Sung Mass. As in Sung Mass, there are no “liturgy police” forcing anyone to say or sing the responses, but personally I find it edifying to hear those Latin responses coming from the pews.

Just my :twocents:

 

[ProVobis]

As in Sung Mass, there are no “liturgy police” forcing anyone to say or sing the responses, but personally I find it edifying to hear those Latin responses coming from the pews.

I’ve been now attending the EF (not exclusively) for over 13 years now (not counting pre-1970) and I have yet to hear from the celebrating priest that Latin responses were required, allowed, prohibited, or anything of that nature. There were a lot of sermons informing what was done by the priest, but many seem to just think responses are for the servers and choir only.

 

[CradleCath]

Actually, it’s from 30 to 40 years earlier than that.

Out of curiosity, when the priest says “Dominus vobiscum,” do you respond “Et cum spiritu tuo,” or do you joyfully clam up and stand there mute like God intended?

I’ve found that often, when the mouth opens the brain doesn’t follow suit. That can be verified by observing the posts made by Novus Ordo people when speaking of the Latin Mass & the blank stares of many, as they say “& also with you” at their Masses. Most have no idea that the original reply to Dominus vobiscum Et cum Spiritu tuo (And with your Spirit) is a greeting **which can only be made by a Christian assembly **TO AN ORDAINED MAN **since the reference is to the spirit of holy ordination which is central in his celebrating the holy Eucharist/Mass aright in Christ’s name. **

In the Apostolic Tradition which points to usage circa AD 200 it is “Et cum spiritu tuo.” The Fathers certainly understood this sentence to be a reference to the presence of the gift of the Holy Spirit in terms of the gift of ordination in the presbyter or bishop.

Of course, that had to be “modified” at Vatican II in order to complete the utter blending of the ordained priesthood & the laity.

 

[Mark1970]

Yes, the missa recitata (aka “Dialogue Mass”) certainly predates the “early '60s” by a few decades. It was promoted by PP Benedict XV and again by Pius XII, and while it was fairly well received in Europe, it never quite caught-on in the US. It still hasn’t, although good number of people (yours truly included) habitually make the responses sotto voce at all Low Masses.

To me, it’s a shame. What the missa recitata really attempts to do is fill-in some of the gap between Sung Mass and Low Mass. FWIW, I don’t see it as so much a matter of “active participation” in the post-conciliar sense as one of involvement, and that in much the same way as in a Sung Mass. As in Sung Mass, there are no “liturgy police” forcing anyone to say or sing the responses, but personally I find it edifying to hear those Latin responses coming from the pews.

Just my :twocents:

I’ve been told (I’m not old enough to remember!) that it never really caught on in England, either. One of my friends from the TLM I attend was convinced that congregational responding was a post-Vatican II phenomena, and was dumbfounded when he was shown a missal from the 1950’s referring to Dialogue Mass.

I don’t know why Dialogue Mass wasn’t popular. All I was told, when I asked about it, was that it’s very difficult to get a congregation to make the responses in the way this person thought they should be made. Also, when somebody tried to introduce Dialogue Masses in the 1980’s, they were apparently taken to one side and told that people didn’t want them!

 

[MarkThompson]

I’ve been told (I’m not old enough to remember!) that it never really caught on in England, either. One of my friends from the TLM I attend was convinced that congregational responding was a post-Vatican II phenomena, and was dumbfounded when he was shown a missal from the 1950’s referring to Dialogue Mass.

I don’t know why Dialogue Mass wasn’t popular. All I was told, when I asked about it, was that it’s very difficult to get a congregation to make the responses in the way this person thought they should be made. Also, when somebody tried to introduce Dialogue Masses in the 1980’s, they were apparently taken to one side and told that people didn’t want them!

It is strange, isn’t it? I can understand the awkwardness of having a churchfull of people trying to makes all the responses at the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar, that sort of thing, but something’s just a little screwy when you see, as I have, someone come over and tap a person on the shoulder to make him stop singing along, in a low voice, with the Credo. Egad, joining in the profession of one’s own creed?! Just wear a clown suit and get it over with!

 

[malphono]

It is strange, isn’t it? I can understand the awkwardness of having a churchfull of people trying to makes all the responses at the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar, that sort of thing, but something’s just a little screwy when you see, as I have, someone come over and tap a person on the shoulder to make him stop singing along, in a low voice, with the Credo. Egad, joining in the profession of one’s own creed?! Just wear a clown suit and get it over with!

Even the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar are simple enough the second or third time.

If it’s Credo I or III, I don’t do it in a low voice … but whatever, yes, it is kind of screwy. Let’s just say if one of the rads tried the shoulder-tap thing on me, I would calmly ignore it and continue singing. What would likely happen after Mass, however, is another matter entirely which I shan’t go into now.