New World Translation and other Bibles

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It seems to me if a Bible translation is altered to support a particular theology it is an admission that the theology is not compatible with scripture. Has anyone done a thourough deconstruction of NWT? On the internet there are enough JWs it seems to keep this as a “good” literal translation with its casting doubt on the Trinity.

Is there a good work that seriously traces the evolution of the NWT and how it has warped scripture to match its theology?

Or is it in fact a bible and the Trinity is not clearly revealed by scripture and one needs sacred tradition?

I am concerned that JW keeps thriving with doctrinal ideas against Jesus as Lord and yet it is still being discussed in terms of the Holy Bible. Doesn’t it have more in common with Islam? Being non-trinitarian but also basing itself on a corruption of exegesis from the OT and NT?

Do people who join JW realize that they are denying that Jesus is Lord and the sacrifice could not be perfect and fulfilling if He were not Who He said He was?

People go through all the effort of trying to follow God and then ignore His Son. It is sad. How can we clarify the Truth. The internet is surely garbled as it is now.
 
For the NWT you may want to try www.freeminds.org and www.catholicxjw.com

They may have some articles and links to get you started.

A big part of the problem is the NWT is a bit of a joke in the scripture scholar community. Most don’t take it seriously and won’t spend much time with it.

An evangelical named Robert Bowman wrote a book called, “Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus Christ and the Gospel of John” that deals specifically with John 1:1 and John 8:58. It’s a good book, but it does get kind of technical in Greek.
 
Thank you for the links.
If a Moderator see this could they move it to the Scripture forum.
Sorry and thanks!
 
It seems to me if a Bible translation is altered to support a particular theology it is an admission that the theology is not compatible with scripture. Has anyone done a thourough deconstruction of NWT? On the internet there are enough JWs it seems to keep this as a “good” literal translation with its casting doubt on the Trinity.

Is there a good work that seriously traces the evolution of the NWT and how it has warped scripture to match its theology?

Or is it in fact a bible and the Trinity is not clearly revealed by scripture and one needs sacred tradition?

I am concerned that JW keeps thriving with doctrinal ideas against Jesus as Lord and yet it is still being discussed in terms of the Holy Bible. Doesn’t it have more in common with Islam? Being non-trinitarian but also basing itself on a corruption of exegesis from the OT and NT?

Do people who join JW realize that they are denying that Jesus is Lord and the sacrifice could not be perfect and fulfilling if He were not Who He said He was?

People go through all the effort of trying to follow God and then ignore His Son. It is sad. How can we clarify the Truth. The internet is surely garbled as it is now.
I saw an interesting documentary about JWs. It would seem that none of the men who worked on the NWT were language scholars! If I remember correctly, one of the men was actually a short-order cook from Boston with only a High school education.:confused:
 
Alexius said:
It is possible to defeat their arguments, but you cannot use the Bible, as they will say you are misinterpreting it. What you can argue is their history, but most importantly, you can and should argue their Watchtower pamphlets. These have been changed many times. They really have little to say in return and that is why they don’t come to my house anymore…😉

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
In lieu of going to your house, perhaps a visit with you here may suffice.

Perhaps, unknown to some, within the first year of its publication, The Watch Tower magazine stated:

“We do not object to changing our opinions, on any subject, or discarding former applications of prophecy, or any other scripture, when we see a good reason for the change,–in fact, it is as important that we should be willing to unlearn errors and mere traditions, as to learn truth."

From: “The Ten Virgins,” article appearing within: Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence, October 1879, reprint, p. 38. (It may interest you to know that, throughout the years, many of such similar statements have also been made.)

Therefore, not only was the expectation for change anticipated, it had been very early on presented as quite often necessary – and this would have been especially true in view of the fact that they were (and remain) within the process of continually seeking to learn in even greater ways the will and purpose of God.

Agape, Alan.
Good Companion Books
 
It seems to me if a Bible translation is altered to support a particular theology it is an admission that the theology is not compatible with scripture. Has anyone done a thourough deconstruction of NWT? On the internet there are enough JWs it seems to keep this as a “good” literal translation with its casting doubt on the Trinity.

Is there a good work that seriously traces the evolution of the NWT and how it has warped scripture to match its theology?

Or is it in fact a bible and the Trinity is not clearly revealed by scripture and one needs sacred tradition?

I am concerned that JW keeps thriving with doctrinal ideas against Jesus as Lord and yet it is still being discussed in terms of the Holy Bible. Doesn’t it have more in common with Islam? Being non-trinitarian but also basing itself on a corruption of exegesis from the OT and NT?

Do people who join JW realize that they are denying that Jesus is Lord and the sacrifice could not be perfect and fulfilling if He were not Who He said He was?

People go through all the effort of trying to follow God and then ignore His Son. It is sad. How can we clarify the Truth. The internet is surely garbled as it is now.
If you look at John 1:1 it will tell you different than what Christians believe. It was changed The NWT is false bible. Why people let that garbage be printed is beyond me. It is good that you find it altered as well. In a society where Christianity isn’t promoted and cults like Islam and Jehovah Witnesses are being promoted, we have to stand up for ourselves and distinguish ourselves and learn the truth. I wouldn’t even do analysis of the NWT and how much altered. I stick to my Catholic Douay-Rheims and can refute the Jehovah’s witnesses claims just fine.
 
It seems to me if a Bible translation is altered to support a particular theology it is an admission that the theology is not compatible with scripture. Has anyone done a thourough deconstruction of NWT? On the internet there are enough JWs it seems to keep this as a “good” literal translation with its casting doubt on the Trinity.

Is there a good work that seriously traces the evolution of the NWT and how it has warped scripture to match its theology?

Or is it in fact a bible and the Trinity is not clearly revealed by scripture and one needs sacred tradition?

I am concerned that JW keeps thriving with doctrinal ideas against Jesus as Lord and yet it is still being discussed in terms of the Holy Bible. Doesn’t it have more in common with Islam? Being non-trinitarian but also basing itself on a corruption of exegesis from the OT and NT?

Do people who join JW realize that they are denying that Jesus is Lord and the sacrifice could not be perfect and fulfilling if He were not Who He said He was?

People go through all the effort of trying to follow God and then ignore His Son. It is sad. How can we clarify the Truth. The internet is surely garbled as it is now.
Hi Michael,

Here is a site that you might find interesting. It gives you a little about the translators of the NWT and it shows you some of the things that they changed to go along with what they believe.
I hope you find this as interesting as I did.

bible.ca/Jw-NWT.htm

Actually, I would be interested in what you think.
Jeanne
 
It seems to me if a Bible translation is altered to support a particular theology it is an admission that the theology is not compatible with scripture.
Or, perhaps the situation is just the opposite, their “theology” was “altered” to fit a more correct translation?
Has anyone done a thourough deconstruction of NWT? On the internet there are enough JWs it seems to keep this as a “good” literal translation with its casting doubt on the Trinity.
Actually, it may interest you to know there was a scholar who had done an evaluation of a number of popular Bible translations and, after a detailed analysis, had determined that, out of them all, two stood out at the top: Jehovah’s Witnesses New World Translation and the Catholic New American Bible. You can find information about this at: Truth in Translation (especially read the reviews)
Is there a good work that seriously traces the evolution of the NWT and how it has warped scripture to match its theology?
Or, as stated above, the fact is, they adjusted their own “theology” to be more in harmony with a better, more correct translation of “scripture.” See again: Truth in Translation
Or is it in fact a bible and the Trinity is not clearly revealed by scripture and one needs sacred tradition?
Our contention is that, if the Trinity were, indeed, a true Biblical doctrine, then those who came directly after the Apostles would have surely mentioned this as their view of our Lord, Jesus Christ, along with that of his heavenly Father, God, in just such terms. But, what we find is just the opposite. In fact, it may surprise some to know that, among a number of qualified scholars, quite the opposite is presented, as in such a clearly stated admission as the following:

“The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective…”

Taken from: Richard, R. L. (b.?-d.?). Article on “Trinity, Holy” appearing within: The New Catholic Encyclopedia. Prepared by an Editorial Staff at the Catholic University of America, Washington, D. C. (New York, New York: McGraw-Hill, 1967-c1989), vol. XIV [14], pp. 299 (italics theirs). BX841 .N44 1967 / 66-022292.

The import of such a statement becomes all the more significant when we appreciate the fact that “the Apostolic Fathers” are those who were said to have lived during the same time period as the Apostles themselves; perhaps, with some having even been taught by them as well.

Therefore, if even among “the Apostolic Fathers” “there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective,” and, especially, for this teaching to not have ever been a part of the Christian “profession of faith,” that is, as expressed within any Christian ‘declaration of belief,’ that is, not until the end of the 4th century, then this would, in my view, unequivocally substantiate the fact that neither the Apostles nor any of the earliest of Christians had ever believed and/or been taught, nor, in turn, had ever sensed the need to defend any such radically new concept about God.
I am concerned that JW keeps thriving with doctrinal ideas against Jesus as Lord and yet it is still being discussed in terms of the Holy Bible. Doesn’t it have more in common with Islam? Being non-trinitarian but also basing itself on a corruption of exegesis from the OT and NT?
Well, to quote the same Catholic reference above:

"the Trinitarian dogma] is not directly and immediately the word of God.” - p. 304.

Sad to say, most are unaware that such admissions are replete throughout most all “Christian” scholarly reference sources.
Do people who join JW realize that they are denying that Jesus is Lord and the sacrifice could not be perfect and fulfilling if He were not Who He said He was?
In actuality, Jehovah’s Witnesses do, indeed, believe, “that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:11 - New American Bible), the God identified within the Catholic Jerusalem Bible as “Yahweh,” whereby, even God had clearly stated, “This is my name for all time; by this name I shall be invoked for all generations to come.” - (Exodus 3:15, Catholic Jerusalem Bible).

Therefore, even in this respect, in harmony with how Catholic Bibles discuss such issues, Jehovah’s or, Yahweh’s] Witnesses are, in actuality, keeping God’s self given name alive, and this, by continually ‘invoking’ it before the world.
People go through all the effort of trying to follow God and then ignore His Son. It is sad. How can we clarify the Truth. The internet is surely garbled as it is now.
Simply put, as most people know throughout the world over, the Christian congregation of Jehovah’s [Yahweh’s] Witnesses certainly do not ignore our Saviour and King, Christ Jesus, our Lord. Those who will tell you this are not speaking the truth. As the Bible plainly makes clear:

“For there is only one God, and there is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus.” - (1 Timothy 2:5, Catholic Jerusalem Bible, 1966).

“For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human.” - (1 Timothy 2:5, Catholic New American Bible, 1986).

“For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus.” - (1 Timothy 2:5, Catholic New American Bible, 1963).

Agape, Alan.
Good Companion Books
 
Hi Michael,

Here is a site that you might find interesting. It gives you a little about the translators of the NWT and it shows you some of the things that they changed to go along with what they believe.
I hope you find this as interesting as I did.

bible.ca/Jw-NWT.htm

Actually, I would be interested in what you think.
Jeanne
Dear JeanneH,

If you will permit, I’d like the opportunity to tell you (for what it’s worth) something of what I think regarding that link.

As you will note, the heading for their opening section is: “What leading Greek scholars say about the NWT.” Among those listed there, I would like to provide a respose to one of whom was quoted, “Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar.”

With respect to the redendering of John 1:1c within Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation as, “and the Word was a god,” Barclay is quoted there as saying, “it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.”

A bit more of the quote in context might be of interest to some here:

“The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect [Jehovah’s Witnesses] is seen in their New Testament translation. J[oh]n i1 is translated: ‘Originally the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god,’ a translation which is grammatically impossible….It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.” - The Expository Times. (Edinburgh: T. and T. Clark, v. 1-, Oct. 1889-), vol. 65, October, 1953. BS410 .E8 / 54-43327 r82.

Although, within the above, he states quite emphatically, “‘and the Word was a god,’ a translation which is grammatically impossible,” it is important to note that, some years later, in a letter written to a Mr. David Burnett, Australia, dated May 20, 1974, Barclay had apparently changed his mind on this, that is, by stating:

"You could translate, so far as the Greek goes: ‘the Word was a God.’” - Barclay, William (b.1907-d.1978), Lecturer in the University of Glasgow. Ever Yours; A Selection From the Letters of William Barclay. Rawlins, Clive L. (b.1940-d.?), Editor. (Dunbar: Labarum Publications, 1985).

In explaining this a bit further, Barclay had offered this example in another of his works:

“An illustration from English [about the Greek] will make this clear. If I say, ‘The preacher is the man,’ I use the definite article before both preacher and man, and I thereby identify the preacher with some quite definite individual man whom I have in mind. But, if I say, ‘The preacher is man,’ I have omitted the definite article before man, and what I mean is that the preacher must be classified as a man, he is in the sphere of manhood, he is a human being.” - Barclay, William (b.1907-d.1978), Lecturer in the University of Glasgow. Jesus as They Knew Him. (New York: Harper and Row, 1962), pp. 21, 22.

And yet, if we were to just put in place of ”preacher” and “man” the words “Word/Jesus” and “god,” along with a few other adjustments, consider how this very point might have otherwise read:

“An illustration from English [about the Greek] will make this clear. If I say, ‘The Word/Jesus is the god,’ I use the definite article before both Word/Jesus and god, and I thereby identify the word/Jesus with some quite definite individual god whom I have in mind [in this case, Almighty God]. But, if I say, ‘The Word/Jesus is god,’ I have omitted the definite article before god, and what I mean is that the word/Jesus must be classified as a god, he is in the sphere of godhood, he is a godlike being.”

Perhaps this is, in some part, the reason why it is little known that Barclay had also later admitted:

“It is not that Jesus is God. Time and time again the Fourth Gospel speaks of God sending Jesus into the world. Time and time again we see Jesus praying to God….Nowhere does the New Testament identify Jesus with God.” - William Barclay - A Spiritual Autobiography. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1975), pp. 49, 50. BS2351 .B28 A37 1975 / 73-76528.

Interestingly, with respect to the Greek of John 1:1c, a number of other Biblical scholars have admitted much the same as Barclay:

“…, from the point of view of grammar alone, κα θες ν λγος [from John 1:1c] could be rendered ‘the Word was a god’…” – Harris, Murray J. (b.?-d.?). Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1992), p. 60. BT216 .H37 1992 / 92-30780.

“[John 1:1c] could also be translated: ‘the Word was a god’ or ‘the Word was divine.’ Grammatical considerations alone fail to decide the question, since all three translations [including the common, “and the Word was God”] can be defended on grammatical grounds.” – Loader, William R. G. (b.1944-d.?). “The Christology of the Fourth Gospel: Structures and Issues.” vol. xxiii of: Beiträge zur Biblischen Exegese und Theologie. (Frankfurt am Main; New York; Paris: Verlag P. Lang, c1989), p. 156. BT198 .L57 1989 / 89-12453. 2nd Revised Edition (Frankfurt am Main, Germany; New York, New York: P. Lang, c1992), p. 155. BT198 .L57 1992 / 92-19502.

And, from a Catholic source:

“Grammar alone cannot prove how the predicate in this verse [John 1:1c] should be translated, whether ‘God’ or ‘a god.’” – “The Catholic Biblical Quarterly.” (Washington, D.C.: Catholic Biblical Association of America, vol. 1-, Jan. 1939-), vol. XIII [13], no. 4, October 1951. BS410 .C3 / a40-000163.

So again, instead of being “grammatically impossible,” Christendom’s Trinitarian scholars give evidence of an important agreement, that it is, indeed, quite possible to render John 1:1c as, “and the Word was a god”; and thus, this rendering is proven to not be “intellectually dishonest.”

Another useful site which also addresses many of these very same issues, as well as others which some have raised, is: Jehovah’s Witnesses United

Agape, Alan.
Good Companion Books
 
Hi Michael,

Here is a site that you might find interesting. It gives you a little about the translators of the NWT and it shows you some of the things that they changed to go along with what they believe.
I hope you find this as interesting as I did.

bible.ca/Jw-NWT.htm

Actually, I would be interested in what you think.
Jeanne
Dear JeanneH,

Just Something to Consider: Apart from what I have already stated, that is, with respect to one of the scholars they cite, you might find it also interesting to examine what these same ones have to say about Catholics:

Under their heading, “Roman Catholic Faith Examined,” they offer these analysis:

Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible?

Is The Catholic Church an Infallible interpreter of the Bible?

Overview of how Catholic faith contradicts the Bible

Therefore, if even from your own perspective you can witness them as misrepresenting the Catholic view and positions on these important matters, I cannot understand why you would then trust them to accuractly and fairly contend against Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Agape, Alan.
Good Companion Books
 
If you look at John 1:1 it will tell you different than what Christians believe. It was changed The NWT is false bible. Why people let that garbage be printed is beyond me. It is good that you find it altered as well. In a society where Christianity isn’t promoted and cults like Islam and Jehovah Witnesses are being promoted, we have to stand up for ourselves and distinguish ourselves and learn the truth. I wouldn’t even do analysis of the NWT and how much altered. I stick to my Catholic Douay-Rheims and can refute the Jehovah’s witnesses claims just fine.
With regard to the proper translation and meaning of John 1:1, the following quote might explain some of the issues with which many translators must contend:

“Here I may observe, that, to persons uninitiated in the doctrines of Christianity, this passage [John 1:1c], and other obscure passages of the present Gospel, must have appeared unintelligible; yet by the disciples of the evangelist, already acquainted with his language on such subjects, they would be easily understood. Their previous knowledge led them to the true explanation. At the present day, the readers of Scriptures have generally imbibed certain religious notions from education before they sit down to the task; and then, unconsciously, perhaps, but very naturally, they explain every difficulty in accordance with those notions. Hence it happens that men of every persuasion find the confirmation of their peculiar opinions in the sacred volumes: for, in fact, it is not the Scripture that informs them, but they that affix their own meaning to the language of Scripture.”

As taken from the footnote to John 1:1 within: Lingard, John (b.?-d.?). A New Version of The Four Gospels with Notes Critical and Explanatory, by a Catholic. (London, England: J. Booker, 1836), p. 330. BS2553 .L5 / 06-30318.

Now, when I quote Mr. Lingard, as Catholic (and, therefore, Trinitarian), it must be understood that, very likely, his intended purpose may very well have been to address the non-Trinitarian treatment of this verse during his day. Interestingly, when Lingard speaks of those “persons uninitiated in the doctrines of Christianity,” no doubt he would have in mind to include those individuals not ‘initiated’ into the teaching of the Trinity doctrine.

Therefore, by these very words, Lingard has unwittingly admitted to being guided in his own rendering of this verse (as, “the Word was God”) by the very thing he has just criticized others.

Even so, by stating, “…it is not the Scripture that informs them, but they that affix their own meaning to the language of Scripture,” as a principle, his astute observation could be fairly applied to any translator or commentator, with any level of learning – and, most certainly, not to the exclusion of Trinitarian scholars/theologians themselves.

Agape, Alan.
Good Companion Books
 
Dear JeanneH,

Just Something to Consider: Apart from what I have already stated, that is, with respect to one of the scholars they cite, you might find it also interesting to examine what these same ones have to say about Catholics:

Under their heading, “Roman Catholic Faith Examined,” they offer these analysis:

Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible?

Is The Catholic Church an Infallible interpreter of the Bible?

Overview of how Catholic faith contradicts the Bible

Therefore, if even from your own perspective you can witness them as misrepresenting the Catholic view and positions on these important matters, I cannot understand why you would then trust them to accuractly and fairly contend against Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Agape, Alan.
Good Companion Books
Hi Alan,

Interesting. I wonder what this site is all about.
I did read the article about the NWT and their translation to match what they believe. I don’t know which bible the author compared the NWT to but I did read the comparisons and I believe what the article says to be true at least with my limited knowledge. You do bring up an interesting point thought. Thanks for giving me something to think about.

I have learned a lot from the people here.

God Bless
Jeanne
 
Dear JeanneH,

If you will permit, I’d like the opportunity to tell you (for what it’s worth) something of what I think regarding that link.

As you will note, the heading for their opening section is: “What leading Greek scholars say about the NWT.” Among those listed there, I would like to provide a respose to one of whom was quoted, “Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar.”

With respect to the redendering of John 1:1c within Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation as, “and the Word was a god,” Barclay is quoted there as saying, “it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.”

A bit more of the quote in context might be of interest to some here:

“The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect [Jehovah’s Witnesses] is seen in their New Testament translation. J[oh]n i1 is translated: ‘Originally the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god,’ a translation which is grammatically impossible….It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.” - The Expository Times. (Edinburgh: T. and T. Clark, v. 1-, Oct. 1889-), vol. 65, October, 1953. BS410 .E8 / 54-43327 r82.

Although, within the above, he states quite emphatically, “‘and the Word was a god,’ a translation which is grammatically impossible,” it is important to note that, some years later, in a letter written to a Mr. David Burnett, Australia, dated May 20, 1974, Barclay had apparently changed his mind on this, that is, by stating:

"You could translate, so far as the Greek goes: ‘the Word was a God.’” - Barclay, William (b.1907-d.1978), Lecturer in the University of Glasgow. Ever Yours; A Selection From the Letters of William Barclay. Rawlins, Clive L. (b.1940-d.?), Editor. (Dunbar: Labarum Publications, 1985).

In explaining this a bit further, Barclay had offered this example in another of his works:

“An illustration from English [about the Greek] will make this clear. If I say, ‘The preacher is the man,’ I use the definite article before both preacher and man, and I thereby identify the preacher with some quite definite individual man whom I have in mind. But, if I say, ‘The preacher is man,’ I have omitted the definite article before man, and what I mean is that the preacher must be classified as a man, he is in the sphere of manhood, he is a human being.” - Barclay, William (b.1907-d.1978), Lecturer in the University of Glasgow. Jesus as They Knew Him. (New York: Harper and Row, 1962), pp. 21, 22.

And yet, if we were to just put in place of ”preacher” and “man” the words “Word/Jesus” and “god,” along with a few other adjustments, consider how this very point might have otherwise read:

“An illustration from English [about the Greek] will make this clear. If I say, ‘The Word/Jesus is the god,’ I use the definite article before both Word/Jesus and god, and I thereby identify the word/Jesus with some quite definite individual god whom I have in mind [in this case, Almighty God]. But, if I say, ‘The Word/Jesus is god,’ I have omitted the definite article before god, and what I mean is that the word/Jesus must be classified as a god, he is in the sphere of godhood, he is a godlike being.”

Perhaps this is, in some part, the reason why it is little known that Barclay had also later admitted:

“It is not that Jesus is God. Time and time again the Fourth Gospel speaks of God sending Jesus into the world. Time and time again we see Jesus praying to God….Nowhere does the New Testament identify Jesus with God.” - William Barclay - A Spiritual Autobiography. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1975), pp. 49, 50. BS2351 .B28 A37 1975 / 73-76528.

Interestingly, with respect to the Greek of John 1:1c, a number of other Biblical scholars have admitted much the same as Barclay:

“…, from the point of view of grammar alone, κα θες ν λγος [from John 1:1c] could be rendered ‘the Word was a god’…” – Harris, Murray J. (b.?-d.?). Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1992), p. 60. BT216 .H37 1992 / 92-30780.

“[John 1:1c] could also be translated: ‘the Word was a god’ or ‘the Word was divine.’ Grammatical considerations alone fail to decide the question, since all three translations [including the common, “and the Word was God”] can be defended on grammatical grounds.” – Loader, William R. G. (b.1944-d.?). “The Christology of the Fourth Gospel: Structures and Issues.” vol. xxiii of: Beiträge zur Biblischen Exegese und Theologie. (Frankfurt am Main; New York; Paris: Verlag P. Lang, c1989), p. 156. BT198 .L57 1989 / 89-12453. 2nd Revised Edition (Frankfurt am Main, Germany; New York, New York: P. Lang, c1992), p. 155. BT198 .L57 1992 / 92-19502.

And, from a Catholic source:

“Grammar alone cannot prove how the predicate in this verse [John 1:1c] should be translated, whether ‘God’ or ‘a god.’” – “The Catholic Biblical Quarterly.” (Washington, D.C.: Catholic Biblical Association of America, vol. 1-, Jan. 1939-), vol. XIII [13], no. 4, October 1951. BS410 .C3 / a40-000163.

So again, instead of being “grammatically impossible,” Christendom’s Trinitarian scholars give evidence of an important agreement, that it is, indeed, quite possible to render John 1:1c as, “and the Word was a god”; and thus, this rendering is proven to not be “intellectually dishonest.”

Another useful site which also addresses many of these very same issues, as well as others which some have raised, is: Jehovah’s Witnesses United

Agape, Alan.
Good Companion Books
Code:
Hi Alan,

I have heard every argument about “a god” from a JW . She and I actually study together. I have learned a great deal about my own Catholicism from her.

The NWT is the only contemporary bible that I know of that translates John1.1 as “a god”. I guess it is all in each religions interpretation of scriptures as to how they read John 1.1. Actually I think that the JW"s protest too much that Jesus is not God. Just as you have your scholars saying your rendition of John 1.1 is the right one there are just as many scholars that say other wise.

In reading Catholic and even Protestant bibles one knows that Jesus is part of the Trinity and therefore God.

I don’t know too much about Mr. Barkley but he not being Catholic doesn’t have the guidance of the Magisterium .
God Bless
Jeanne
 
Dear JeanneH,

If you will permit, I’d like the opportunity to tell you (for what it’s worth) something of what I think regarding that link.

As you will note, the heading for their opening section is: “What leading Greek scholars say about the NWT.” Among those listed there, I would like to provide a respose to one of whom was quoted, “Dr. William Barclay, a leading Greek scholar.”

With respect to the redendering of John 1:1c within Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation as, “and the Word was a god,” Barclay is quoted there as saying, “it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.”

A bit more of the quote in context might be of interest to some here:

“The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect [Jehovah’s Witnesses] is seen in their New Testament translation. J[oh]n i1 is translated: ‘Originally the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god,’ a translation which is grammatically impossible….It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.” - The Expository Times. (Edinburgh: T. and T. Clark, v. 1-, Oct. 1889-), vol. 65, October, 1953. BS410 .E8 / 54-43327 r82.

Although, within the above, he states quite emphatically, “‘and the Word was a god,’ a translation which is grammatically impossible,” it is important to note that, some years later, in a letter written to a Mr. David Burnett, Australia, dated May 20, 1974, Barclay had apparently changed his mind on this, that is, by stating:

"You could translate, so far as the Greek goes: ‘the Word was a God.’” - Barclay, William (b.1907-d.1978), Lecturer in the University of Glasgow. Ever Yours; A Selection From the Letters of William Barclay. Rawlins, Clive L. (b.1940-d.?), Editor. (Dunbar: Labarum Publications, 1985).

In explaining this a bit further, Barclay had offered this example in another of his works:

“An illustration from English [about the Greek] will make this clear. If I say, ‘The preacher is the man,’ I use the definite article before both preacher and man, and I thereby identify the preacher with some quite definite individual man whom I have in mind. But, if I say, ‘The preacher is man,’ I have omitted the definite article before man, and what I mean is that the preacher must be classified as a man, he is in the sphere of manhood, he is a human being.” - Barclay, William (b.1907-d.1978), Lecturer in the University of Glasgow. Jesus as They Knew Him. (New York: Harper and Row, 1962), pp. 21, 22.

And yet, if we were to just put in place of ”preacher” and “man” the words “Word/Jesus” and “god,” along with a few other adjustments, consider how this very point might have otherwise read:

“An illustration from English [about the Greek] will make this clear. If I say, ‘The Word/Jesus is the god,’ I use the definite article before both Word/Jesus and god, and I thereby identify the word/Jesus with some quite definite individual god whom I have in mind [in this case, Almighty God]. But, if I say, ‘The Word/Jesus is god,’ I have omitted the definite article before god, and what I mean is that the word/Jesus must be classified as a god, he is in the sphere of godhood, he is a godlike being.”

Perhaps this is, in some part, the reason why it is little known that Barclay had also later admitted:

“It is not that Jesus is God. Time and time again the Fourth Gospel speaks of God sending Jesus into the world. Time and time again we see Jesus praying to God….Nowhere does the New Testament identify Jesus with God.” - William Barclay - A Spiritual Autobiography. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1975), pp. 49, 50. BS2351 .B28 A37 1975 / 73-76528.

Interestingly, with respect to the Greek of John 1:1c, a number of other Biblical scholars have admitted much the same as Barclay:

“…, from the point of view of grammar alone, κα θες ν λγος [from John 1:1c] could be rendered ‘the Word was a god’…” – Harris, Murray J. (b.?-d.?). Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus. (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1992), p. 60. BT216 .H37 1992 / 92-30780.

“[John 1:1c] could also be translated: ‘the Word was a god’ or ‘the Word was divine.’ Grammatical considerations alone fail to decide the question, since all three translations [including the common, “and the Word was God”] can be defended on grammatical grounds.” – Loader, William R. G. (b.1944-d.?). “The Christology of the Fourth Gospel: Structures and Issues.” vol. xxiii of: Beiträge zur Biblischen Exegese und Theologie. (Frankfurt am Main; New York; Paris: Verlag P. Lang, c1989), p. 156. BT198 .L57 1989 / 89-12453. 2nd Revised Edition (Frankfurt am Main, Germany; New York, New York: P. Lang, c1992), p. 155. BT198 .L57 1992 / 92-19502.

And, from a Catholic source:

“Grammar alone cannot prove how the predicate in this verse [John 1:1c] should be translated, whether ‘God’ or ‘a god.’” – “The Catholic Biblical Quarterly.” (Washington, D.C.: Catholic Biblical Association of America, vol. 1-, Jan. 1939-), vol. XIII [13], no. 4, October 1951. BS410 .C3 / a40-000163.

So again, instead of being “grammatically impossible,” Christendom’s Trinitarian scholars give evidence of an important agreement, that it is, indeed, quite possible to render John 1:1c as, “and the Word was a god”; and thus, this rendering is proven to not be “intellectually dishonest.”

Another useful site which also addresses many of these very same issues, as well as others which some have raised, is: Jehovah’s Witnesses United

Agape, Alan.
Good Companion Books
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Sorry this is all pretty standard JW stuff. almost every one of their websites reads the same or very close to the same. it’s almost as if someone is afraid to have an original thought.I remember looking up the NWT on different JW websites blogs. Always the same. It’s a little scary to say the least.
 
Sorry this is all pretty standard JW stuff. almost every one of their websites reads the same or very close to the same. it’s almost as if someone is afraid to have an original thought.I remember looking up the NWT on different JW websites blogs. Always the same. It’s a little scary to say the least.
The JW’s are not permitted to have original thoughts. If they do they are told to readjust their thinking. Mores the pity.

I stay away from their blogs. I do read some of the conversion stories of ex JW’s. I find them interesting and lucky the ones who finally recognize the truth.

God Bless
Jeanne
 
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