New wine, old wineskins?

[Sacred_Heart_1]

I missread you, yes I agree. The New Covenant supersedes the Old.

What do you mean by "out with the Old Testament’?

If you mean disregard it, that is not what the New Testament does. The NT fulfills the OT and explains the law and the prophets. You can’t have the New Testament without the Old. I’m sure you already know that.

 

[Luvtosew]

What you said in your post above your last post.You worded it better.

You can’t have the New Testament without the Old. I’m sure you already know that.
Yes

 

[NotWorthy]

Actually, the Old Covenant is the New Covenant fulfilled by Jesus.

Yes, the New Covenant is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant just as the butterfly is the fulfillment of what the caterpillar is intended to be.

 

[bmullins]

I’ve always read this to mean that we need a regenerate mind to follow the gospel of grace. A man who is not regenerated, is an old wine skin. How can one live the life with the Holy Spirit in them while letting their flesh run wild? They simply allow the new wine to run back out.

In the same token once we are made new, if we go back under the law we ruin the new one. We need the Covenant of Grace not the one at Sinai to stay regenerated. The old one just brings us back under our sin, and we become the old one again.

But if we are regenerated (baptized, filled with the spirit, and attempting to live a life filled with grace including receiving the sacraments) we are a new wine skin, and the new wine (the New Covenant) remains in and with us.

 

[NotWorthy]

Here’s what the Ignatius Study Bible says:

Jesus is illustrating the impossibility of inaugurating the New Covenant while maintaining the Old. The abundance of New Covenant grace cannot be contained within the structures of the Old Covenant. A new kingdom is needed to contain it - one fashioned to endure for ever.

 

[Not_Sure_1]

"quote

I have never understood Mk 2:22. I understand that unfermented wine will expand and stretch the skin of its container as it ferments, thus breaking an already stretched “old wineskin.” But I don’t understand the analogy. I cannot even remember anyone explaining its meaning as with the parables. Anyone?

One other question that I’ll try to slip in: If God is infinite, then there is no place that He is not. True? If hell is were souls are eternally separate from God, then doesn’t that put a boundary where God is not? i.e. bounded, therefore, not infinite? This has always bothered me.

“And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: otherwise the wine will burst the bottles, and both the wine will be spilled, and the bottles will be lost. But new wine must be put into new bottles.” Matt 2:22

My understanding of this parable is that Christ is speaking of himself as the new covenant. God’s covenant with his people prior consisted of the law brought to the Israelites by Moses. That was the old wine and the old bottles were his chosen people. The new wine is the new covenant and the new bottles are the believers of Christ. He wanted to convey that his resurrection wouldn’t have been effective and/or justified if it had been meant for only the Jew. It turns out that as it was, many Jews of the time did not come to believe, as the Gospel indicates. Putting the new wine into the new bottles makes perfect sense now that we can see with hindsight as the fresh bottles symbolize those renewed in faith by baptism in the Holy Spirit (consisting of both Jew and Gentile alike).

Some here may have a completely different take as I’m sure there are varying teachings
on this parable and this is just what occurs to me.

The other question may be better suited for a different thread as I’ve seen some serious discussion on that topic elsewhere.

Blessings to all,
Shaun

I’ve heard it like this:

God’s love wonders the souls in heaven, purifies the souls in purgatory, and burns the souls in hell.

 

[suffertoperfect]

In our world, God is Present, but man is not always aware of His Presence. Although man is not aware of God’s Presence, the believer is certain that God Exists. Therefore, God is Present independent of man’s awareness of Him. Furthermore, the awareness of God’s Existence is a special Grace that God bestows upon His Creation. Since Heaven is complete Union with God, the Saint will always possess God’s Presence:Joy that is Complete. To avoid controversy, it is True to define Hell as a place where man is eternally unaware of God’ Presence.