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Norseman82
Guest
But contraception, divorce (specifically, divorce and remarriage without an annulment if the former spouse is still alive), fornication, sodomy, and abortion are all OBJECTIVELY sinful, whereas NFP is not.
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Dan_Daly
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A civil divorce is not objectively sinful, as long as a couple understands it doesn’t change the fact they are married (if they are in fact validly married).But contraception, divorce (specifically, divorce and remarriage without an annulment if the former spouse is still alive), fornication, sodomy, and abortion are all OBJECTIVELY sinful, whereas NFP is not.
You are correct that NFP is not objectively sinful, but “nfp” is a very broad idea. When we narrow it down to using NFP in an attempt to avoid having children, the Church clearly teaches that it is only appropriate under SOME circumstances- that logically means that it is NOT appropriate in other circumstances. My goal in the conversation has been to maintain and explain that distinction rather than give the desire to remove children from marriage blanket approval.
Pax and God bless.
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Katie966
Guest
We all understand that NFP is not always used appropriately. But it is not up to you to make distinctions that the Church doesn’t even make. The bottom line is that there is no list, so certainly none of us can take one couple’s situation, which we only know bits and pieces of, and make a statement that it would be sinful for them to use NFP.You are correct that NFP is not objectively sinful, but “nfp” is a very broad idea. When we narrow it down to using NFP in an attempt to avoid having children, the Church clearly teaches that it is only appropriate under SOME circumstances- that logically means that it is NOT appropriate in other circumstances. My goal in the conversation has been to maintain and explain that distinction rather than give the desire to remove children from marriage blanket approval.
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Dan_Daly
Guest
Your statement contradicts itself.We all understand that NFP is not always used appropriately. But it is not up to you to make distinctions that the Church doesn’t even make. The bottom line is that there is no list, so certainly none of us can take one couple’s situation, which we only know bits and pieces of, and make a statement that it would be sinful for them to use NFP.
- You say that we all understand NFP is not always used appropriately.
- You say that there is no way for anyone to judge if a couple is using NFP inappropriately.
Pax and God bless.
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Katie966
Guest
No, I said there is no way for you or I or any other random person, who is unfamiliar with a couple’s situation, to judge whether or not a couple is using it appropriately. If the couple is unsure, they might consult a priest and make him aware of everything factoring into their decision, and he can give his evaluation of their situation. Otherwise, God is the only One who has the ability to judge their motivations. Not someone on the internet.Your statement contradicts itself.
So how do we know it’s being used inappropriately if we have no ability to judge if it’s being used appropriately or not?
- You say that we all understand NFP is not always used appropriately.
- You say that there is no way for anyone to judge if a couple is using NFP inappropriately.
Pax and God bless.
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
God is the only one who knows the whole circumstance and can see into each of our hearts. NFP can be used inappropriately, but it is hard for us to know from the outside (there are some cases that might be obvious, if the couple honestly states obviously frivolous reasons, or it can be clear that they are using it correctly in the case of life and death circumstances etc.)
The problem comes when people state reasons that seem like they may not be serious but we don’t know if there is more to the story. It isn’t up to us to decide for them, their specific reasons are none of our business, but in announcing their reasons (without being able to show the whole picture) they could cause others to be confused. Either way, there is nothing wrong with simply bringing up the Church’s teachings, that we have to have serious/just/grave reasons to avoid. I met someone that told me that, while they knew about NFP (as the Church’s approved birth control) they did not know it wasn’t something that the couple could use whenever they wanted to, rather than having to discern whether they really should be using it. I know someone else that used it for years, until they had a “surprise” and then had her tubes tied because she did not want more than one kid.
The problem comes when people state reasons that seem like they may not be serious but we don’t know if there is more to the story. It isn’t up to us to decide for them, their specific reasons are none of our business, but in announcing their reasons (without being able to show the whole picture) they could cause others to be confused. Either way, there is nothing wrong with simply bringing up the Church’s teachings, that we have to have serious/just/grave reasons to avoid. I met someone that told me that, while they knew about NFP (as the Church’s approved birth control) they did not know it wasn’t something that the couple could use whenever they wanted to, rather than having to discern whether they really should be using it. I know someone else that used it for years, until they had a “surprise” and then had her tubes tied because she did not want more than one kid.
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Dan_Daly
Guest
Thank you for clarifying. I agree, it is much easier to communicate and evangelize face to face than over a computer.No, I said there is no way for you or I or any other random person, who is unfamiliar with a couple’s situation, to judge whether or not a couple is using it appropriately. If the couple is unsure, they might consult a priest and make him aware of everything factoring into their decision, and he can give his evaluation of their situation. Otherwise, God is the only One who has the ability to judge their motivations. Not someone on the internet.
Pax Christi
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