New translation and use of singular/plural verbs

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One thing I noticed with the new translation and that I never got around to discussing is the use of singular and plural verbs. I noticed that at the end of the opening prayer at Mass that the words say, “who live and reign forever and ever…”, and those prayers are speaking of God of course. Now, since the words are speaking of one person, shouldn’t the verbs be “lives” and “reigns”? I’m confused…
 
One thing I noticed with the new translation and that I never got around to discussing is the use of singular and plural verbs. I noticed that at the end of the opening prayer at Mass that the words say, “who live and reign forever and ever…”, and those prayers are speaking of God of course. Now, since the words are speaking of one person, shouldn’t the verbs be “lives” and “reigns”? I’m confused…
[You] who live and reign forever and ever.” (And yes, qui vivis et regnas in saecula saeculorum is in the second person singular.) Not entirely wrong. 😉
 
One thing I noticed with the new translation and that I never got around to discussing is the use of singular and plural verbs. I noticed that at the end of the opening prayer at Mass that the words say, “who live and reign forever and ever…”, and those prayers are speaking of God of course. Now, since the words are speaking of one person, shouldn’t the verbs be “lives” and “reigns”? I’m confused…
The prayers are addressed directly to God. We say “you live” and “you reign” not “you lives” and “you reigns”. Similarly, we say “you … who live” and “you … who reign”.
 
One thing I noticed with the new translation and that I never got around to discussing is the use of singular and plural verbs. I noticed that at the end of the opening prayer at Mass that the words say, “who live and reign forever and ever…”, and those prayers are speaking of God of course. Now, since the words are speaking of one person, shouldn’t the verbs be “lives” and “reigns”? I’m confused…
Maybe it sounds weird because the Latin-English Missal translations are “who liveth and reigneth…world without end”? (I still don’t know why the translation can’t be “ages of ages” as in the other languages. But “forever and ever”? Why the “and ever”? But I digress.)
 
It is not a matter of singular and plural, but of the pronoun that is used or implied in the prayer

The words* lives and reigns* are used when the prayer is addressed the the Father, but makes reference to the Son; thus the subject of that clause is the Son, as in “[He] who lives and reigns…” The words live and reign are used when the prayer is already addressed to God the Son, and thus the subject of the clause is “[You] who live and reign…”
 
One thing I noticed with the new translation and that I never got around to discussing is the use of singular and plural verbs. I noticed that at the end of the opening prayer at Mass that the words say, “who live and reign forever and ever…”, and those prayers are speaking of God of course. Now, since the words are speaking of one person, shouldn’t the verbs be “lives” and “reigns”? I’m confused…
In the third person, you would be correct. However, since the ends of the orations are in the second person (albeit usually with implied subjects, similar to the imperative mood, but actually being in the indicative mood), the conjugations do not end in s.

Sincerely, the resident grammar nerd.
 
I had to go look at my Sunday Missal and, maybe it’s a Canadian thing, every Opening Collect I’ve looked at ends with “Through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son, who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.”
 
I had to go look at my Sunday Missal and, maybe it’s a Canadian thing, every Opening Collect I’ve looked at ends with “Through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son, who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.”
Most are that way, but not when the prayer is addressed to God the Son. The following prayer is part of every Mass:

**Lord Jesus Christ, **
**who said to your Apostles: **
**Peace I leave you, my peace I give you; **
**look not on our sins, **
**but on the faith of your Church, **
**and graciously grant her peace and unity **
**in accordance with your will. **
Who live and reign for ever and ever.
 
[You] who live and reign forever and ever.” (And yes, qui vivis et regnas in saecula saeculorum is in the second person singular.) Not entirely wrong. 😉
In the way I was taught how to translation, “you” (or “thou”) is required in the English. “Who” is not specific enough and English is not inflective enough to go without a second person pronoun.
 
Oh, that makes a lot of sense now. I just never thought of it that way.
 
I had to go look at my Sunday Missal and, maybe it’s a Canadian thing, every Opening Collect I’ve looked at ends with “Through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son, who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.”
That’s simple. Qui tecum vivit et regnat “who lives and reigns with you” here qualifies the preceding phrase “our Lord Jesus Christ” - so it would obviously be in the third-person. Here, however, qui vivis et regnas “who live and reign” (second-person) qualifies the addressee named at the beginning of the prayer (“Almighty and ever-living God”, etc.)
 
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