New way to fight Abortion

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Crow:
He who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword.
😉
Yep, in all serious, if a generation creates children who will not respect life, then that generation shouldn’t be surprised if the children turn on them eventually.
 
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josephdavid:
materialism and individualism has taken too much of a hold with in this country for this to happen.

Sad isnt it. Some one spends $3,000.00 on an flat screen TV. WHen there are mothers with children homeless with in our own country. We eat like billy goats with out regards to our health and there are 46 million people with out healthcare.

We are rapidly destroying our environment whle our children are suffering from high levels of mercury and pollution related athesma.

We need to set all our priorities straight.
Rapidly destroying our environment? I wasn’t aware of that. Jesus said “The poor you have with you always.” I am not justifying selfishness and greed, but the fact is that homelessness, poverty, and so forth are caused by many factors including mental illness, drug addiction, and the ebb and flow of economics.
 
and it doenst make others selfish to only have one or two kids, if thats all they feel that they can lovingly support and care for. thats between them and God how many children they can have and provide for. they shouldn’t be made to feel ashamed of not having children. sometimes financial, or physical or emotional problems prevent couples from having more than the “shameful” 1 or 2 and they should not be judged by that.
Actually, I do believe the person you responded to has a point. This has to do with economics, not with individual families.

You have to look at the economics of inflation and what causes it. The price of a product depends on supply and demand – that is how much the product costs to make and and how high the demand is for a product. The demand is determined by how much money people have to spend and what percentage they are willing to spend on that product. The wealthiest person will be willing to spend more money on the same product than a poorer person (granted the wealthiest person likely will try to get the product as a price as low as he can get). Meanwhile the seller of the product wants to get as much money for the product as possible. So he takes into consideration how much of the product he can make (how much he has). He wants to sell it (taking into consideration his competition) for as much as he can to get the biggest profit. If he sells it at too high of a price, per item he’ll make more of a profit, but he won’t sell as much and the total profit he makes won’t be high. If he sells it at too low of a price, he will make little profit either way and will run out of the product before he satisifies the demand.

The demand line it determined by a percentage and is not based on the individual but on the average income. The higher the average income goes, the more money the average consumer is willing to spend. Thus the price of products go up in line with it and the cost of living rises. This is inflation. To counteract inflation, people’s salaries are raised. The raise in salary actually causes the inflation that occurs in the future. The effects aren’t instantaneous, but so long as we keep adding more money to the system, the cost of living will continue to rise. The sacrifice of causing a deflation typically is not one that is made in a society as a whole so it makes it very unlikely that a penny will ever hold the significance it did a half century ago.

But the thing is that families do not spend on individual income. They spend on family income. What does the family make as a whole? When the average family was a single income family, the cost of living was at a level where it was feesible to live like that rather reasonably. Around the 70’s, women went to work out of choice and because, so long as they were a minority, it increased their standard of living. The family was able to get more. Well everyone was like “More money and heck liberation for women.” They rushed to getting employed and soon enough the average family became a too income family and then inflation caught up deadlocking us into double income families.

This is part of the reason I am against equal pay for women. Women don’t get paid less because of discrimination. They get paid less because women tend to have strong desires that defer them from becoming the primary bread winner. We’re more willing to quit our jobs for the sake of our family. We’re more willing to limit our job search to the region our husband found a job. We’re less willing to travel. And as a result we tend to get paid less because we accept lower incomes.

But if our incomes ever became 50/50, we would be even more trapped in employment than we are now. Because remember we spend based on our total household income. So a family who has an income of 70/30, the person who makes 30 has more freedom and hurts the household income less than if the person who made 70% of the income lost his job.

I like have the freedom to employment but I also want to keep my freedom to be unemployed for the sake of tending to the daily neccessities of my family. Families should be based on love, not based on making sure that everything is divided out evenly.
 
I agree wholeheartedly, but let’s not hijack the thread.

If I really believed that would solve the problem, I’d do it in a heartbeat. It sure would beat paying the 30-40% I pay now that goes to all sorts of programs I don’t support!

You know what though? I don’t think it would even take that much!
 
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DreadVandal:
Rapidly destroying our environment? I wasn’t aware of that. Jesus said “The poor you have with you always.” I am not justifying selfishness and greed, but the fact is that homelessness, poverty, and so forth are caused by many factors including mental illness, drug addiction, and the ebb and flow of economics.
I am not sure what your point was. sorry.

But I did mention that over consumption and corruption has caused the poverty rate. When the cost of living goes up as real take home income drops it can cause despair.

Out of 1.3 million abortions performed last year over 40% blamed some sort of economic hardship. Although still not an excuse to terminate another life.
 
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vluvski:
I agree wholeheartedly, but let’s not hijack the thread.

If I really believed that would solve the problem, I’d do it in a heartbeat. It sure would beat paying the 30-40% I pay now that goes to all sorts of programs I don’t support!

You know what though? I don’t think it would even take that much!
You right it does take more than money. You can throw all the money you want at it but if it does not have full support of society and a collective effort of society it will not work. Some one will find a way to waste the money.

Take a look how our money is being spent on homeland security. Some of it went to purchase golf carts for a certain village.
 
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DreadVandal:
Rapidly destroying our environment? I wasn’t aware of that. Jesus said “The poor you have with you always.” I am not justifying selfishness and greed, but the fact is that homelessness, poverty, and so forth are caused by many factors including mental illness, drug addiction, and the ebb and flow of economics.
When he said that he didn’t mean we shouldn’t help them. He probably realized that most people are too greedy and selfish to ever eradicate poverty. The problems that cause poverty need to be addressed and solved. “The least of these” - remember?
 
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koda:
When he said that he didn’t mean we shouldn’t help them. He probably realized that most people are too greedy and selfish to ever eradicate poverty. The problems that cause poverty need to be addressed and solved. “The least of these” - remember?
Oh, don’t misunderstand me. I’m not opposed to sound policy that does what it can to alleviate poverty. I’m just saying that poverty and all other social, economic, and moral evils will be with us until Christ returns and we should not expect them to be eliminated beforehand.
 
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vluvski:
I agree wholeheartedly, but let’s not hijack the thread.

If I really believed that would solve the problem, I’d do it in a heartbeat. It sure would beat paying the 30-40% I pay now that goes to all sorts of programs I don’t support!

You know what though? I don’t think it would even take that much!
Well, I think that 15% would be on top of the nearly 50% that you pay now (I’m including state taxes, local taxes, and the inflation caused by all of the excessive taxation and regulation of business) 😛
 
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josephdavid:
I am not sure what your point was. sorry.

But I did mention that over consumption and corruption has caused the poverty rate. When the cost of living goes up as real take home income drops it can cause despair.

Out of 1.3 million abortions performed last year over 40% blamed some sort of economic hardship. Although still not an excuse to terminate another life.
We are on the same side, I have to remind myself of that 🙂

My point was that I don’t think that the elimination of abortion will happen through social programs. I am not saying you were advocating more funding for social programs. I’m just saying, with regard to the original topic of this thread, that a pro-life tax to prevent abortion through the funding of keeping these unwanted babies alive would not work. People would have abortions anyway.

BTW, given the incredibly long waiting lists for adopting newborns, one would think that if every mother, about to abort her child, would put it up for adoption instead, then there still might be a waiting list (just smaller) for adoption. There are plenty of people out there who will take care of these children. That is not the problem.

The problem is that society supports our women terminating their pregnancies for any reason they so choose.
 
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DreadVandal:
BTW, given the incredibly long waiting lists for adopting newborns, one would think that if every mother, about to abort her child, would put it up for adoption instead, then there still might be a waiting list (just smaller) for adoption. There are plenty of people out there who will take care of these children. That is not the problem.
You’ve need to look at this from a different angle - the problem is being pregnant for 9 months. I heard a story of a woman who had an abortion because she was very poor and her boss would fire her if she took any time off (she’s an illegal). She could not risk complications, etc… that would have cost her her job - she was sending the money back to her family in Mexico where she already had children. This is extreme I know, but there are women who I’m sure would give up their kids for adoption if they had the finanical ability to make it until delivery. I’m not sure how much help is out there, though I assume there is more than we know. It would be good if these resources were made more public. I also know some underage girls whose parents insisted on the abortion, but on the plus side I know some who didn’t and are now raising their grandkids since their kids (the parents) aren’t up to it.
 
I would be willing to part with any amount of money to save a human life, but this strategy won’t work. It doesn’t attack the root of the problem, which is the contraceptive mentality that says that sex is strictly for pleasure, not unitive love or conception. I vote for pro-life causes whenever they come up and i try to do my best to foster a culture of life in my family and community to try to show others the dignity of every human life. If i knew a pregnant girl who was thinking of aborting, i would take her under my roof and help care for her and the baby in a heartbeat (not that i’d have to since we have a wonderful maternity home in our community). Even if we did put our money where our mouths are, however, there is no way the feminists of this nation would let go of abortion. They’d just turn around and saying we were paying to oppress women and wasting money that could be better spent on poverty and college loans, etc. When people won’t argue logically, there’s no point in trying to teach pigs to read. 😦
 
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Crow:
Assuming the premise of 15% to be adequate, and assuming that all money went to help the children; I would honestly put forth 15% of my wages towards this.

My conscience would not allow me to turn down the opportunity to save so many lives, no matter the personnal costs.

However, it would nonetheless be very unfair. It is always the honest person who pays for the thieves, and in this case, the people who respect life will pay the burden of would-be murderers.
I myself am in 100% full agreement with you on every word.
John
 
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she_he:
the reason lawmakers are not so inclined to outlaw abortion is they have no idea where the money to support a 3/4 of a million new Babies every year will come from, try what I have heard a pro choice person say you should be willing to do if you are so set on outlawing
Ok, so let’s kill 'em and we won’t have to worry about them. Heck, what’s keeping them from killing every healthy, born baby of someone on welfare? That would save a lot of money, don’t you think? And while we’re at it, why not just kill everyone on welfare altogether? Could you imagine the decrease in our taxes and all that money the government wouldn’t be “wasting” on those people? Hey, why not kill everyone in prison! That would save a lot of money and labor!

This argument just goes to show that pro-abortion people really don’t have any good arguments. They have to resort to something like this! They even call them “babies” in this one! You know they’re getting desperate if they do that :rolleyes:

By the way, how to pay for 3/4 million babies? Don’t–let the parents do it–either biological or adoptive 🙂
 
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CatholicSam:
Ok, so let’s kill 'em and we won’t have to worry about them. Heck, what’s keeping them from killing every healthy, born baby of someone on welfare? That would save a lot of money, don’t you think? And while we’re at it, why not just kill everyone on welfare altogether? Could you imagine the decrease in our taxes and all that money the government wouldn’t be “wasting” on those people? Hey, why not kill everyone in prison! That would save a lot of money and labor!

This argument just goes to show that pro-abortion people really don’t have any good arguments. They have to resort to something like this! They even call them “babies” in this one! You know they’re getting desperate if they do that :rolleyes:

By the way, how to pay for 3/4 million babies? Don’t–let the parents do it–either biological or adoptive 🙂
One I am not pro abortion the question is posted to prove a point to someone,

that point being that a lot of people feel abortion is wrong until it may cost them some money then they run like the wind.
they are all fire happy to be a part of getting a law made till they find out its gonna have to be paid for
On the other hand it also proves that most people believe with all thier heart that abortion is wrong in any circumstance and as such are willing to pay the price no matter how unfair it is…

your statement as written recieves about as much merit as a pro choicers does it lacks facts,or even scientific value "just kill’em all
isnt that what anti abortion want to end?

I am not pro abortion but i find it repulsive that some anti’s feel its fine to blow up abortion clinics with people inside. murder is murder.

John
 
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she_he:
One I am not pro abortion the question is posted to prove a point to someone,

that point being that a lot of people feel abortion is wrong until it may cost them some money then they run like the wind.
they are all fire happy to be a part of getting a law made till they find out its gonna have to be paid for
On the other hand it also proves that most people believe with all thier heart that abortion is wrong in any circumstance and as such are willing to pay the price no matter how unfair it is…

your statement as written recieves about as much merit as a pro choicers does it lacks facts,or even scientific value "just kill’em all
isnt that what anti abortion want to end?

I am not pro abortion but i find it repulsive that some anti’s feel its fine to blow up abortion clinics with people inside. murder is murder.

John
  1. What does this argument have to do with a psycho blowing up an abortion clinic?
  2. This argument basically backfires on the pro-abortion people, showing that they are willing to kill for a profit.
  3. Hopefully now that I have shortened my point to one sentence John will be able to understand what I am trying to say. If not, oh well 🙂
 
By the way, I guess since I am making this effort to reply, I might as well mention that my first statement that John found so repulsive was obviously sarcastic. Yes, John, it was *meant * to sound a lot like the pro-choicers, since I was following through with the train of thought they present in the argument this thread is discussing.
 
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CatholicSam:
By the way, I guess since I am making this effort to reply, I might as well mention that my first statement that John found so repulsive was obviously sarcastic. Yes, John, it was *meant *to sound a lot like the pro-choicers, since I was following through with the train of thought they present in the argument this thread is discussing.
I missed that and appologize,just been getting a lot of private messages calling a pro abortionist murder etc
and i obviously jumped the gun
I put this post up to prove a point to someone because quite frankly i am sick of hearing all his BS about choice and costs
to money is an irrelavant issue,but thats there biggest claims
of the people i talk to “money”
John
 
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she_he:
I missed that and appologize,just been getting a lot of private messages calling a pro abortionist murder etc
and i obviously jumped the gun
I put this post up to prove a point to someone because quite frankly i am sick of hearing all his BS about choice and costs
to money is an irrelavant issue,but thats there biggest claims
of the people i talk to “money”
Code:
                    John
Exactly! :mad:

Human life is priceless, and if that means more taxes, so be it. Although that argument really makes no sense, as you’ve pointed out 🙂
 
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CatholicSam:
Exactly! :mad:

Human life is priceless, and if that means more taxes, so be it. Although that argument really makes no sense, as you’ve pointed out 🙂
No i agree it makes no sense but the “pro killers” actually beieve that because they are in favor of abortion they shouldnt be burdened with the cost if they are outlawed,
just like many feel that a person sitting in prison for the rest of thier lives with no chance of parole should be put to death and not burden the taxpayer…

Its not right to base things on money,but really what is right in thier arguements?
John
 
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