Newbie with a question

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tjbj

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Hello,
This is my first time posting. I posted to another forum…not sure where is the best place to ask this quiestion. :confused: I found this site about a week ago. I really enjoy the available information that is found. I’ve learned so much. Like some Catholics, I’ve never been able to defend my faith but I’m trying hard to become more knowledgeable.
I have a question that I have not been able to find an answer to. My husband goes to a Church of Christ. I am Catholic. We are fairly accepting of each others beliefs (me more than him). About twice a year he throws the typical Protestant questions at me. What I want to be able to defend is when he throws out :

1Corinth. 14: 33-35 “*As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak but must be in submission as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in church.” *

Any help with this question would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
TJBJ
 
Wow! I am completely shocked that you as a Catholic are married to a member of the Church of Christ. My in-laws are CofC and even the most tolerant and open-minded would not likely have approved of such a union.

What point is it exactly that your husband is trying to make by quoting that particular scripture?

Peace and joy,
Andi
 
I didn’t think being married to C of C was that much different then marrying a Bapt. or other Protest.

He’s been to Mass with me for Extended family occasions, ie. Weddings, Funerals, Every Mother’s Day 🙂 and he has seen the female Lecturers on the Altar reading the weekly readings, so this is where he gets his reason for this particular verse.
(1 Corint. 14:33-35)

Thanks again,
TJBJ :o
 
26
9 So what is to be done, brothers? When you assemble, one has a psalm, another an instruction, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Everything should be done for building up.
27
If anyone speaks in a tongue, let it be two or at most three, and each in turn, and one should interpret.
28
But if there is no interpreter, the person should keep silent in the church and speak to himself and to God.
29
Two or three prophets should speak, and the others discern.
30
But if a revelation is given to another person sitting there, the first one should be silent.
31
For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged.
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Indeed, the spirits of prophets are under the prophets’ control,
33
since he is not the God of disorder but of peace. As in all the churches of the holy ones, 10
34
women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
35
But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church.
36
Did the word of God go forth from you? Or has it come to you alone?
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If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or a spiritual person, he should recognize that what I am writing to you is a commandment of the Lord.
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If anyone does not acknowledge this, he is not acknowledged.
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So, (my) brothers, strive eagerly to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues,
40
but everything must be done properly and in order.

according to part of this scripture, he shouldn’t be speaking either. I would look into history a bit and see what rights women had. I think this verse is more about following the rules of etiquette. In Corinth at that time, I would guess it was improper for women to speak in any public place.
 
The previous poster is right - you should explore the historical background. I have heard/read somewhere an explanation in historical context of this passage of scripture before. As I recall, and it is only my faulty memory speaking, Corinth had a number of women who were being disruptive that were causing problems for the church. I believe this situation is what Paul is addressing.

If you look earlier in the letter, in v. 11:5, he mentions situations in which women DO speak in church, so I find it hard to believe that he was setting a hard and fast rule of silence for women for the rest of time.

Peace and joy!
 
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tjbj:
Hello,
This is my first time posting. I posted to another forum…not sure where is the best place to ask this quiestion. :confused: I found this site about a week ago. I really enjoy the available information that is found. I’ve learned so much. Like some Catholics, I’ve never been able to defend my faith but I’m trying hard to become more knowledgeable.
I have a question that I have not been able to find an answer to. My husband goes to a Church of Christ. I am Catholic. We are fairly accepting of each others beliefs (me more than him). About twice a year he throws the typical Protestant questions at me. What I want to be able to defend is when he throws out :

1Corinth. 14: 33-35 “*As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak but must be in submission as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in church.” *

Any help with this question would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
TJBJ
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I studied with a Messianic Rabbi for two years and he said that this was directed to people who were in synagogues. There the women were separated from the men by a cloth partition. The men were the ones who the service was actually designed for. The women were to be quiet but sometimes got to talking etc. and made a distraction to the men who were trying to learn.

Perhaps your husband should examine his church to see if it has the required cloth partition with all the women sitting behind it. If not, than you can suggest his church is NOT following the instructions of the very earliest church. :tsktsk: (Remember they were still meeting in synagogues at that time or in homes, since there were no “churches.”)
 
Hey Newbie, welcome to CAF. The church actually does not allow women to read the Gospel or preach the homily. This must be an ordained man. This is not necessarily a direct result of the Cor. passage but rather Apostolic Tradition.

You might ask your husband if women must wear something over their heads too at church. Ask him the last time he plucked out his eye when looking at another woman. The bible is not as easy to interpret as your husband is leading on.

I think the key phrase in this passage is “it is even in the law”. Does that mean the civil law? Maybe Paul is also following the laws of the land which may only apply to the Corinthians.
 
You have some good information on the specific verses.

I have a question for you. Did you get married in the Catholic Church? I ask because I would be tremendously surprised that your husband agreed to raise any children Catholic. Do you have any kids?

Part of the reason he is citing those verses is because Scripture as he interprets it says that women should be silent, and ask their husbands for explanations. In other words, you should not be explaining any Scripture to him but asking him for instruction. If you both disagree on what Scripture means, he is the one who is right since he is the spiritual head of the household. If you have been trying to explain and convince him the Catholic Church is right, he has been equally and gently trying to show you the “error” of your thinking without trying to cause too much discord in your marriage.

I suggest, that both get to know a strong Catholic Christian MAN in your Catholic Church. One that is good in Apologetics and strong in Scripture. That way any explanation of the Catholic faith would be coming from a man, instead of you since you should be getting the instruction from your husband, and not giving it.

God Bless,
Maria
 
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alsligh:
Wow! I am completely shocked that you as a Catholic are married to a member of the Church of Christ. My in-laws are CofC and even the most tolerant and open-minded would not likely have approved of such a union.

What point is it exactly that your husband is trying to make by quoting that particular scripture?

Peace and joy,
Andi
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Why are you shocked? If they love each other, what difference does it make? Sure they may have to come to some sort of agreement on their belief differences (agree to disagree), but other than that, I don’t see any problem.
 
I suggest, that both get to know a strong Catholic Christian MAN in your Catholic Church. One that is good in Apologetics and strong in Scripture. That way any explanation of the Catholic faith would be coming from a man, instead of you since you should be getting the instruction from your husband, and not giving it.
Click to expand...
God Bless,
Maria
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This is completely unnecessary for the reason you cited here. She does not have to have her husband be the “spiritual leader” over her–that is a Protestant construct cobbled from their own interpretation of the Bible (as much as her husband’s challenge about women speaking up at church) and not a Catholic position.

The only reason they might want to have a good, solid Catholic man talk to the husband is because he may relate better to another man than to his own wife. That’s often true in any case, no matter if the husband is Catholic or not, but it’s certainly not something they need to do in order for the wife to know her so-called “proper place.”
 
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Della:
This is completely unnecessary for the reason you cited here. She does not have to have her husband be the “spiritual leader” over her–that is a Protestant construct cobbled from their own interpretation of the Bible (as much as her husband’s challenge about women speaking up at church) and not a Catholic position.

The only reason they might want to have a good, solid Catholic man talk to the husband is because he may relate better to another man than to his own wife. That’s often true in any case, no matter if the husband is Catholic or not, but it’s certainly not something they need to do in order for the wife to know her so-called “proper place.”
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It doesn’t matter if his interpretation is wrong. It is what he believes. And her, a woman, trying to change that opinion will be of little value.

It really doesn’t matter if it is a Catholic position. It is his position. As such, the only way to reach him is if you start from his position and no woman has the right to instruct him in his Biblical opinions.

It is about reaching him with the truth of the Catholic Church. A man who has the apparent beliefs he does, will not be convinced by his wife, since in his view, a wife is supposed to recieve instruction from her husband, not the other way around.

God Bless,
Maria
 
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MariaG:
It doesn’t matter if his interpretation is wrong. It is what he believes. And her, a woman, trying to change that opinion will be of little value.

It really doesn’t matter if it is a Catholic position. It is his position. As such, the only way to reach him is if you start from his position and no woman has the right to instruct him in his Biblical opinions.

It is about reaching him with the truth of the Catholic Church. A man who has the apparent beliefs he does, will not be convinced by his wife, since in his view, a wife is supposed to recieve instruction from her husband, not the other way around.

God Bless,
Maria
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If this is all you are advocating, then I agree. :tiphat:
 
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MariaG:
It is about reaching him with the truth of the Catholic Church. A man who has the apparent beliefs he does, will not be convinced by his wife, since in his view, a wife is supposed to recieve instruction from her husband, not the other way around.

God Bless,
Maria
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You don’t give much credit to the intelligence of your own gender do you?
 
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mikew262:
You don’t give much credit to the intelligence of your own gender do you?
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I give much credit to my own gender. I just know from experience that if a man has the beliefs that her husband does that nothing a woman can say will be given much credence. A woman could give the most articulate and well reasoned response to a person who thinks like this and it will be dismissed without even really listening to it.

You apparently have not been a woman who has tried to converse intelligently with that kind of person and seem to be as dismissive of my intelligence in this matter as they would be.
 
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MariaG:
I give much credit to my own gender. I just know from experience that if a man has the beliefs that her husband does that nothing a woman can say will be given much credence. A woman could give the most articulate and well reasoned response to a person who thinks like this and it will be dismissed without even really listening to it.

You apparently have not been a woman who has tried to converse intelligently with that kind of person and are as dismissive of my intelligence in this matter as they would be.
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My bad. I misread your post initially. I reread it and understood your point, and deleted my post.
 
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MariaG:
You have some good information on the specific verses.

I have a question for you. Did you get married in the Catholic Church? I ask because I would be tremendously surprised that your husband agreed to raise any children Catholic. Do you have any kids?

Part of the reason he is citing those verses is because Scripture as he interprets it says that women should be silent, and ask their husbands for explanations. In other words, you should not be explaining any Scripture to him but asking him for instruction. If you both disagree on what Scripture means, he is the one who is right since he is the spiritual head of the household. If you have been trying to explain and convince him the Catholic Church is right, he has been equally and gently trying to show you the “error” of your thinking without trying to cause too much discord in your marriage.

I suggest, that both get to know a strong Catholic Christian MAN in your Catholic Church. One that is good in Apologetics and strong in Scripture. That way any explanation of the Catholic faith would be coming from a man, instead of you since you should be getting the instruction from your husband, and not giving it.

God Bless,
Maria
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Yes, we did get married in the Catholic church by a Priest. We did not however have a full mass. When child #1 was born, I was not active in church so he took child to church with him. When child #2 was born, I was back in church and I took #2 with me. This bothers him tremendously but he does not force a change. We still continue this every sunday. #1 with him and #2 with me.
I do agree with you that he would probably take it better from a man. Unfortunately I have no male friend that is extremely knowledgeable in our faith to explain things to my husband. My husband WANTS me to learn about my faith. It has been irritating to him that I (cradle Catholic) follow my faith with no deep knowledge. This is why I’m here on the computer. I want to learn.

Thanks to you and to everyone for your help on this question.

Bless you all,
TJBJ
 
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