Newly Engaged! NFP Recommendations?

[Castello]

If the posts here represent the average Catholic today, we have huge problems with marriage prep (every couple is not ready to accept children yet somehow ready to marry) and there is an epidemic that is sweeping Catholic women (they all have some grave physical reason to avoid pregnancy). What a diabolical attack on our families.

Starting a novena to repair and heal Catholics so we can again accept children in marriage!

 

[Rita77]

If the posts here represent the average Catholic today, we have huge problems with marriage prep (every couple is not ready to accept children yet somehow ready to marry) and there is an epidemic that is sweeping Catholic women (they all have some grave physical reason to avoid pregnancy). What a diabolical attack on our families.

Starting a novena to repair and heal Catholics so we can again accept children in marriage!

thanks we need that novena. we all need to pray. Only 2% of Catholics use NFP(is the new way right or wrong post 1930 way of accepting children) or leave it up to God so 98% use contraception! The new big family is 5 or so. I learned NFP and have four under the age of 5 NFP hasn’t done much better than nothing at all but we are rare my husband and I are very old fashion. We do have serious reason but I guess God has a more serious reason to keep sending us more. We use nfp and are open to life nfp is just knowledge. Even with modern science nfp is still harder and less effective than contraception. That’s why most can’t trust it or God. the “epidemic that is sweeping Catholic women” today is NOT new it started during the sexual revolution 1960’s most Catholics rejected Pope Paul VI Humanae Vitae in 1969 there has always been forms of contraception in human history but not until the 20th century was it critiqued into a reliable methods. We live in a different world than pre 1930 pre feminist movement, pre sexual revolution. Along the way lost a lot of faithfulness to teachings and the knowledge of breastfeeding to space babies too. I wonder if pre 1930 Catholics would consider most of us still even Catholic? Where is the veils, long dresses, reverence, and faithfulness to Catholic teachings, the big families? Its mostly gone and truly faithfully Catholic’s are a very very small part of the population even among so called Catholics. I ran into a fellow Catholic mom of two the other day that had never hear of NFP and didn’t know the Catholic church taught against contraception she never heard it!!! The majority isn’t Catholic anymore they just go to mass and don’t know that picking and choosing what teachings to following makes them more protestant than Catholic, that’s if they even hear the teachings our priest don’t preach fire and brimstone anymore like in the old days. We have a long ways to go to become faithful Catholics again the sexual revolution did a lot of damage. Feminism has affective us all.

 

[SummerSmiles]

If the posts here represent the average Catholic today, we have huge problems with marriage prep (every couple is not ready to accept children yet somehow ready to marry) and there is an epidemic that is sweeping Catholic women (they all have some grave physical reason to avoid pregnancy). What a diabolical attack on our families.

Starting a novena to repair and heal Catholics so we can again accept children in marriage!

That is a wonderful idea, I hope that your novena will be very successful.

 

[pentecostbaby]

We used Sympto-Thermal Method to avoid for about two years before our marriage. My cycle was/is incredibly regular, so by avoiding carefully pre-peak we were genreally able to get away with using temperature though I don’t recommend it if you are seriously no-way-can-I-have-a-baby avoiding.

We used STM to conceive both our sons (one due any day!). Both were intentional.

I am very lucky in that I have several things really going for me, which make NFP easier than for many:

• my cycles are incredibly regular. Even while doing what CCL calls ‘ecologically breastfeeding’, I returned to normal three months post-partum, with regular 28-day cycling at 4-5 months.
• my husband is very supportive - we are in this together, and in the beginning, he didn’t really understand why contraception was bad. God changed his heart and I am very, very grateful for that.
• I have a lot of friends who use NFP, and we can talk about it. It’s invaluable to have Catholics friends, IRL, who you can ask, “Hey, my mucus did this, and my temperature did this. What do you think?” It really helps to have someone to discuss the frustrations of abstinence with, too! I really believe that God never intended us to do this isolation, but with the support and love of a community.

NFP WORKS. If you have trouble with it, seek help immediately - try another method, another teacher. If you don’t have clear fertile or infertile signs, seek medical help right away. You can do this, with God’s help .

Oh, and NO ONE has the right to tell you that you shouldn’t be using NFP.

 

[Rence]

I ran into a fellow Catholic mom of two the other day that had never hear of NFP and didn’t know the Catholic church taught against contraception she never heard it!!!

How did you get into a convesation bout NFP and contraception with someone you just met? How did that conversation start? How did it end?

 

[Dan_Daly]

Practicing NFP is neither a “dangerous act” nor morally wrong. The OP did not ask which method of contraception to use, she was wondering about NFP. The decision of whether to use NFP or not cannot be made by anyone but the couple themselves, prayerfully of course. And no, whatever reasons they have for it are certainly not anyone else’s business.

It’s really inappropriate to come on this forum and tell people who are living according to the church rules (NFP, organ donation, women working, whatever) and preach your own code of morality which is not based upon church teaching. NFP is a moral choice, depending on the couple’s circumstances, and the only judge of whether it is being used morally is God.

I agree. It would be really inappropriate for someone to tell people to live by a code of morality which is not based on Church teaching.

That’s exactly why, my stances on NFP, organ donation, women working, etc are all based in Church teaching. It’s also why I keep trying to improve my knowledge of what the Church teaches and conform myself to it, because I also agree with you that I am far from infallible.

Use of NFP to attempt avoiding children can be moral under some circumstances as you say. Again we agree. Shooting someone with a gun and killing them can be moral under some circumstances. That doesn’t and shouldn’t stop us from discussing issues like just/unjust wars, self defense, and capital punishment. Just the opposite, we are called to grow in our understanding of what the Church teaches and to share it with others. The same applies with NFP.

It is also important to note that I didn’t track down the OP at her house and start talking her about using or not using NFP. She came on the forum and asked what other people thought. So, I told her what I thought, and have attempted to do so with charity and honesty. That my thoughts disagree with the thoughs of some other commenters is not a reason for either them or myself to be silent.

Pax and God bless.

 

[Rence]

It is also important to note that I didn’t track down the OP at her house and start talking her about using or not using NFP. She came on the forum and asked what other people thought. So, I told her what I thought, and have attempted to do so with charity and honesty. That my thoughts disagree with the thoughs of some other commenters is not a reason for either them or myself to be silent.

Pax and God bless.

Actually, no, the OP did not ask what other people “thought”. She asked what they thought about the efficacy of different NFP methods. This is her first post:

I am newly engaged (yay!) and seem to have a TON to do before the wedding. As I am in the early planning stages for the wedding, which is a year and a half away, I was hoping that I could hear from you all which methods for NFP have worked for you and which haven’t. Specifically, I was wondering if anyone has used a fertility monitor (such as Clearblue) and if it works well when you are trying to avoid getting pregnant.
Thank you all!

And in posts #3 and #12 she specifically asked people to stop commenting and suggesting things OTHER THAN which method worked best for them in preventing pregancy.

So, with all due respect, although you did not track her down, you did start talking to her about using or not using NFP, which is not what she wanted answered. She just wants to know people’s direct experiences with their NFP method and if it was successful in preventing conception.

 

[aloe]

Hello Everyone!
As I am in the early planning stages for the wedding, I was hoping that I could hear from you all which methods for NFP have worked for you and which haven’t. Specifically, I was wondering if anyone has used a fertility monitor (such as Clearblue) and if it works well when you are trying to avoid getting pregnant.

Congrats on your engagement.
NFP has worked well for us to avoid. Highly successful to the point of being almost exactly like mainstream birth control. This is most likely due to the spot on regularity and predictability month after month and year of my cycles.
I have never used a fertility monitor other than all the NFP signs.

 

[Rence]

Congrats on your engagement.
NFP has worked well for us to avoid. Highly successful to the point of being almost exactly like mainstream birth control. This is most likely due to the spot on regularity and predictability month after month and year of my cycles.
I have never used a fertility monitor other than all the NFP signs.

Aloe, which method are you using? How did you learn it (books/teacher)?

 

[Dan_Daly]

Actually, no, the OP did not ask what other people “thought”. She asked what they thought about the efficacy of different NFP methods. This is her first post:

And in posts #3 and #12 she specifically asked people to stop commenting and suggesting things OTHER THAN which method worked best for them in preventing pregancy.

So, with all due respect, although you did not track her down, you did start talking to her about using or not using NFP, which is not what she wanted answered. She just wants to know people’s direct experiences with their NFP method and if it was successful in preventing conception.

Say someone comes on the forum and asks people to recommend a handgun.

There are good reasons to have one- hunting, self defense, target shooting, so people start recommending different guns.

During the course of the conversation, the OP mentions they intend to rob a bank with the gun. Now the person never asked what people thought about bank robbery. Is telling them not to do that, inappropriate because it is off topic?

During the course of this conversation, the OP has made comments that they are not in circumstances and will not be after getting, that fall into what is appropriate for using NFP to avoid children. In her own words:

I knew someone was going to say that right after I posted… My fiance and I are really looking forward to starting a family, however he is going to be done with grad school before I am and while he will be more than able to support a growing family, should that be God’s plan, I know that it would be much easier to finish school before having children.
I still would like to hear suggestions instead of judgements though

So having a child now would not be a financial hardship, because they would be more than able to support a growing family.

Just as the first question to ask someone when they want to buy a gun is “why do you want it and what are you going to use it for”, because there are different guns appropriate for different situations and some situations where no gun is appropriate, the first question to ask when someone ask about what form of NFP to use to avoid children, is “why do you want it and what are you goind to use it for”.

Pax and God bless.

 

[Rence]

During the course of this conversation, the OP has made comments that they are not in circumstances and will not be after getting, that fall into what is appropriate for using NFP to avoid children. In her own words:

First of all, she didn’t give enough information about her circumstances in order for someone to make that determination. Secondly, it’s still between her, her husband-to-be, and their priest and third (and most of all): with all due respect, you know very well what information she wants, and what “counseling” she does not welcome.

 

[aloe]

I learned it using a class, several books with highlighters close by & note taking, lots of intense research/time. The method includes abstinence, withdraw until after O, taking the temp at the same time every morning (a true resting temp), cm and cervix checks all to be entered online for a computer generated chart.

My favorite book on this subject is The Art of Natural Family Planning. I suggest all engaged and married couples read chapter 16 with much consideration before reading any other chapter.

 

[Dan_Daly]

First of all, she didn’t give enough information about her circumstances in order for someone to make that determination. Secondly, it’s still between her, her husband-to-be, and their priest and third (and most of all): with all due respect, you know very well what information she wants, and what “counseling” she does not welcome.

Thank you for the comments. I’m glad to see you adding the priest into the conversation, instead of placing it soley between the couple and God as others have. You are correct, but the same could also be said about my bank robbery scenario. As sin is judged by God and forgiven by God.

I appreciate your thoughts, and I’d reply that the information and counseling that someone wants is very often different than the information and counseling that someone needs. I include myself in that catergory. All sin is a decision to place what we WANT over what God wants. Openess to the faith often comes in stages. If someone posts on a Catholic message board, they are most likely interested in hearing the Catholic position on things, so I try to share it even if it is met with some resistance once shared.

No, I don’t have all the facts about the situation. Ultimately, not even the couple themselves, although they know far, far more than I do about the situation, do not have all the facts themselves. They don’t know if and when and for how long they will be fertile, they don’t know how long they or any chidren they have will live, and what their lives will be like. The only Persons with all the facts are God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. However, the information, the OP has shared about the situation, does raise concerns that using NFP to avoid children may not be appropriate for them at this time.

Pax and God bless.

 

[aloe]

children will never be “easy” and there will never be a “perfect” time to have them. Perhaps this time early in your married life may be the only time you will ever be able to have children. People take fertility for granted when lots of things can happen.

And all that above should be considered.
I had an unexpected medical issue and was told I needed a hysterectomy. We had no children. We both wanted children but had used methods to prevent. I cannot explain the range of emotions during that experience. I know I am not the first person to have that happen. I got other medical opinions and avoided a hysterectomy.
I do wish someone like a priest or the head of classes had addressed the child issue in person with us while in preparation for marriage in the CC. As it turned out I wanted kids many years sooner than him.

Medstudent - apologies for going so far off topic here to share some of my story. May God bless your upcoming marriage.

 

[Dan_Daly]

And all that above should be considered.
I had an unexpected medical issue and was told I needed a hysterectomy. We had no children. We both wanted children but had used methods to prevent. I cannot explain the range of emotions during that experience. I know I am not the first person to have that happen. I got other medical opinions and avoided a hysterectomy.
I do wish someone like a priest or the head of classes had addressed the child issue in person with us while in preparation for marriage in the CC. As it turned out I wanted kids many years sooner than him.

.

Well said. God bless you and your family.

Pax.

 

[Rence]

However, the information, the OP has shared about the situation, does raise concerns that using NFP to avoid children may not be appropriate for them at this time. Pax and God bless.

Incomplete information doesn’t define the situation. The OP already said she didn’t include all the pertinent information, so no one knows outside of themselves if NFP is appropriate or not in their situation.

 

[Dan_Daly]

Incomplete information doesn’t define the situation. The OP already said she didn’t include all the pertinent information, so no one knows outside of themselves if NFP is appropriate or not in their situation.

I can only go off of what information was given, and that information raised serious concerns. If the OP provided additional details to consider, I might have a different take, but based off what she said, it sounds quite likely that trying to avoid children would be innappropriate.

Children are the primary reason for marriage. Can you be married and not have children? Yes you can. But if an unmarried couple is not ready to have children, they should very seriously look at why they want to be married. It would be like a man being ordained a priest, but not wanting to celebrate the Mass.

Pax and God bless.

 

[Rence]

I can only go off of what information was given, and that information raised serious concerns. If the OP provided additional details to consider, I might have a different take, but based off what she said, it sounds quite likely that trying to avoid children would be innappropriate.

With much respect, it’s not your place to evaluate and assess her situation. An online forum is not the place to give additional details if they will make her uncomfortable. She opened the thread to gleen specific information. That did not open a window to her future marital bed.

 

[Dan_Daly]

With much respect, it’s not your place to evaluate and assess her situation. An online forum is not the place to give additional details if they will make her uncomfortable. She opened the thread to gleen specific information. That did not open a window to her future marital bed.

Decorum and respect is indeed appropriate. I’ve responded to the OPs questions and gone off the information she provided. I didn’t ask her to provide more details, but said if she did, we’d all be better equiped to advise her. You don’t know her anymore than I do (at least as far as I know), everyone is different, perhaps she does feel comfortable sharing more details, perhaps not.

It is a very important discussion. The stakes for the OP and her spouse once they are married are extremely high, as they are for all married couples. They will be called to help each other get to heaven through the graces of the sacrament. It is a humbling responsiblity. Sex is a central aspect of that responsiblity. Willful misuse of the marital act is a mortal sin. So it is quite important for all married people to understand it.

Pax and God bless.

 

[vera_dicere]

My bro and his wife use Billings. They’ve successfully avoided pregnancy for 9 years. -_-’

My cousin and his wife use Creighton, they have two children, both planned, and have been married for about six years with no other children planned presenty.

*.

Congrats on your engagement.

Now, while we’re not supposed to be playing the judgement game, my bro and his wife, their serious reasons for avoidance include, them wanting to travel the world for a few more years, her not wanting to be pregnant, and them sucked into the whole over population BS. Basically, its very easy to start thinking of children as teh enemy, as a burden, they started out wanting kids within the first year, but he got a new job and she got a promotion.

I pray you don’t fall into the same mindset.*