Newlywed Question: What constitutes a "serious reason" for postponing a pregnancy?

[grandfather]

You will never be completely ready but adding a child early on in a marriage in which two people are still getting used to living with each other and working out their finances can easily add to the problems you already face. About three months into our marriage my wife asked me when I thought we should start having kids, I told her to ask me later, I was still getting used to having her around the house.

My wife and I waited until our employment was stable (3 years) and we had our finances in order. We thank God we did, our older son was born and everything was fine until age three. At that point he was diagnosed with intractable epilepsy and proceeded to run up medical bills into the hundreds of thousands of dollars for each of the next three years. Had we had our son earlier when we were on my wife’s public school health insurance he would never have gotten the treatments he needed, nor would my wife have been able to quit working to take care of him.
You can never be completely ready but having children before you have prepared yourself is neither fair to the child or the spouce.

Why do you think that had you had a baby earlier that child would have had the disease your first sone has?

 

[grandfather]

That being said, only you and your spouse know when the right time is. Good luck to you and please pray if you don’t know when the right time is.

It is beyond amazing that people think they can know such a thing.

 

[grandfather]

Maybe a little background perspective might be helpful.

THe divorce rate among Catholic couples is virtually identical to the rest of the population. It is 2% lower. 90% of Catholic couples ignore their Church’s moral teaching on contraception. Of the 10% who follow the teaching the divorce rate is 2%. Of the 90% who do not, the divorce rate is identical to the rest of the population.

The Church says the marital act must be open to life or it is a grevous moral evil, sinful. Therefore NFP which is open to the transmission of life can be acceptable if there is a serious reason to postpone pregnancy. NFP is not always morally acceptable, but when there is a valid reason. The question of the OP was about what is a valid or serious reason.

Is a couple’s feelings about the matter, how a couple “feels” relevant to the matter? That is pretty trivial. It almost reduces having a baby to being comparable to what I feel like putting on my pizza for dinner. There are objective reasons that do not change from couple to couple and they do not have anything to do with feelings.

If a wife is undergoing a serious medical therapy and pregnancy would put her at risk sounds pretty serious for example. A couple just not feeling ready, because they want to be able to travel to Switzerland and have ski vacations for a couple of years sounds kind of trivial.

The marital act has two purposes. It unites the couple in love and creates new life. If we try to separate those purposes we end up sick. Our world today is very sick in this area, and confused. Eating food has two purposes. It gives pleasure and nutrition. In pagan Rome at their orgies people deliberately threw up to continue the pleasure of the feast when they could not hold any more food. We think this is perverted, but they did not. They did not see it. Our population does not see that using marriage for a purpose for which it is not made is perverted. That is why such a high percentage of marriages fail.

Whenever you use a thing for some purpose for which it is not made, it breaks.

 

[grandfather]

The marital act is not simply something that is morally permissible and pleasurable. It is a holy thing. It is lving out a sacrament, or supposed to be. What makes it holy?

In it the husband and wife are joined together not only with one another, but with God and a new and immortal being is created. This is a great gift to the human couple. The angels can’t do this. They do not have this power.

What happens when God wants to give you a blessing or gift and you tell Him get lost?

 

[Scottgun]

“But if, according to a rational and just judgement, there are no similar grave reasons of a personal nature or deriving from external circumstances, then the determination to avoid habitually the fecundity of the union while at the same time to continue fully satisfying their sensuality, can be derived only from a false appreciation of life and from reasons having nothing to do with proper ethical laws.” - Pius XII, Apostolate of the Midwife"Therefore, in our late allocution on conjugal morality, We affirmed the legitimacy, and at the same time, the limits – in truth very wide – of a regulation of offspring, which, unlike so-called ‘birth control,’ is compatible with the law of God." - Pius XII, Morality in Marriage (emphasis mine), from Papal Pronouncements on Marriage and the Family, Werth and Mihanovich, 1955
​

Blogger friend Zippy called this Magisterial support for “Broadband NFP”
​

 

[petsr4ever]

I hate to say this, but I can’t believe that you guys are actually having a conversation like this. It has been years since I left the Catholic church. Even at that time, I never realized that the church had so much control over what a married couple does within the privacy of their marriage. So, it’s not enough that you get properly married within the church in order to have a sexual relationship with the person you love. No, apparently you have some strict guidelines as to how and when you can have sex within that marriage. The church dictates that a married couple must have procreation in mind when they are having sex. Is that supposed to be first and foremost? Procreating? In other words, you have to have kids. Or you have to at least try? Or what? It is sinful to have sex within a lawful and christian marriage if you are not planning to procreate?

As far as I am concerned, no church or religion has any business telling people what they can or cannot do with their sex lives within a marriage. No church or religion has any business telling people that they have to have kids. It’s not a sin to not have kids. There’s a whole bunch of people out there that should have never ever had any kids. The church isn’t saying anything about that fact. Of course the catholic church didn’t say much when Hitler was murdering the Jews, either. So, go figure.

I have never had any regrets about quitting the Catholic church. And when I read some of the baloney on this forum, I can’t believe that anybody else can be bamboozled into being controlled by the nonsensical rules of the catholic church. And rules made up by a bunch of unmarried men to boot. Wake up people. Tell the church to stay out of the privacy and the sanctity of your marriage. Is the church going to give you the money to take care of a bunch of kids? Is the catholic church going to give your kids a free education in a nice private catholic school? I think not.

 

[SamH]

Why do you think that had you had a baby earlier that child would have had the disease your first sone has?

I didn’t say that he would have. No one could tell us why he has epilepsy; no one could say our second son wouldn’t have epilepsy (so far so good). No one plans on having an unhealthy child but as a parent you need to be prepared for it to happen.

The issue is when you have a child you need to be prepared to care for that child from birth on, no matter what the circumstances and some times those circumstances can be grim. You can’t take it for granted that your child will be born healthy and everything will work out. Life happens; you need to be prepared for it.

 

[SamH]

It is beyond amazing that people think they can know such a thing.

But apparently you do?

 

[maryjk]

Is that supposed to be first and foremost?

No, but it is part of it. Why else would sex result in children

Procreating? In other words, you **have **to have kids.

Nope

Or you have to at least try? Or what?

Nope

It is sinful to have sex within a lawful and christian marriage if you are not planning to procreate?

It is not a sin. Why would you think it was?

As far as I am concerned, no church or religion has any business telling people what they can or cannot do with their sex lives within a marriage. No church or religion has any business telling people that they have to have kids. It’s not a sin to not have kids. There’s a whole bunch of people out there that should have never ever had any kids.

You are right. No CHURCH has any business telling anyone anything about their sex lives. On the other hand, it is God’s business.

The church isn’t saying anything about that fact. Of course the catholic church didn’t say much when Hitler was murdering the Jews, either. So, go figure.

Which tells me that you aren’t “ex-Catholic,” you are anti-Catholic. There are many articles on what the Catholic church did to help the Jews.

I have never had any regrets about quitting the Catholic church. And when I read some of the baloney on this forum, I can’t believe that anybody else can be bamboozled into being controlled by the nonsensical rules of the catholic church. And rules made up by a bunch of unmarried men to boot. Wake up people. Tell the church to stay out of the privacy and the sanctity of your marriage. Is the church going to give you the money to take care of a bunch of kids? Is the catholic church going to give your kids a free education in a nice private catholic school? I think not.

Maybe if you knew the real teachings of the Catholic church you wouldn’t have left. Instead you are bashing something you know nothing about.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I hate to say this, but I can’t believe that you guys are actually having a conversation like this. It has been years since I left the Catholic church. Even at that time, I never realized that the church had so much control over what a married couple does within the privacy of their marriage. So, it’s not enough that you get properly married within the church in order to have a sexual relationship with the person you love. No, apparently you have some strict guidelines as to how and when you can have sex within that marriage. The church dictates that a married couple must have procreation in mind when they are having sex. Is that supposed to be first and foremost? Procreating? In other words, you have to have kids. Or you have to at least try? Or what? It is sinful to have sex within a lawful and christian marriage if you are not planning to procreate?

As far as I am concerned, no church or religion has any business telling people what they can or cannot do with their sex lives within a marriage. No church or religion has any business telling people that they have to have kids. It’s not a sin to not have kids. There’s a whole bunch of people out there that should have never ever had any kids. The church isn’t saying anything about that fact. Of course the catholic church didn’t say much when Hitler was murdering the Jews, either. So, go figure.

I have never had any regrets about quitting the Catholic church. And when I read some of the baloney on this forum, I can’t believe that anybody else can be bamboozled into being controlled by the nonsensical rules of the catholic church. And rules made up by a bunch of unmarried men to boot. Wake up people. Tell the church to stay out of the privacy and the sanctity of your marriage. Is the church going to give you the money to take care of a bunch of kids? Is the catholic church going to give your kids a free education in a nice private catholic school? I think not.

It has nothing to do with “church rules and laws”.
It has to do with morality - based on the rather “simplistic” 10 Commandments… which are the foundation for all denominations of Christianity and Judaism.
It has to do with the fact that THE CHURCH is the *INSTITUTION *of MARRIAGE - so, uh, YEAH, the church CAN define the SACRAMENTAL nature of Marriage… otherwise, what is marriage based on? A contract at your local county clerk of court? Now THAT’s special.

 

[Tanner9188]

Looking for some feedback:

As newlyweds, my husband and I are thinking about the timing of starting a family. We are practicing NFP and we LOVE it…what a beautiful testament of love to give to each other.

For those who have been married/discerned starting a family… do you think that simply needing time to settle into marriage and figure out finances is a “serious reason” to postpone? What made you decide to begin having children?

Thanks!

My wife and I waited 10 years before we had children; we have been married 19 years. The advantage is you are more financially secure, secure in the marriage and more practical wisdom (hopefully). The downside to waiting is you have less energy as you age. I’m 43 and have a 4 & 9 year old.

Using the method you are using, may not be your decision as to the timing. Good luck and God bless in whatever you decide; for like everything else in life their are advantges and disavantages; exception: The Lord!

 

[petsr4ever]

Tell me, where in the 10 commandments does it say you have to have kids? And where in the 10 commandments does it say it is immoral to have sex within marriage if you don’t intend to procreate? There is nothing in the 10 commandments that even comes close. Nothing.

 

[kage_ar]

Tell me, where in the 10 commandments does it say you have to have kids? And where in the 10 commandments does it say it is immoral to have sex within marriage if you don’t intend to procreate? There is nothing in the 10 commandments that even comes close. Nothing.

God’s law is far more than the 10 Commandments.

 

[kage_ar]

The Catechism uses a more precise term - “Just Reason”. Reading this section, praying about it and discussion between the spouses as well as each spouse with his/her confessor will guide you to know what reasons are just.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#2367

2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts, criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.156

This is the quote I referenced, it was on the first page of this thread. Bold and color added

 

[Em_in_FL]

Tell me, where in the 10 commandments does it say you have to have kids? And where in the 10 commandments does it say it is immoral to have sex within marriage if you don’t intend to procreate? There is nothing in the 10 commandments that even comes close. Nothing.

I encourage you to read the ENTIRE section on the 6th Commandment (especially section III - #2360 and down) in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art6.shtml

 

[petsr4ever]

“In the catechism of the Catholic church”. That written by man.

Like I said before, the church has no business getting involved in the sexual life of a married couple.

I suppose if a couple can’t have children for medical reasons, they should then abstain from having sex due to the fact that procreation isn’t possible? Or maybe they shouldn’t get married at all, if they can’t have kids?

Live in reality.

 

[kage_ar]

“In the catechism of the Catholic church”. That written by man…

No, written by the leaders of the Church that was started by Jesus, that is protected from teaching error in faith or morals.

Like I said before, the church has no business getting involved in the sexual life of a married couple…

God is God of everything or nothing at all. I have no other gods before Him, he is Lord of every aspect of my life.

I suppose if a couple can’t have children for medical reasons, they should then abstain from having sex due to the fact that procreation isn’t possible? Or maybe they shouldn’t get married at all, if they can’t have kids?

.

We Christians believe in a God of Miracles, God who can give life to the barren couple should that be in his divine plan. It is our job to accept that life with love.

Prayers that you will find Jesus again!

 

[grandfather]

“In the catechism of the Catholic church”. That written by man.

Like I said before, the church has no business getting involved in the sexual life of a married couple.

I suppose if a couple can’t have children for medical reasons, they should then abstain from having sex due to the fact that procreation isn’t possible? Or maybe they shouldn’t get married at all, if they can’t have kids?

Live in reality.

Pets,
It is clear that the Catholic religion is folly to you. You don’t get it. You can’t understand why people would embrace its teachings. Based on some of the things you say it is clear that you are ignorant of Catholicism, but that is not relevant. You will live according to what makes sense to you, choosing your path in life. We all do that. What makes sense to Catholics makes no sense to you. You will follow your own path to wherever it will take you. Best wishes to you. I sincerely hope you have the wisdom to guide your steps well.

 

[petsr4ever]

Now that was the most sensible answer I have ever gotten.

 

[grandfather]

Now that was the most sensible answer I have ever gotten.

Maybe this will also make sense. The people in this discussion are Cathoilcs who are looking at their lives and marriages through Catholic eyes, from a Catholic perspective. It may not make any sense to you, but you decided to chime in and deride them and the way they look at life. You are in a different space.

They are thinking and talking about the way they will live their private lives. Suppose they took it upon themselves to tell you the way you look at your sex life was ridiculous and you should change your ways?