Newlywed issue

[JerseyKnit]

Hi! I am a recently married lurker and am really in need of some advice or words of encouragement.

Before we met, my DH was away from church and had some (major) impurity issues. I never asked details before we married and the times it came up it seemed to upset him. I accepted his past and figured it would be best if I didn’t ask prying questions that I really didn’t want answers about.

He has been a frequenter of confession and was chaste the whole time we dated. He prays a lot to St. Joseph and has told me (I believe him) how long it’s been since he committed those sins.

Now that we are married, our sex life isn’t what either of us expected. We both thought we’d “be Together” several times a day, but he has issues with being able to unless I manually stimulate him first.

This has brought up knowledge about exactly what his past sins were: fornication, masturbation, AND pornography! I was shocked and hurt but I do not really have a right to be. I knew he had committed serious sins over a long period of time and I accepted it. He is sad that he can’t approach sex with the same “innocence” I have. It has been even more difficult lately since I reacted really badly about learning the details of his past.

In a calm conversation, We have decided that we will only have sex when he initiates it so that he doesn’t get nervous and not be able to do it. That was my idea because he seemed so sad when he wasn’t able to and it also made me feel sad. We haven’t “been together” since (it’s only been a day…I just hope I made the right choice). He has offered to give me any other information about the past if I would like it.

The thing is, I actually really enjoy sex with him and it seems my emotions have destroyed it. Like I said, I reacted badly and then his problem got worse. He feels inadequate. I am still hurt.

so tell me, what would you do? Was I out of line to criticize his desire for manual stimulation? are we both wrong to have decided to put sex on the back burner? Should I learn even more about his past? How can I make things ok?

I am so sad and I love my DH very much. I know he loves me. I am an impatient person.

 

[Trishie]

Welcome.

I think that you two need to seek professional advice together about this.
The expectation of several times a day is certainly a lot of pressure, by the way.
However our opinions here, are less what you need, than to work things out with the help of a good counselor, before serious harm occurs in your relationship.

May God bless you both

 

[JacarandaPurple]

What’s wrong with manual stimulation to “start his engine?” How is that wrong?

As to you being upset about his past…well, you chose not to get details. You should have had these conversations before marriage.

I agree the expectation of several times a day, every day is crazy pressure. Backing off was the right choice. He is not a machine.

 

[JerseyKnit]

The “several times a day” thing was his words. I told him before we got married not to say that bacause we didn;t know. I didn’t think he was a machine I just thought there would be more than one way for him to be able to be with me. Like, he’d be into me enough to not need that every time. Thank you for the responses. It is scary to think we need counseling after not even being married a year but we might. If any of you have been to counseling and have advice please help me.

 

[JacarandaPurple]

Ok, I understand better now. I hope you can get the help you need. I agree that this must be a painful shock.

 

[triumphguy]

A few random thoughts:

On the rankings of serious sexual sins pornography and masturbation are lower than serial affairs, seeing prostitutes, adulterous liaisons etc.

The fact that your DH went to confession frequently shows that he saw his sinfulness as grave.

Several times a week is more the norm than several times a day!

Relax a bit, take your time. Get to know each other. Have fun. Take your time. TRy not to be black and white. Take your time. Did I say “take your time”?

 

[AthenaC]

Let me agree with everyone else so far:

SEX SHOULD NOT BE LIKE THIS!!!

Please, both of you go to counseling. These issues are much deeper than his previous behavior. My husband and I both did everything you just mentioned with other people long before we got together, and we have a great relationship, both in and out of the bedroom. We also know many other couples in the same boat we are.

Also, there’s nothing wrong with foreplay to get ready for sex, but I agree it could possibly be an issue if there’s only one thing that can get him ready.

I hope you guys are able to work everything out.

 

[Mystic_Banana]

Several times a day is a pretty tall order for… how long?!? I think both of you should put all this in perspective. Sex is not something that is ever-exciting, and as easy and fresh as the first time, expecially for your husband if he has already had some degree of satiation of his sexual needs in less wholesome manner - it’s issues like these that demonstrate the wisdom behind Church teachings.

On the other hand, you’re ‘performing’ quite well if this is a nadir…I just think perhaps you’re setting your pace a little high :takeoff:

I’m not really convinced you’re at the stage of requiring something drastic like counselling. These are minor setbacks, honest! Just relax, stop being over-worried about mutual sexual performance… there’s nothing more likely to impair mutual sexual performance!!

 

[St_Francis]

How old is your husband and could he have a physical problem? (Don’t answer here! Just consider that something physical might be the source of the problem…)

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Hi! I am a recently married lurker and am really in need of some advice or words of encouragement.

Before we met, my DH was away from church and had some (major) impurity issues. I never asked details before we married and the times it came up it seemed to upset him. I accepted his past and figured it would be best if I didn’t ask prying questions that I really didn’t want answers about.

He has been a frequenter of confession and was chaste the whole time we dated. He prays a lot to St. Joseph and has told me (I believe him) how long it’s been since he committed those sins.

Now that we are married, our sex life isn’t what either of us expected. We both thought we’d “be Together” several times a day, but he has issues with being able to unless I manually stimulate him first.

This has brought up knowledge about exactly what his past sins were: fornication, masturbation, AND pornography! I was shocked and hurt but I do not really have a right to be. I knew he had committed serious sins over a long period of time and I accepted it. He is sad that he can’t approach sex with the same “innocence” I have. It has been even more difficult lately since I reacted really badly about learning the details of his past.

In a calm conversation, We have decided that we will only have sex when he initiates it so that he doesn’t get nervous and not be able to do it. That was my idea because he seemed so sad when he wasn’t able to and it also made me feel sad. We haven’t “been together” since (it’s only been a day…I just hope I made the right choice). He has offered to give me any other information about the past if I would like it.

The thing is, I actually really enjoy sex with him and it seems my emotions have destroyed it. Like I said, I reacted badly and then his problem got worse. He feels inadequate. I am still hurt.

so tell me, what would you do? Was I out of line to criticize his desire for manual stimulation? are we both wrong to have decided to put sex on the back burner? Should I learn even more about his past? How can I make things ok?

I am so sad and I love my DH very much. I know he loves me. I am an impatient person.

He already feels guilty because he has not always been chaste. He has previous experience and it’s not with you. Guilt can kill sexual desire like just about nothing else. Even if he’s confessed it, the residual memories hang around and come up at the wrong moments. Over time, this should improve, but if he’s had a long history, it could take a long time to heal.

The expectation that you would have sex even every day, let alone several times a day, suggests that he may have been quite obsessed with porn and masturbation and just carried that over into your relationship. Porn can really distort sexuality, and it can take a long time and a lot of work to heal the damage.

I’m sorry that you didn’t discuss all of this before the marriage. I agree that working with a good marital counselor, one that has experience in porn addiction, would be very helpful. Don’t feel badly about seeking help. You can get intervention now, before bad habits and walls get built, or you can just stuff everything down and be miserable and not have that close relationship that both of you want. I think the focus should be on his porn usage, because it’s likely that is where the problem is located.

But in the meantime, try to relax! If you go a day or two without having sex, he might just desire you enough to not need manual stimulation! Not having sex every day does not mean he loves you any less! Find other ways to show your affection for each other. Try not to talk about it ALL the time, I mean, the problems. He’s more than his prior addictions, right?

 

[twoangels]

I don’t think you need counciling at all. I think this is just an issue of faulty expectations and the need to learn to be more sensitive to him with your reactions.

Now that we are married, our sex life isn’t what either of us expected. We both thought we’d “be Together” several times a day, but he has issues with being able to unless I manually stimulate him first.

There is nothing immoral with manual stimulation as a form of foreplay. Its completely normal and is not masturbation. His past sins have nothing to do with it.

This has brought up knowledge about exactly what his past sins were: fornication, masturbation, AND pornography! I was shocked and hurt but I do not really have a right to be. I knew he had committed serious sins over a long period of time and I accepted it. He is sad that he can’t approach sex with the same “innocence” I have. It has been even more difficult lately since I reacted really badly about learning the details of his past.

It would be. You criticized your husband (rejected him) for not being able to perform beyond his endurence. It also sounds like you forced him to confide in you deeply personal sins from a hostile conversation that I’d suspect was accusatory and full of blame. Then you condemned him for his sins and made him feel even more inadequate.

In a calm conversation, We have decided that we will only have sex when he initiates it so that he doesn’t get nervous and not be able to do it. That was my idea because he seemed so sad when he wasn’t able to and it also made me feel sad. We haven’t “been together” since (it’s only been a day…I just hope I made the right choice). He has offered to give me any other information about the past if I would like it.

I’d advise the two of you to work on building up trust and intimacy in your marriage. Him being the only one to inititate is more like a safety net to compensate for a lack of trust which is messing with his sexual performance. I’d recommend the book “Holy Sex” by Gregory Popcak because it has a lot of good information about understanding how your daily relationship and sexual relationship play into each other.

 

[Schieffelin]

First of all, try to relax. I think a lot of us go into marriage with some unrealistic expectations about sex. We think it’s just going to be natural, easy, and frequent. But that’s rarely how it works out. These things take time. You have the rest of your life to work on your intimacy and get to a place you’re both very happy.

You are perfectly normal. You guys should get some counseling (first year marriage counseling is great–my DH and I did it). Also pick up a copy of Gregory Popcacks book Holy Sex.

 

[EasterJoy]

Maybe the issue isn’t what you did wrong or what he did wrong, but that you two are wallowing in the blame game. Perhaps this whole mess of suffering is not at all about the sins your husband committed in his past, but is really rooted in the sin of holding a past sin against a sinner, a sinner whom God has absolved and welcomed entirely back into grace. Maybe the problem is that neither of you are treating your husband as God has commanded you to treat all who sin, but especially all who sin and repent. God has released your husband of his sin, has put the sin entirely behind his back. It is time for you two to do the same.

God does not intend the commission or even the habit of sexual sin to ruin a person’s future enjoyment of chaste marital sex. Why should it? Do we not believe in absolution? There are temporal effects to sin, but we all have those to deal with. We are all debtors who have had far more taken off our accounts than we can ever repay. We are in no position to hold another person’s “credit history” against them! As it is, you two still hold your husband’s past against him, and as a result you are using this to blame him because he cannot give himself to you and you are having trouble accepting his gift of himself, as well, because you are not willing to take him where he is.

You don’t know that you would be fully comfortable with sex if your husband’s past were different. You are suffering from issues, after all, that many couples face, couples with no past to blame. And by the way, manual stimulation between spouses is a totally acceptable form of foreplay. He is not damaged goods because he needs that, but even if he were, he’s yours, for better or for worse, and yours to make feel totally loved and accepted. If you have a moral way to make him feel loved and to help him give himself to you, for crying out loud, do that!

Let’s review what is actually in the Gospels. Do you remember the story of the woman at the well? (If not, go to John 4.) You do know that she was out there getting water in the heat of the day (“the hour was about noon” was not put in that story by accident) because she was avoiding (or was being avoided by) the other women? Why? Because of sexual sin. Jesus was totally aware of it, and yet he chose that very woman to bring the Gospel to her village. He did not have the human reaction to her past. His reaction to her past was divine. He saw not what she had been, but what he intended to make her.

Likewise, what was his treatment of the woman caught that day in the very act of adultery, a woman who had never uttered a word of repentance? He had two things to say, didn’t he? “Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” and “Neither do I condemn you. Go, and from now on do not sin any more.” (John 8)

And what did he say in Luke 15? Let’s just hit the punch lines:
“I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.”

“In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

“His son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I no longer deserve to be called your son.’ But his father ordered his servants, ‘Quickly bring the finest robe and put it on him; put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. "Take the fattened calf and slaughter it. Then let us celebrate with a feast, because this son of mine was dead, and has come to life again; he was lost, and has been found.’ Then the celebration began.”

“He said to him, ‘My son, you are here with me always; everything I have is yours. But now we must celebrate and rejoice, because your brother was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’”

And what did Jesus tell us just last Sunday? “This is my commandment: love one another as I love you.” That’s your task, new wife. Lead your husband to understand the love God has for him, and what total forgiveness really means.

I want to clarify: If one spouse has had his or her trust violated, the other spouse is not entitled to be put in a position of trust because they have repented and are forgiven. They still have to regain the trust they lost. That is not what you are describing, though, OP. You are describing two people who are beating up on a sinner when Heaven has commanded you to rejoice at his repentance. Of 100 men who commit the sins your husband has committed, how many repent? How many desire a life of purity and devotion to their one beloved wife? Maybe that is where you can find the joy that belongs in your sex life…your husband was dead, and now he is alive. Now is the time to slaughter that fatted calf!!!

My advice is that you use this issue to train yourself to be compassionate towards sinners and to be true rejoicers in the infinite mercy of God. This is just lesson one, and it is getting you ready to follow the command of God towards many other sinners that God will send to you for compassion and education in the task of humbly and joyfully accepting forgiveness. It will also be some immunization against the temptation to consider sinners, even those who have not repented yet, through the eyes of the hard-hearted of the Pharisees and the scribes, and that is a frequent temptation that the evil one uses against those who are succeeding at any kind of moral purity, but especially chastity. When you get through this, you will be a better married couple, a couple with more life and truly divine love to give to the Body of Christ and to the world, and you will be better parents, too.

PS Several times a day? During your honeymoon, maybe, but there gets to be a point where you have to have a life, too, you know. Consider lowering those expectations, people. Besides, when the children come, that will be out the window, even on weekends!

 

[EasterJoy]

…You criticized your husband (rejected him) for not being able to perform beyond his endurence. It also sounds like you forced him to confide in you deeply personal sins from a hostile conversation that I’d suspect was accusatory and full of blame. Then you condemned him for his sins and made him feel even more inadequate…

Let’s not be too hard on her. I suspect she jumped on a bandwagon that her DH had already stocked with a full orchestra. It’s a very common mistake, and they are young at this. She, just as much as he, has only to repent and amend, that is the main thing.

After all, heaven forbid that they beat themselves up for beating themselves up…we’ve all done that, and where does it end? It gets to be ludicrous, eventually!

OP, we think you may have something to confess here, but we can’t know. You may have done very little to your husband and made it sound worse in your note because you are hard on yourself, too…we can’t know. I can hardly believe you meant him any harm or that your intent was to punish him. If you do have something to confess, though, you are allowed to drop the guilt trip on yourself as soon as you truly repent and make a firm purpose to confess. You may feel guilt, sure, but you don’t have to drag the guilt around until Saturday afternoon or when you get a chance to go to Mass. (Confession is an invaluable source of graces against venial sin, very much to be encouraged, but Holy Communion wipes away venial sin, do not forget that.)

If you can drop the emotions that you are given to lead you to repentance before confession, that is OK. The emotions are to help your conscience know it needs to repent, not a little black angel sent to beat you up. If that is how you feel, that is how you feel, I don’t mean that guilt feelings are wrong. I mean to say that while actively holding on to the idea that you’re a bad person after you’ve confessed is really not God’s plan, the desire to punish yourself by feeling bad until you’ve confessed isn’t in God’s plan, either. That desire to beat up on yourself is shame at work, not a healthy sense of guilt. Remember what the name “Satan” means: the Accuser. The Holy Spirit is your Advocate, not your Accuser.

Also, dare to have a sense of humor when you find you’ve been foolish! Shake your head and say to yourself, “Kids, we are silly kids, what are we thinking?” Then put on a smile because the sky really is not falling after all, and get back to enjoying your wonderful marriage.

That way, the joke will be on the devil, and not on you. When fatted calf is on the menu, he always wants to spoil it. Pour a glass of wine, instead, and throw salt in his eye!

Every marriage can use a sense of humor, especially the willingness to laugh at mistakes and move on. It is a wonderful tool for making a long and happy life.

You sound like a lovely couple, and well on your way to a marriage full of every manner of fidelity, mutual care, and love of God. This is just a little bump; you will get used to these. Bumps happen.

May you have a long and happy life together!!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

To people who do not have an ugly sexual past -

It’s not easy to leave this behind. Porn leaves images in your brain, that persist for a long time. Masturbation is a habit that is difficult to break, and sometimes becomes an obsession, especially if porn is involved. Previous sexual experiences live on in your brain also, and show up at the worst times (when you are making love with your spouse).

I had guilt even before I reverted. Once I returned to the Church, I carried a ton more guilt forward. Yes, I understand I am forgiven. Yet the effects persist. I continued to masturbate and use contraception even after I returned to the Church, and did certain sexual practices that are sinful, until earlier this year when I could finally talk to my husband about it.

Not to make this thread about me.

I’m just saying that unless you have been there, you don’t know how messed up one’s sexuality can get. On this earth, I will NEVER understand nor experience what holy sex could be. You can’t get the toothpaste back into the tube once it’s out…

However, the OP and her husband sound young…I hope he can be more successful at healing than I have been. A support group or therapist would help, IMO. And frequent confession from an understanding priest.

 

[EasterJoy]

To people who do not have an ugly sexual past -

It’s not easy to leave this behind. Porn leaves images in your brain, that persist for a long time. Masturbation is a habit that is difficult to break, and sometimes becomes an obsession, especially if porn is involved. Previous sexual experiences live on in your brain also, and show up at the worst times (when you are making love with your spouse).

I had guilt even before I reverted. Once I returned to the Church, I carried a ton more guilt forward. Yes, I understand I am forgiven. Yet the effects persist. I continued to masturbate and use contraception even after I returned to the Church, and did certain sexual practices that are sinful, until earlier this year when I could finally talk to my husband about it.

Not to make this thread about me.

I’m just saying that unless you have been there, you don’t know how messed up one’s sexuality can get. On this earth, I will NEVER understand nor experience what holy sex could be. You can’t get the toothpaste back into the tube once it’s out…

However, the OP and her husband sound young…I hope he can be more successful at healing than I have been. A support group or therapist would help, IMO. And frequent confession from an understanding priest.

This is a very good point!

We aren’t saying shame is something to be ashamed of, or we shouldn’t be saying that. We’re saying that shame is a wound to be tended, a bond that God desires to have broken, a prison from which God intends the prisoner to be freed. No matter what lies the devil tells, shame is not the truth, shame does not have a healing element to it, shame does not have a positive purpose. Shame is not deserved, but it is also not something that the person feeling the shame can always feel free to turn on and off. It is a means by which we are tormented, sometimes with our cooperation, but sometimes in spite of our best efforts to resist it.

It is a mistake to address the issues they are having by blaming them on a past that he has repented from and can’t change. The issues are there, but it is time to patiently and lovingly deal with them, together, as one of many obstacles they will need to navigate as they go through life.

The message is not that the OP’s husband should be ashamed of his shame, but that he and his wife ought to give him permission and encouragement to do the work of letting go of it. Likewise, they need to be matter-of-fact that they are going to address whatever physical challenges he has ahead as a result of his past choices as a couple. If he had lost his ability to walk because he had been in an alcohol-related crash, would they hold his bad judgement over his head forever? Would they keep returning to the idea that the challenges they have to face are his fault? Let’s hope not! Let’s hope they’d set their life up to give him as much mobility as possible, and to regain his ability to walk, if that were possible, and if not, to rejoice in what he can do, and go with that. This is that kind of a situation.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

This is a very good point!

We aren’t saying shame is something to be ashamed of, or we shouldn’t be saying that. We’re saying that shame is a wound to be tended, a bond that God desires to have broken, a prison from which God intends the prisoner to be freed. No matter what lies the devil tells, shame is not the truth, shame does not have a healing element to it, shame does not have a positive purpose. Shame is not deserved, but it is also not something that the person feeling the shame can always feel free to turn on and off. It is a means by which we are tormented, sometimes with our cooperation, but sometimes in spite of our best efforts to resist it.

It is a mistake to address the issues they are having by blaming them on a past that he has repented from and can’t change. The issues are there, but it is time to patiently and lovingly deal with them, together, as one of many obstacles they will need to navigate as they go through life.

The message is not that the OP’s husband should be ashamed of his shame, but that he and his wife ought to give him permission and encouragement to do the work of letting go of it. Likewise, they need to be matter-of-fact that they are going to address whatever physical challenges he has ahead as a result of his past choices as a couple. If he had lost his ability to walk because he had been in an alcohol-related crash, would they hold his bad judgement over his head forever? Would they keep returning to the idea that the challenges they have to face are his fault? Let’s hope not! Let’s hope they’d set their life up to give him as much mobility as possible, and to regain his ability to walk, if that were possible, and if not, to rejoice in what he can do, and go with that. This is that kind of a situation.

Agree completely. They would not try to heal that kind of injury on their own, though - they would be in the care of competent professionals who could rehabilitate him and help him learn new ways of coping with whatever disability he may be left with. That is why I believe that he needs to seek help NOW from people who know this problem from the inside and can help guide him toward forgiving himself as God has already forgiven him. He doesn’t have an entire lifetime of sin and self-recrimination to work through, so there’s a good chance he can reclaim what the locusts have consumed, but there’s no point in wasting time trying to do it on his own.

To use your analogy, if a person who had injured himself in a DUI had serious disabilities, it wouldn’t do any good for him to tell himself, “Well I deserve this pain I am living with, so I am not going to see the doctor,” because his injuries might never heal, or they might heal so as to cause him even further pain and disability. Even if his injuries came about from a personal moral failure, they still deserve treatment.

There is a huge degree of shame involved in sins of impurity. In this case, at least his wife knows the extent of his sin and they can deal with it together. But even she probably needs someone else to talk to, to express her feelings of hurt and pain to, who is NOT him. I would advise her to seek her own counselor even if her husband does not wish to (but I hope that he does, also). A spiritual director can also help a person get through the shame. And a lot of time spent before the Blessed Sacrament will also help, as will frequent confession and reception of the Eucharist.

 

[PaulGH]

We both thought we’d “be Together” several times a day,

As I think others have said, that’s probably not a reasonable expectation. OK, maybe for a few days on the honeymoon, but not on an ongoing basis, week after week, month after month. There will be other demands on your time and his time, and the human body does have its limits!

It might be better to set your expectation at several times per week, or perhaps even once per day, but not several times per day.

but he has issues with being able to unless I manually stimulate him first.

Is this necessarily a problem? I can understand why you might expect that simply being together in that moment would be enough to get him going, but if he needs a little extra help from you, is that really a problem?

so tell me, what would you do? Was I out of line to criticize his desire for manual stimulation? are we both wrong to have decided to put sex on the back burner? Should I learn even more about his past? How can I make things ok?.

My advice would be relax, and just let it happen. Marriage is never going to be exactly what you expected before you got married. He is your husband, you are his wife, you love each other. Just relax and let yourselves express that love for each other. Worrying about it or criticizing each other on such sensitive issues will only make the situation worse.

Another thing is that the longer you are married, the more you will get in tune with each other with regard to sexual intimacy. If it seems like you are not quite on the same page with each other right now, at the start of your marriage, just relax and be patient. If all goes well, you should find yourselves more and more in tune with each other with each passing year.

 

[EasterJoy]

Agree completely. They would not try to heal that kind of injury on their own, though - they would be in the care of competent professionals who could rehabilitate him and help him learn new ways of coping with whatever disability he may be left with. That is why I believe that he needs to seek help NOW from people who know this problem from the inside and can help guide him toward forgiving himself as God has already forgiven him. He doesn’t have an entire lifetime of sin and self-recrimination to work through, so there’s a good chance he can reclaim what the locusts have consumed, but there’s no point in wasting time trying to do it on his own.

To use your analogy, if a person who had injured himself in a DUI had serious disabilities, it wouldn’t do any good for him to tell himself, “Well I deserve this pain I am living with, so I am not going to see the doctor,” because his injuries might never heal, or they might heal so as to cause him even further pain and disability. Even if his injuries came about from a personal moral failure, they still deserve treatment.

There is a huge degree of shame involved in sins of impurity. In this case, at least his wife knows the extent of his sin and they can deal with it together. But even she probably needs someone else to talk to, to express her feelings of hurt and pain to, who is NOT him. I would advise her to seek her own counselor even if her husband does not wish to (but I hope that he does, also). A spiritual director can also help a person get through the shame. And a lot of time spent before the Blessed Sacrament will also help, as will frequent confession and reception of the Eucharist.

This post is full of wise advice.

 

[Mystic_Banana]

This post is full of wise advice.

I agree, also regarding the whole thread. I hope the OP reads this stuff - I think, here, there’s a lot of honest reflection of what life is really like, and how the modern approach to sex affects us. I can relate to all this far too well