New York Mosque Controversy Echoes Anti-Catholicism of Another Era [CN-USA]
- Status
E
ERose
Guest
What a ridiculus assumption to make. This not about dicrimination. Its about what is right thing to do. No body has claimed they do not have the right to build a mosque and worship as they please. Just not at ground zero.
Let us not forget that it was Islamic men who destroyed those towers and slaughtered those people. To be quite honest, I wouldn’t have a problem with them building it there if there was any outcry heard from Muslims after the attack. Unfortunely there wasn’t any. In my opinion their silence was deafening.
If any group is being decriminated against it is our Orthodox brothers who turned down to rebuid their church that was destroyed on 9-11. I hear no outcry from the left supporting their cause. Do you?
Let us not forget that it was Islamic men who destroyed those towers and slaughtered those people. To be quite honest, I wouldn’t have a problem with them building it there if there was any outcry heard from Muslims after the attack. Unfortunely there wasn’t any. In my opinion their silence was deafening.
If any group is being decriminated against it is our Orthodox brothers who turned down to rebuid their church that was destroyed on 9-11. I hear no outcry from the left supporting their cause. Do you?
M
Major_Tom
Guest
It’s not at Groound Zero. It’s a block and a half away.
If that is too close, please clarify for us what the appropriate distance is. Quarter mile? Half mile? Next zip code?
M
Major_Tom
Guest
Have you looked? Start with the search engine www.altavista.com. I typed in “muslims against 9/11”… first offering took me to www.reformislam.org, a group that aims to:
“to educate Muslims about dangers presented by Islamic religious texts and why Islam must be reformed.
to educate non-Muslims about the differences between moderate Muslims and Islamists (a.k.a. Islamic Religious Fanatics, Radical Muslims, Muslim Fundamentalists, Islamic Extremists or Islamofascists) .
to educate both Muslims and non-Muslims alike that Moderate Muslims are also targets of Islamic Terror.”
Third website shown: “Muslims condemn terrorist attacks”. Fourth website: “Muslims against terrorism”…
D
DaveBj
Guest
Appropriate distance? How about Asia?
Speaking seriously, it needs to be far enough away that people cannot see Ground Zero from the community center, and that people cannot see the community center from Ground Zero.
And as ERose correctly pointed out, the comparison with anti-Catholicism is ridiculous. Catholic immigrants did not commit acts of terrorism against non-Catholics, as the Muslim extremists have committed against non-Muslim Americans (yes, I know that Muslims and non-Americans died, but the acts themselves were committed against Americans).
DaveBj
E
ERose
Guest
Part of one of the planes (landing gear) crashed through the roof of that building. So it is part of ground zero.
Tell me why that haven’t allowed the Orthodoxes to REBUILD their church? Can you explain that one for me?
E
ERose
Guest
Perhaps I mis-spoke when I said no condemnation. I should have said very little from the leaders of the Islamic community here in the US and not much from the leaders abroad. If I remember correctly, in many Islamic countries there was dancing in the streets.
If the muslims in this country want to build bridges to heal the damage caused by their fellow muslims who are terrorist and show that these acts are to be condemned then they need to be sensitive to those who lost family and friends in that attack.
Let them find another place to build their mosque. Not just on ground zero. Because what they are doing right now is damaging their standing in this country.
Most people in this country don’t blame the muslims that are here living and worshipping peacefully in our country. They blame the monsters that use Islam as an excuse for killing 3000 people. That is the reason why you haven’t seen an outcry in this country to round up the muslims like we did the Japanese in WWII.
If the muslims continue on this course there will be damage done in our communities.
M
Major_Tom
Guest
The whole “it’s ground zero, it’s hallowed ground” argument… well, I’m sorry, I don’t think it’s relevant here. If someone truly wants to make this “hallowed ground”, fine, no argument from me. That makes me think of the Vietnam Memorial in Washington, nothing but grass surrounding the actually “monument”, which is extremely moving. If that is the model that we’re talking about here, fine.
But in this case, a dense urban site, you’re going to have a gym, a Tim Horton’s, a Starbucks, a deli, a store that sells cell phones, etc… all of that stuff will be surrounding Ground Zero. Sorry, it’s not hallowed ground it there’s a Starbucks there! To allow all of that other stuff, and then say, sorry, no mosque… I don’t like that.
I can’t, I’m honestly not familiar with that story. I’ll try googling it; can you post an article or website that explains it…?
M
Major_Tom
Guest
Thanks for the clarification. I’ve heard a similar “well I haven’t heard them apologize” tone from some people, and I get a little snippy, because it’s usually from people who aren’t even trying…!
All I can say is, like Christianity, Islam is composed of a vast number of people, with differing opinions of what it means to be reasonable, sensitive, etc. Same applies to my faith. I don’t think anyone ecan expect all Muslims to act out their sensitivity in the exact same way. Maybe these people are a little on the pushy side… I don’t know them, so I can’t really answer. Regardless, laws are needed to address this kind of thing, to avoid the arbitrariness of “welllll, I dunno. It doesn’t feel right. Maybe later”.
Fair enough. Not trying to be pushy, but who exactly would that be? There is no equivalent to the Pope in Islam… was there a particular person/leader you were hoping for?
Again, to a degree, sensitivity is in the eye of the beholder. The area in question is fairly run down, the building in question is abandoned, it’s not in sight of Ground Zero, tourists rarely walk that way, and one can easily get to Ground Zero without walking past it.
E
Ender
Guest
CNS:
Ender
Whatever may be true of some individual’s opposition to the mosque, what is not true is the characterization that all opposition - or even the opposition in general - *“is but the latest manifestation of a historic cycle of distrust of immigrants – and their faith.” *This is nothing more than the arrogant sanctimony of inbred thinking. People like this need to get out more.
Ender
B
Barbkw
Guest
Muslims already have 100 mosques inside New York City.
Yes, the Sufi Iman and his Sufi coalition, have the zoning law right to build at that location.
However, it is an insensitive religious statement for their political/religious organization to make, building the mosque at that location.
P.S. Pay close attention to the “hate speak” rhetoric that the Imam’s wife is attempting to present to the public. In her public opinion, she said any one who disapproves of the building of the mosque at that location where “haters”.
Yes, the Sufi Iman and his Sufi coalition, have the zoning law right to build at that location.
However, it is an insensitive religious statement for their political/religious organization to make, building the mosque at that location.
P.S. Pay close attention to the “hate speak” rhetoric that the Imam’s wife is attempting to present to the public. In her public opinion, she said any one who disapproves of the building of the mosque at that location where “haters”.
M
Major_Tom
Guest
View attachment 8567
Then you’ve got nothing to worry about… Sorry the image is a little small, but it shows pretty clearly that you can’t see one from the other.
D
DaveBj
Guest
Sorry, MT, but on one of the television news programs I saw a view of the building in question, and then the cameraman turned and there was a clear view of Ground Zero and the hole in the sky where the twin towers used to stand. You don’t get the proper perspective from satellite photography.
DaveBj
M
Major_Tom
Guest
May I then ask for clarification of the appropriate standard, then? If you stand at any part of the WTC site, I shouldn’t see ANY part of the mosque? What if I stand on the seventh floor and I can see two windows of the mosque? Would that ruin the whole deal?
Would it ruin a moment of contemplation at the WTC site to look up at the American flag, full of wrenching emotion… and then realize that, amid the cacophony of buildings in the skyline, nestled between the Golden Arches of McDonald’s and a billboard for Modell’s Sporting Goods, one of those grey buildings housed… egad… a mosque… Sorry, I’m trying to contain the sarcasm…! I don’t get it.
D
DaveBj
Guest
It wasn’t representatives of the McDonald’s that flew airliners into the twin towers and the Pentagon. It wasn’t representatives of Modell’s Sporting Goods that flew airliners into the twin towers and the Pentagon. It was co-religionists of those trying to build the community center that flew the airliners into the twin towers and the Pentagon. I know they’re Sufis, from the mystical side of that religion, but they’re still part of that religion, and there’s nothing to guarantee that people from the anti-American side of that religion will not use that facility for nefarious purposes.
I can tell that you don’t get it, and I’m trying to say this as nicely as I can, but if you don’t get it, than you just don’t get it. The last eight years of my professional life in a certain agency of the U.S. government I retrained into the Arabic language and was a Middle East analyst. That involved spending a lot of time studying, working and living (7 1/2 months in the Middle East) with Arabs (Muslim and Christian) and Muslims (Arab and non-Arab). What I learned from all that experience is that there is precious little in common between the Muslim religion and the American way of life, as first codified in the U.S. Constitution. Thousands of people learned that the hard way on 9/11/01. It is obvious that others who live in this country have yet to learn that lesson. It is my prayer, Major Tom, that you do not have to learn it as harshly as those thousands did.
DaveBj
E
ERose
Guest
The clarification is this. Is it on ground zero and the answer is yes it is. Ground zero is the area that was impacted by either the planes that were used or the buildings that collapsed directly or indirectly due to the planes hitting the towers. Part of the plane went through the roof of this building and as such it is part of ground zero.
The question I have for you is do you agree or disagree with the article that this thread is about. I say I disagree.
A
Aboveallbereal
Guest
Intellectual honesty demands that we refuse to credit the oxymoronic notion of “moderate Islam.”
Muhammad is a false prophet who preached aggressive violence, had sex with in laws, engaged in paedophile sex and taught his benighted followers to kill for Allah. He was a self justifying minor warlord whose so called religion has plagued christians and Christendom and every other neighbouring culture for 14 centuries. Islam is an excrescence whose primary sufferers are the unfortunates who are born into its hideous embrace.
It may be a necessary bow to politesse to brush over the above facts when dealing with single and often honourable muslims who as I say are the primary sufferers from the pathology and who I feel sure Christ in His infinite goodness regards with His infinite charity but it is also necessary to point out reality at times in in places like this.
Muhammad is a false prophet who preached aggressive violence, had sex with in laws, engaged in paedophile sex and taught his benighted followers to kill for Allah. He was a self justifying minor warlord whose so called religion has plagued christians and Christendom and every other neighbouring culture for 14 centuries. Islam is an excrescence whose primary sufferers are the unfortunates who are born into its hideous embrace.
It may be a necessary bow to politesse to brush over the above facts when dealing with single and often honourable muslims who as I say are the primary sufferers from the pathology and who I feel sure Christ in His infinite goodness regards with His infinite charity but it is also necessary to point out reality at times in in places like this.
A
Antegin
Guest
E-Rose said: Let us not forget that it was Islamic men who destroyed those towers and slaughtered those people. To be quite honest, I wouldn’t have a problem with them building it there if there was any outcry heard from Muslims after the attack. Unfortunely there wasn’t any. In my opinion their silence was deafening.
By that reasoning, every single Catholic is responsible for the murder of President Lincoln because it was the Catholic Mudd Family and other Catholic southern Marylanders and Virginians that aided and abetted his escape and may have even been co-conspirators. How insensitive of us to have a Washington ArchDiocese so close to that sacred area where President Lincoln gave his life. We have so many churches, we can just have our Basilica of the Immaculate Conception somewhere in the boondocks, but not near our ground zero where Lincolns blood was shed-by Catholics.
By that reasoning, every single Catholic is responsible for the murder of President Lincoln because it was the Catholic Mudd Family and other Catholic southern Marylanders and Virginians that aided and abetted his escape and may have even been co-conspirators. How insensitive of us to have a Washington ArchDiocese so close to that sacred area where President Lincoln gave his life. We have so many churches, we can just have our Basilica of the Immaculate Conception somewhere in the boondocks, but not near our ground zero where Lincolns blood was shed-by Catholics.
Well if you impugne all Muslims with the action of the terrorists just because the terrorist happened to be Muslim, and there is a total lack of code violations on which to base a refusal to permit, the Imam’s wife is right.
D
DaveBj
Guest
This is another apples-and-oranges comparison. The Mudd/Booth conspiracy was not one of Catholics against Protestants; it was one of Southerners against Northerners. By contrast, the 9/11 conspiracy was one of Muslims against the non-Muslim west.E-Rose said: Let us not forget that it was Islamic men who destroyed those towers and slaughtered those people. To be quite honest, I wouldn’t have a problem with them building it there if there was any outcry heard from Muslims after the attack. Unfortunely there wasn’t any. In my opinion their silence was deafening.
By that reasoning, every single Catholic is responsible for the murder of President Lincoln because it was the Catholic Mudd Family and other Catholic southern Marylanders and Virginians that aided and abetted his escape and may have even been co-conspirators. How insensitive of us to have a Washington ArchDiocese so close to that sacred area where President Lincoln gave his life. We have so many churches, we can just have our Basilica of the Immaculate Conception somewhere in the boondocks, but not near our ground zero where Lincolns blood was shed-by Catholics.
Well if you impugne all Muslims with the action of the terrorists just because the terrorist happened to be Muslim, and there is a total lack of code violations on which to base a refusal to permit, the Imam’s wife is right.
DaveBj
A
Antegin
Guest
It is exactly on point but with the added benefit of historical hindsight. After the Lincoln assassination, Catholics in the DC area were subject to brutal discrimination and denial of due process. The oral tradition in my family who has lived here since the 1800s has numerous stories about those days. History on the other hand only remembers the narcissistic Booth who wanted to become famous and picked shooting Lincoln as the way to do it.
The attack on 9/1/1 was carried out by Al Qiada. These were gorilla warriors Ronald Reagan’s administration trained and armed to make life miserable for the USSR. After the Iran Contra scandle, he abandoned them. Why not, communism was imploding at the time.
John Paul the Great warned the world about this. He said that evil would eventually destroy itself but that if the good people in the world failed to fill that void with Charity, an even greater evil would fill that void. On 9/1/1 his prophecy came true.
It has been 9 years since the attack. The time has come to stop punishing muslims for 9/1/1. It is time for us to stop the destruction and look for the Christian message we are being called to live here.
- Status