Newly Married - Sleeping Arrangements?

[newbetx]

I was just thinking that… No, I am not a lawyer.

I am a person who doesn’t think women should sacrifice themselves trying to fix abusers or hopelessly broken men. There are things that can be worked out in marriages, and things that cannot! I think TigerKitty has been the victim of fraud. Would you advise someone who was the victim of a massive fraud to remain in that marriage?

While I agree with you, I think we know little of the couple other than one, probably very honest, side of the story. I don’t take marriage so lightly that it should not be worth a try to fix for at least a while. A year or so I guess if that is what it takes.

Ray, I understand your plight. Same thing happened to my father after the homewrecker lured him away from my mother. Some people ARE crazy. Any man that is avoiding appropriate relations wife has some issue that needs to be addressed. I don’t see his behavior as something that says “I wanted to marry you to use you” type thing. I suspect there is a lot more to the relationship than we’ll ever know. We don’t know what warning signs were present prior to the marriage that the woman did not see. At this point I would assume the marriage is valid and both entered it with a desire for it. The marriage deserves a chance to move forward and unfortunately, the burden to do so will weight more on one party than the other. Such is life.

The woman and her marriage deserves our support. We presume too much to advise otherwise. This woman needs to understand what tools we know of are available to assist her.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

newbetx:
On the continuing presumption of validity, I agree that should still be the starting point (and will continue to be even if it comes to a formal filing). However, there is already enough “out” where it would be poor form not to advise for her to seek the advice of her local Church in a venue where she is comfortable sharing all of the details and that she needs to prepare herself mentally for “bad news” from the more official channels too. The issues here are severe, and how they have show up suggest they require a strong steps in response to with her husband since there is so much that is so wrong and so quickly exposed after the wedding.

 

[newbetx]

newbetx:
On the continuing presumption of validity, I agree that should still be the starting point (and will continue to be even if it comes to a formal filing). However, there is already enough “out” where it would be poor form not to advise for her to seek the advice of her local Church in a venue where she is comfortable sharing all of the details and that she needs to prepare herself mentally for “bad news” from the more official channels too. The issues here are severe, and how they have show up suggest they require a strong steps in response to with her husband since there is so much that is so wrong and so quickly exposed after the wedding.

Agreed. But it is wrong to try to talk the woman into wanting to end the marriage when she does not desire it herself. She feels awful enough without us piling on reasons to. Annulment is always an option to persue but only after all other avenues have been exhausted. It is unfortunate that, too often, the posters here act like the talk show psychos that can “solve” a person’s problem in 5 min or less.

The Pharises looked for loopholes. Christ looked for faith.

 

[samovila]

TigerKitty,
I just wanted to post some encouraging words from a person who found marriage to be VERY difficult in the beginning. Shortly after the wedding I found out things about my husband’s personality and past that I had no clue about before we were married. It definitely took some getting used to and a lot of work on both our parts. Here we are 2 years later and we still go through good times and bad times. Counseling is very important to our success. Pray every day for the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit to fill both of you and your marriage.
God bless!

 

[duskyjewel]

Agreed. But it is wrong to try to talk the woman into wanting to end the marriage when she does not desire it herself. She feels awful enough without us piling on reasons to. Annulment is always an option to persue but only after all other avenues have been exhausted. It is unfortunate that, too often, the posters here act like the talk show psychos that can “solve” a person’s problem in 5 min or less.

The Pharises looked for loopholes. Christ looked for faith.

Psychos and Pharisees… no name-calling goin’ on there! :ehh:

The things TigerKitty has described would be considered as seriously good evidence for annulment by any tribunal or civil court. We are not wrong for telling her that. She should know ALL her options. Honestly, her husband does not sound capable of consenting to marriage in its fullest, Christian, sacramental sense. And, it sounds like he hid many things from her, which is fraud. But, then again, I’m just a pharisaical talk-show psycho.

 

[dianaballein]

Psychos and Pharisees… no name-calling goin’ on there! :ehh:

The things TigerKitty has described would be considered as seriously good evidence for annulment by any tribunal or civil court. We are not wrong for telling her that. She should know ALL her options.

I agree. This is not like leaving the toilet seat up or not putting your dirty socks in the hamper. The first avenue should always be to work on making things better and growing together, but IF this cannot be done, she needs to know she has options.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

It is unfortunate that, too often, the posters here act like the talk show psychos that can “solve” a person’s problem in 5 min or less.

Yes, there has to be a balance worked out. As for the OPs sitch, I was hopeful with the first update, but had a fear then that the initial appearance of concession was going to be quickly followed with backlash in the classic manipulator pattern. That backlash appears to have come to pass, with the big picture even worse than she first thought (which was already bad enough to suspect fraud and an incapacity to consent on his pat). At this point, especially with my own experience in the same vein, I cannot in good faith refrain from suggesting that she needs to investigate all of her options, especially so she knows what the minimum acceptable point is as far as where her husband has to start from in working towards meeting her.

 

[newbetx]

TigerKitty,
I just wanted to post some encouraging words from a person who found marriage to be VERY difficult in the beginning. Shortly after the wedding I found out things about my husband’s personality and past that I had no clue about before we were married. It definitely took some getting used to and a lot of work on both our parts. Here we are 2 years later and we still go through good times and bad times. Counseling is very important to our success. Pray every day for the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit to fill both of you and your marriage.
God bless!

Marriage is work. Sometimes sooner than later. Thanks for the positive report!

I’m glad that neither my wife nor I gave up and worked through our problems over the years. I’ve found that if one considers the option to divorce is there, eventually it will be the one that is used.

 

[Cat]

Marriage is work. Sometimes sooner than later. Thanks for the positive report!

I’m glad that neither my wife nor I gave up and worked through our problems over the years. I’ve found that if one considers the option to divorce is there, eventually it will be the one that is used.

From what the OP has told us in this thread, I’m not sure that the husband is capable of “working through the problems.” I do fear for her, and I do not think that this man’s problems will be worked out without some extensive intervention by professionals. I agree with the poster who said this is more than just a clash over the toilet seat.

I agree with those who say to make contact with a priest soon and enlist his help and prayers. He can help do battle for the OP’s soul and the soul of her husband.

He can also help her in a pratical way by aiding her in making contact with other Catholic agencies and invididuals that can help her get through this and hopefully, work things out. It is important that there be a well-documented “trail” of occurences in the event of any violence or abuse.

 

[duskyjewel]

TigerKitty, I have a question… you posted the following on a thread about being married to someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder in early July, which would have been right before you were married:

Does being with an NPD make you feel like you are on a “time limit” or “schedule”? Do NPD’s limit the topics and length of conversations? Essentially, do no conversations occur unless the NPD initiates them? Just wondering…

Did you know he was like this before the wedding? If so, that would seriously damage any claim you were defrauded, as many of us thought you were.

I am not trying to attack you or make you feel worse, but it seems from that post that you may have had at least some indication of these problems before the wedding…

 

[mrs_abbott]

We have a standard size bed, and we are both very thin people - so there is plenty of room…

When he does sleep in the bed, I try my best to stay on my own side and not disturb him.

He does leave very early in the morning, but I wouldn’t mind being woken up.

I take it you guys didn’t live together then before you were married then?
Is he shy?

 

[shannyk]

Well I’ve been reading this thread for a long time now, and not posted, but the last post you made, Tiger Kitty, makes me realize I’m not so crazy in thinking what I have about your husband all along.

Please, please, please - continue to pray for my husband and me. There are other issues that have surfaced (cannot bring myself to post them here) - but basically,*** I’m am terrified that he is unable to live a “normal” life of making decisions / commitments (ex., I asked him if he wanted to learn to drive a stick shift, and he said he would let me know in MARCH.)***

We are both 36 - I see almost NO chance of ever living in a real house (we are both hard workers with more than enough money to buy a house), and certainly NO HOPE of children. If he cannot give me an answer as to learning to drive a stick shift until MARCH, how long will it take for him to decide to have a child? (And maybe he can’t be selfless enough for that, anyway - oh, please PLEASE PLEASE pray for us.)

I think he has asperger’s syndrome, a mild high functioning form of autism. It’s often accompanied by OCD type behaviors, depression, and paranoia.

I was married to someone with asperger’s. It was undiagnosed for a LONG time (that’s another story…), but, it didn’t turn out well, primarily because he wouldn’t get the proper help.

I really think your husbands behavior is outside the norm and he should not be dismissed as a ‘broken’ person, but seen as someone who needs major help. I’m not trying to counter anyone else’s advice, because I know from first hand experience, that living with someone like this, can be trying to say the least. They don’t understand other people’s emotions, and it is very very HARD for them to empathize, or see things from another’s perspective. They can have extreme’s in emotion, that don’t fit the situation (i.e. getting mad out over something seemingly small, or crying at something most would consider minor.) It’s hard to ‘debate’ with them, and compromising is very hard. They tend to see thing in black and white.

Tiger Kitty, I am not trying to be a voice of discouragement here, and in no way am I saying I know for certain what is gong on with your husband, I’m no psychologist, but what you have shared sounds identical nearly, to my experience with my DH. My husband and I were not married that long (8 yrs) before he died (another long story…) but we have 3 children together. It was sometimes torture to get through daily life with him. Adding children of course changes everything in a couple’s life, and this was something that was IMPOSSIBLE for him to cope with. I could not rely on him, at all, to do anything outside of his normal routine, which did include him going to work to support us, but outside of that, mealtimes, outings, errands, all had to be scheduled around HIM. We ended up functioning as roommates basically, because to survive I HAD to just do my own thing and not count on him. Sad, but true.

Tiger Kitty, I don’t know if me relaying this will help at all. I don;t know if you can identify with it, or not. But, I do hope you and your hubby can find some help. He needs it I think. The sleeping together thing is obviously just a symptom of something deeper going on with him.

Prayers for you both :hug1:

ETA: I just wanted to point out that people with aspergers don’t control and put people on time limits etc because they are trying to be…mean, or dominating. They do it because it’s the ony way they can make sense of a world that doesn’t make sense to them. They really don’t ‘get’ the subtleties of conversation, the reciprocity involved, or other people’s emotions.

 

[adelore]

“Just the way he is?” Somethings not right with that. I mean if that is how he felt about sexualy relations then he should have told you about his feelings before you were married. During the 3 years of dating.

A husband or a wife shouldn’t “with hold” the sexual relations from each other, unless both consent to it together. And Newlyweds to boot…Wow, that really floors me.

Something just seems very “Strange” here. I believe you might find more behind this with more Conversation with your Husband.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Well I’ve been reading this thread for a long time now, and not posted, but the last post you made, Tiger Kitty, makes me realize I’m not so crazy in thinking what I have about your husband all along.

I think he has asperger’s syndrome, a mild high functioning form of autism. It’s often accompanied by OCD type behaviors, depression, and paranoia.

I was married to someone with asperger’s. It was undiagnosed for a LONG time (that’s another story…), but, it didn’t turn out well, primarily because he wouldn’t get the proper help.

I really think your husbands behavior is outside the norm and he should not be dismissed as a ‘broken’ person, but seen as someone who needs major help. I’m not trying to counter anyone else’s advice, because I know from first hand experience, that living with someone like this, can be trying to say the least. They don’t understand other people’s emotions, and it is very very HARD for them to empathize, or see things from another’s perspective. They can have extreme’s in emotion, that don’t fit the situation (i.e. getting mad out over something seemingly small, or crying at something most would consider minor.) It’s hard to ‘debate’ with them, and compromising is very hard. They tend to see thing in black and white.

Tiger Kitty, I am not trying to be a voice of discouragement here, and in no way am I saying I know for certain what is gong on with your husband, I’m no psychologist, but what you have shared sounds identical nearly, to my experience with my DH. My husband and I were not married that long (8 yrs) before he died (another long story…) but we have 3 children together. It was sometimes torture to get through daily life with him. Adding children of course changes everything in a couple’s life, and this was something that was IMPOSSIBLE for him to cope with. I could not rely on him, at all, to do anything outside of his normal routine, which did include him going to work to support us, but outside of that, mealtimes, outings, errands, all had to be scheduled around HIM. We ended up functioning as roommates basically, because to survive I HAD to just do my own thing and not count on him. Sad, but true.

Tiger Kitty, I don’t know if me relaying this will help at all. I don;t know if you can identify with it, or not. But, I do hope you and your hubby can find some help. He needs it I think. The sleeping together thing is obviously just a symptom of something deeper going on with him.

Prayers for you both :hug1:

ETA: I just wanted to point out that people with aspergers don’t control and put people on time limits etc because they are trying to be…mean, or dominating. They do it because it’s the ony way they can make sense of a world that doesn’t make sense to them. They really don’t ‘get’ the subtleties of conversation, the reciprocity involved, or other people’s emotions.

That was most insightful. I hope that Tiger really pays attention to the above post. It’s easy to see something mental or emotional is not balanced correctly in him. I hope that your children are alright. Thank you very much for sharing.
God bless you.

 

[mdr]

Unless the hurricane heading to the gulf comes to louisiana and I have absolutely no way of corresponding with you, I will be here for you to talk to. But there is JESUS, and He is the be All, end All to this situation for you. And He wants you. PM me, and I will try to find the best places for you to go in your area.
You are in my prayers, and I am sure of many others on this thread. I am heartily sorry that you are having to go through this…and even more so that you seem to be going through it alone.
I wish that there was more that I could do. Please pray that my kids and I will not have to evacuate because of the storm heading out to the Gulf of Mexico. I just had a major operation, and I have 5 more weeks of recovery. Travelling to God knows where without a man with us, with 4 kids…3 of them boys 6, 7, & 8 years old…plus 2 dogs is going to be very difficult. so please also pray for us.

Remember, Jesus loves you, and He is with you and your husband.
Cherie

Cherie, I know this is off topic, but did y’all make out okay with Gustav? We were fortunate enough to get out in time (17 hrs to go 400 mi, 3 cars, 3 drivers, 4 kids including a potty-training 4yo, and a 75yo m-i-l make for a lot of stops! not to mention contraflow traffic), and we just have minor cleanup to do. There is FEMA help available if you have damage; www.wwltv.com can give some good info. Hope you’re all right.

-mdr

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Cherie, I know this is off topic, but did y’all make out okay with Gustav? We were fortunate enough to get out in time (17 hrs to go 400 mi, 3 cars, 3 drivers, 4 kids including a potty-training 4yo, and a 75yo m-i-l make for a lot of stops! not to mention contraflow traffic), and we just have minor cleanup to do. There is FEMA help available if you have damage; www.wwltv.com can give some good info. Hope you’re all right.

-mdr

Thank you so much for asking. yes, we made out fine. We are from Mandeville, and left Saturday afternoon using state highways. Where abouts are ya’ll from? We got home Friday afternoon to everything working except Cable TV.

Now, as of 1:00pm Monday afternoon, we figure that Wednesday morning is going to have us evacuating again because of Hurricane Ike.

I am trying to recuperate from a major surgery, I am always in pain. And there is no rest on the evacuation…even after we get to our destination.
But still, God is great all of the time!

I am happy to know that you and yours made it out alright.

May Christ Jesus bless you and all of your intentions.

 

[mdr]

Thank you so much for asking. yes, we made out fine. We are from Mandeville, and left Saturday afternoon using state highways. Where abouts are ya’ll from? We got home Friday afternoon to everything working except Cable TV.

Now, as of 1:00pm Monday afternoon, we figure that Wednesday morning is going to have us evacuating again because of Hurricane Ike.

I am trying to recuperate from a major surgery, I am always in pain. And there is no rest on the evacuation…even after we get to our destination.
But still, God is great all of the time!

I am happy to know that you and yours made it out alright.

May Christ Jesus bless you and all of your intentions.

We’re in Metairie, close to the lake. Thankfully, it looks as though Ike is heading toward S. Texas now, so I guess I can unpack…

Hope you can rest up now; evacuating is so draining even for healthy folks, especially with young children. Take care & God bless you all-

-mary

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

We’re in Metairie, close to the lake. Thankfully, it looks as though Ike is heading toward S. Texas now, so I guess I can unpack…

Hope you can rest up now; evacuating is so draining even for healthy folks, especially with young children. Take care & God bless you all-

-mary

We are so close to each other!!! Do you have teenagers who might be part of CCRNO? We also know homeschoolers who are part of the Agnus Dei homeschool association. We are at Rummel most Sunday nights for the youth group…yes, I travel the causeway in order to get my daughter there. We also used to attend the Wednesday night prayer meetings at St. Benilde’s…but we stopped before Fr. Cohen passed away. It had gotten to be too hectic after having 3 more children. It is so neat talking with someone who is so close. I am glad you all did well through the storm, and that we do not have to evacuate again. Now my prayers will be that the storm dissipates before reaching land in TX.

Well, goodnight. God bless you, Cherie