New translation of the Mass coming your way!

[Jordan_1]

Hi,

Dont know if it will be implemented, but it does seem more accurate. For instance, in the Penitental rite, whn I hear it in latin, was:

“… mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. . .”

which I always wondered what it was in english, but now I know:

“…through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault…”

In the orignal “I confess”, it didn’t have this? Why not? Why was it so blatantly skipped?

Has our current Mass been invalidly interpretated?

Im concerned and confused :ehh:

 

[mommy]

TNT:

GEE!
How fast a Neo can become a “trad” when it’s THEIR tradition that’s being gored!

Trads are constantly being ridiculed for " why change it?" and “I also dont like the change”! and “I like it the way it is.” when it came to the TLM getting gored by the NOM.

I’ve never claimed to be either I’ve also never ridiculed anyone because they like TLM over the other. In fact, I’ve figured if you like one or the other, fine, just don’t scream at the other guy for not agreeing. I’ve never been to a latin mass, because there’s not one near me, so I really can’t judge between the two.

I don’t understand why, if this is the “new mass” we’re getting a “newer mass” and some of the phrases just didn’t sound right to me.

Obviously if it changes I’ll go with it, but hey - when you convert there’s a LOT to learn in a short period of time cut me a little slack if I don’t want to have to learn it all over again right away.

 

[SouthCoast]

Dr. Bombay:

Hooray! They removed that troubling “for us men” phrase from the Creed. The inclusive language crowd will be so proud. Of course, I know a priest who’s dropped that phrase for years, so it won’t be a change for him. That’s the great thing about being a priest. You own the Mass and you can change it any way you see fit.

Now, we need to work on getting the other part changed to: “became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made person.”

I can’t imagine the final draft is going to be anything like what was linked to. I don’t trust our bishops as far as I can throw them. They’ll find some way to dumb it down and make it even more insipid than the current translation.

Please tell me you’re being sarcastic about the inclusive language ****. The term “man” and “mankind” are synonymous with “human” or “human-kind.” Last time I checked, Jesus became flesh as a man.

-Michael

 

[rcn]

-Jordan:

Has our current Mass been invalidly interpretated?
Im concerned and confused

The current Mass has been validly translated and approved by those in authority to do so. It is simply not necessary to get hung up over every single word of the Latin.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

SouthCoast:

Please tell me you’re being sarcastic about the inclusive language ****. The term “man” and “mankind” are synonymous with “human” or “human-kind.” Last time I checked, Jesus became flesh as a man.

-Michael

Dude…of course I was being sarcastic. That’s why I used the sarcastic smiley face. These guys are also good for conveying sarcasm, irony, etc. depending on the context: :tiphat: Cute little fellas, aren’t they?

On to other issues…I really do believe that predicting what the Holy Spirit will lead our beloved Pope to do or not do regarding the Mass is a fantasy. (see, pretty effective, eh?)

 

[Cradle]

SouthCoast:

…The term “man” and “mankind” are synonymous with “human” or “human-kind.” Last time I checked, Jesus became flesh as a man.

-Michael

Yes. EXACTLY! This is one of the biggest things that bug me about the new translation… I really hope it doesn’t pass. WHY are we giving the liberals/heterodox what they want with this “inclusive” wording?!

The Gloria and the Creed are akward also, at least in English… Does this translation follow the Latin Gloria (which, yes, is beautiful) better? Never mind, I’ll compare them myself… And I see no reason to change the Creed…

Anyway, I could get used to the other changes… but the “inclusive” language disgusts me… :nope:

 

[countrylily]

Sorry folks but everything in the New Mass is a mess. It needs to go back to the Traditional Latin. Let us not forget that those in Vatican Council II had no right to change any of it. Let us not forget who changed it and made it such a mess. 6 Lutherans and Bugnini, it may be interesting to note that Bugnini’s name has surfaced several times in the registries of various Masonic Lodges in Italy. It is not difficult to discern this when one sees what he did, as well as, what he says in his memoirs. The man was an evil man intent on the complete destruction of the Catholic Church from within her very bosom.

The New mass of today uses the erroneous idea of “active participation” which implies that contemplative silent prayer is neither active nor participatory. Accordingly, it implies that in order to really pray in the Mass it is necessary to respond to the priest out loud. This was a master stroke of the devil. We have been convinced that we are not participating if we are not jabbering. The result of this concept being applied is evident from experience. We are distracted from the very purpose of prayer (union with God) by praying. Instead of kneeling at the foot of the cross in silent adoration we pay “lip service” to God without the slightest need to adore Him as He deserves

How man Roman Catholics now days truly believe that Christ’s Body Blood Soul and Divinity are truly present in the Blessed Sacrament?

 

[FrRobSST]

Before totally writing off the Missal of Paul VI, I would highly suggest looking at Christian history. Participative worship is indicated. Heck, we have imagery and archeological evidence that shows that people gathered right up around the Altar in the ancient Church… and these were people who died rather than betray the Eucharist. These were the people who, in the Syriac rites, developed the wonderful prayer that begins, “Abide in peace, holy Altar of God, for I do not know if I shall ever again return to you to offer sacrifice…”

Do you want to know what the problem is? Kumbyah Christianity and Kumbyah Catholicisim in particular has KILLED OFF MYSTICISIM! We would know a genuine mystical experience if it smashed our brains into mush!

When we go to Mass, we are surrounded by angels and archangels and all the choirs of heaven. We are draw at the same time to the foot of the Cross and to the Banquet of heaven, where we receive the true Body and Blood of Christ and a foretaste of the feast that is to come. We even confess it in the Liturgy! But does anyone believe it? NO! Why? Because most modern theology (or at least theological expression) is based on that dag-nabbed bug called Rationalisim.

We need to reclaim not just the Sacred but the mystic sense of our worship. Words and what direction we face wont’ change that alone. We need a fundamental shift in the thinking behind our worship. Only then will our beliefs begin to realign with what we know they should be.

Rob+

 

[tuopaolo]

SouthCoast:

Please tell me you’re being sarcastic about the inclusive language ****. The term “man” and “mankind” are synonymous with “human” or “human-kind.” Last time I checked, Jesus became flesh as a man.

-Michael

I’m 100% sure he was being sarcastic. A translation that says: “became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made person” would be heretical as the Son of God was not made a person at all but is from all eternity a divine person, eternally begotten, not made, from the Father.

 

[MrS]

countrylily:

Sorry folks but everything in the New Mass is a mess. It needs to go back to the Traditional Latin. Let us not forget that those in Vatican Council II had no right to change any of it. Let us not forget who changed it and made it such a mess. 6 Lutherans and Bugnini, it may be interesting to note that Bugnini’s name has surfaced several times in the registries of various Masonic Lodges in Italy. It is not difficult to discern this when one sees what he did, as well as, what he says in his memoirs. The man was an evil man intent on the complete destruction of the Catholic Church from within her very bosom.

The New mass of today uses the erroneous idea of “active participation” which implies that contemplative silent prayer is neither active nor participatory. Accordingly, it implies that in order to really pray in the Mass it is necessary to respond to the priest out loud. This was a master stroke of the devil. We have been convinced that we are not participating if we are not jabbering. The result of this concept being applied is evident from experience. We are distracted from the very purpose of prayer (union with God) by praying. Instead of kneeling at the foot of the cross in silent adoration we pay “lip service” to God without the slightest need to adore Him as He deserves

How man Roman Catholics now days truly believe that Christ’s Body Blood Soul and Divinity are truly present in the Blessed Sacrament?

Welcome, new member…

Thank you for your comments, all of which I agree with. God Bless

 

[tuopaolo]

Looking at the differences, I can see why belief in the Real Presence, devotion to Mary, belief in the holy sacrifice of the Mass, has declined. The only thing I didn’t like with the translation was at the very end, the dismissal and maybe one other thing that I don’t remember right now.

 

[netmilsmom]

How close is this to the TLM???

 

[countrylily]

With reqards to the new translation of the New mass: Unless it is the Mass of all ages passed down through tradition then it still is not the Mass of old. That brings me to”What is the Mass? The Mass is the unbloody sacrifice of Calvery, it is the sacrifice of the New Law in which Christ, through the ministry of the priest, offers Himself to God in an unbloody manner under the appearances of bread and wine. What is the Holy Eucharist? The Holy Eucharist is a sacrament and a sacrifice in which Our Saviour Jesus Christ, body and blood, soul and divinity is contained, offered and received under the appearances of bread and wine. Now why do We Catholics believe that Christ changed bread and wine into His own Body and Blood? We believe this because Christ’s own words clearly say so. At the Last Supper he said: “This is My Body” not “This is a symbol of My Body,” or This represents My Body” Read up on some of lives of the Saints they will tell you that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is our Heaven on Earth. To finish I will say the purpose of the Holy Mass is: to adore God as our Creator (not to adore Man like the new Mass does) To thank God for His many favors, To ask God for His blessings. With that I would say unless this new translation puts Christ back on the Alter and Glorifies Him alone and not man then it still will not be good enough for me.

 

[uxordepp]

Lily

The problem with this line of thinking is that the TLM as the universal norm in the Church only dates back to the Council of Trent. That would be only about 500 years old.

In the early years of the Church, Latin was not universally used. This is why we have the Kyrie…it is a remnant of the Mass as it was once said in Greek.

There are rites in Communion with Rome that validly use other languages, too. I believe it is that Maronite Rite that uses Aramaic…a language older than Latin

I guess my point is that valid Masses were peformed before the Tridentine Mass was made the norm, so why must we be so obstinate in believing that it can be the only valid form?

I do agree that the current translation could have been done better. I am in Canada where we’ve been suffering with the NRSV as our lectionary translation.

I will be glad to see terms like “Holy” Communion and “Most Precious” Blood restored, rather than the plainer terms we use now.

I believe that the biggest problem with the post-Vatican II liturgy is that it was implemented so badly.

If the new Pope simply sees that we move toward the letter rather than that troublesome “spirit” of Vatican II, we will be better off.

Unfortunately, it will be too late for all the parishes that have uselessly destroyed their lovely old altars in the name of V2 liturgical reforms, which never actually demanded this action.

 

[rcn]

countrylily:

unless this new translation puts Christ back on the Alter and Glorifies Him alone and not man then it still will not be good enough for me

So you’re saying that in the present mass, Christ is not even on the altar?

I feel sorry for you. You’re new here; I think you’ll quickly find that you’ll be in the extreme minority.

 

[otm]

-Jordan:

Hi,

Dont know if it will be implemented, but it does seem more accurate. For instance, in the Penitental rite, whn I hear it in latin, was:

“… mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. . .”

which I always wondered what it was in english, but now I know:

“…through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault…”

In the orignal “I confess”, it didn’t have this? Why not? Why was it so blatantly skipped?

Has our current Mass been invalidly interpretated?

Im concerned and confused :ehh:

I’m really not sure what you are confused about. The Mass wasn’t invalidly interpreted. The prayers were changed. The prayers were not doctrinally dictated, other than the few words of the Consecration, and the fact that the Mass as it came to be some time during the lifetime of the Apostles included the readings of Scripture.
The general prayers can be changed.

 

[tuopaolo]

rcn:

So you’re saying that in the present mass, Christ is not even on the altar?

I feel sorry for you. You’re new here; I think you’ll quickly find that you’ll be in the extreme minority.

rcn, I think what he was saying was not that Christ was not literally on the altar, but that the focus of the Mass is not Christ on the altar, with the emphasis on the horizontal aspect and so forth.

 

[Podo2004]

countrylily:

Sorry folks but everything in the New Mass is a mess. It needs to go back to the Traditional Latin. Let us not forget that those in Vatican Council II had no right to change any of it. Let us not forget who changed it and made it such a mess. 6 Lutherans and Bugnini, it may be interesting to note that Bugnini’s name has surfaced several times in the registries of various Masonic Lodges in Italy. It is not difficult to discern this when one sees what he did, as well as, what he says in his memoirs. The man was an evil man intent on the complete destruction of the Catholic Church from within her very bosom.

The New mass of today uses the erroneous idea of “active participation” which implies that contemplative silent prayer is neither active nor participatory. Accordingly, it implies that in order to really pray in the Mass it is necessary to respond to the priest out loud. This was a master stroke of the devil. We have been convinced that we are not participating if we are not jabbering. The result of this concept being applied is evident from experience. We are distracted from the very purpose of prayer (union with God) by praying. Instead of kneeling at the foot of the cross in silent adoration we pay “lip service” to God without the slightest need to adore Him as He deserves

How man Roman Catholics now days truly believe that Christ’s Body Blood Soul and Divinity are truly present in the Blessed Sacrament?

well build a time machine and go back when the tlm was the norm , stick to the times and stop lecturing us on reverence and adoration because that’s exactly what alot of people( exceptions people on this site) can do with the NO mass. By the way Church refers to a community therefore we need active participation to maintain it. We are the church, a community not alone in prayer like it used to be. Why don’t you want to be active in mass? The mass is a celebration! Sure at appropriate times you pray silently, but other times you respond out loud or sing, or hold hands, or do all those lovable things that seem to kill you guys…
When you participate in mass(be it praying and singing in the congregation or serving as an altar server ,lector,etc.) You give God praise and adoration as he deserves.
Podo

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Podo2004:

well build a time machine and go back when the tlm was the norm , stick to the times and stop lecturing us on reverence and adoration because that’s exactly what alot of people( exceptions people on this site) can do with the NO mass. By the way Church refers to a community therefore we need active participation to maintain it. We are the church, a community not alone in prayer like it used to be. Why don’t you want to be active in mass? The mass is a celebration! Sure at appropriate times you pray silently, but other times you respond out loud or sing, or hold hands, or do all those lovable things that seem to kill you guys…
When you participate in mass(be it praying and singing in the congregation or serving as an altar server ,lector,etc.) You give God praise and adoration as he deserves.
Podo

That’s a peculiar attitude. I’ve been to many a Mass, new and old, where I didn’t say word one to another person from the time I entered the church to the time I got back in my car to go home. I assure you, however, that I was actively participating in Mass and communing with my God.

And there’s nothing “lovable” about you sliding your sweaty palm into mine as if we’re lovers while I’m trying to pray. Keep your hands to yourself, princess, and stop violating my personal space. :tsktsk:

 

[chadwilliams]

UKcatholicGuy:

you guys heard? there is a NEW translation of the English Mass coming to America! It’s much more reverent in its language and follows the original latin more closely. not sure when it’s due to be implemented, but you can view it, side-by-side with the current translation here:

canticanova.com/articles/liturgy/art9ac1.htm

God bless

I like most of it, but the Creed smacks of inclusive language by omitting “men” from “Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven.”

I guess they just couldn’t let it go.