Newlywed With Marital Chastity Question

[annie17on12]

The last few times I posted, I was in a panic because I was unable to consummate my marriage. Gladly, I can say this problem has been resolved. However, another problem has arisen. I am so tense about the rules of marital chasity that I can’t feel happy or positive during the act with my husband. I had originally thought the only rule was that the man has to finish in the woman (as stated in the book Holy Sex). But, reading this forum, I have become increasingly confused. One threat says one thing while another contradicts what I just read.

So, my current concern is that if in the middle of the act if it becomes very uncomfortable for me, is it moral to finish later, or do I have to suck it up and finish right then despite not feeling turned on? Also, if my husband and I are fully dressed can we have intense make-out sessions or is this only reserved for foreplay? Lastly, is it immoral to "bear-down after intercourse in order to clean up or is it considered a sin? I feel like there are so many rules that I can’t wrap my head around all of them.

Thank you for your answers.

 

[Mamanurse]

If intercourse is uncomfortable, I would say something to your husband. You should not have to be in pain. As for serious make out sessions…I laughed a little only because once you have kids the only time you have for any make out is for foreplay. You are married, kissing your husband is your right, but I honestly don’t see why since that usually leads to sex anyway. And lastly, “bearing down” is fine as long as you aren’t intentionally trying to rid yourself of his semen for contraceptive reasons.

As long as you are being open to life, try to enjoy this season of your life with your new husband. Before you know it little ones will be keeping you up at night and you will wonder where this time went.

 

[pensmama87]

If intercourse is uncomfortable, I would say something to your husband. You should not have to be in pain. As for serious make out sessions…I laughed a little only because once you have kids the only time you have for any make out is for foreplay. You are married, kissing your husband is your right, but I honestly don’t see why since that usually leads to sex anyway. And lastly, “bearing down” is fine as long as you aren’t intentionally trying to rid yourself of his semen for contraceptive reasons.

As long as you are being open to life, try to enjoy this season of your life with your new husband. Before you know it little ones will be keeping you up at night and you will wonder where this time went.

Yes to all of this!

Have fun!!!

 

[annie17on12]

I guess I have just read before that other posters here were told by their priest that they had to finish the act even if they were experiencing discomfort. However, in my mind if a woman is experiencing discomfort, then the sex has become against her will and this seems very close to (if not already) rape. I would have expected a priest of all people to be more understanding.

 

[AdamP88]

I’ve also been reading Holy Sex as I’m getting married. I had never realised that there is actually little to no guidelines or restrictions when it comes to marital sex. Obviously there is the rule of the man finishing inside the woman within the wider context of the act. But there seems to be nothing against oral stimulation or other activities (within reason).

As for feeling pain in the middle of intercourse, I don’t think many priests nowadays would advise you to “suck it up”. I certainly don’t know any who would. A loving husband will understand if you need to stop in the middle and will be interested in your pleasure and comfort.

God bless.

 

[1ke]

I guess I have just read before that other posters here were told by their priest that they had to finish the act even if they were experiencing discomfort. However, in my mind if a woman is experiencing discomfort, then the sex has become against her will and this seems very close to (if not already) rape. I would have expected a priest of all people to be more understanding.

People say all sorts of things-- it’s the internet.

I’m going to recommend that you stop seeking out information on the internet on this topic and stop reading random posts, blogs, and whatever. You’ve read a book by a recognized Catholic author. That should be all you need.

Be at peace. It sounds like you have a sensitive conscience, and asking questions on this topic here is NOT going to help it because you are going to get more of the same-- a half dozen different opinions (and that’s all they are) on the matter.

Yes it’s fine to stop if you are uncomfortable. Yes, it’s fine to bear down and clean up (in fact that is required in most NFP instructions). Yes, it is fine to “make out” with your husband.

 

[E_7]

If a woman feels pain during intercourse, it is more likely due to dryness down there. Try to do a lot of foreplay and touching, tell your husband to help you get really wet before he puts it in. In case of a virgin married woman, it will continue to hurt until she gets used to it (at least for some). I had pain during intercourse no matter how wet I got because I was a virgin. My practicing Catholic gynecologist at the time in Massachusetts advised me to get some tampons from thin to thick for some minutes daily until my body got used to it, but I never tried it.

 

[jilly4ski]

I guess I have just read before that other posters here were told by their priest that they had to finish the act even if they were experiencing discomfort. However, in my mind if a woman is experiencing discomfort, then the sex has become against her will and this seems very close to (if not already) rape. I would have expected a priest of all people to be more understanding.

First, that is extreme don’t you think? One person experiencing discomfort is hardly rape, especially if one doesn’t say anything informing your spouse about the discomfort. Let’s try to keep some perspective.

Second, why are you listening to random posters on CAF? Not to disparage CAF posters, but you don’t have any idea of that poster’s correctness, or even if the poster is relying actual priestly advice, or if you or the poster are misunderstanding the advice. Especially since you seem confused about this subject, you should listen to authoritative sources, or at least sources which have been certified to teach no error (look for books with a nihil obstat imptimatur).

 

[AdamP88]

People say all sorts of things-- it’s the internet.

I’m going to recommend that you stop seeking out information on the internet on this topic and stop reading random posts, blogs, and whatever. You’ve read a book by a recognized Catholic author. That should be all you need.

Be at peace. It sounds like you have a sensitive conscience, and asking questions on this topic here is NOT going to help it because you are going to get more of the same-- a half dozen different opinions (and that’s all they are) on the matter.

Yes it’s fine to stop if you are uncomfortable. Yes, it’s fine to bear down and clean up (in fact that is required in most NFP instructions). Yes, it is fine to “make out” with your husband.

This advice is right. Especially the bold. 1ke is usually spot on.

 

[MaryT777]

People say all sorts of things-- it’s the internet.

I’m going to recommend that you stop seeking out information on the internet on this topic and stop reading random posts, blogs, and whatever. You’ve read a book by a recognized Catholic author. That should be all you need.

Be at peace. It sounds like you have a sensitive conscience, and asking questions on this topic here is NOT going to help it because you are going to get more of the same-- a half dozen different opinions (and that’s all they are) on the matter.

Yes it’s fine to stop if you are uncomfortable. Yes, it’s fine to bear down and clean up (in fact that is required in most NFP instructions). Yes, it is fine to “make out” with your husband.

Yes, be at peace is certainly great advice. The internet searching seems to have given you much anxiety and that is certainly not helping your situation. If you’ve read a Catholic book by a good author use that as your guide and enjoy getting to know your husband in an intimate manner together as a couple.

Prayers your way for this to happen in your marriage.

 

[jaimeleglise]

If you are in pain, your doctor may be able to help. You could also try buying a tube of lubricant at the drugstore.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Yeah, it’s kind of a dichotomy, isn’t it.

We are rightly called upon to be pure of thought, custody of the eyes, etc.

But under the proper conditions, then it’s quite alright … even necessary.

A bunch of us had been deployed overseas for an extended period of time.

One of the married guys wrote to his wife and said that he hoped she would meet the plane when when we returned.

She wrote back and said he had better be the first guy off the plane.

Pray for the right sense of humor.

 

[Lea101]

First, that is extreme don’t you think? One person experiencing discomfort is hardly rape, especially if one doesn’t say anything informing your spouse about the discomfort. Let’s try to keep some perspective.

Second, why are you listening to random posters on CAF? Not to disparage CAF posters, but you don’t have any idea of that poster’s correctness, or even if the poster is relying actual priestly advice, or if you or the poster are misunderstanding the advice. Especially since you seem confused about this subject, you should listen to authoritative sources, or at least sources which have been certified to teach no error (look for books with a nihil obstat imptimatur).

I don’t think that’s what the poster was trying to say. But like if your wife is not enjoying it/found it painful and most of the time, she would probably want to stop and you continue, it can be quite close to rape??

That’s how I saw it

 

[Lea101]

And like the other posters, relax and have fun

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The last few times I posted, I was in a panic because I was unable to consummate my marriage. Gladly, I can say this problem has been resolved. However, another problem has arisen. I am so tense about the rules of marital chasity that I can’t feel happy or positive during the act with my husband. I had originally thought the only rule was that the man has to finish in the woman (as stated in the book Holy Sex). But, reading this forum, I have become increasingly confused. One threat says one thing while another contradicts what I just read.

So, my current concern is that if in the middle of the act if it becomes very uncomfortable for me, is it moral to finish later, or do I have to suck it up and finish right then despite not feeling turned on? Also, if my husband and I are fully dressed can we have intense make-out sessions or is this only reserved for foreplay? Lastly, is it immoral to "bear-down after intercourse in order to clean up or is it considered a sin? I feel like there are so many rules that I can’t wrap my head around all of them.

Thank you for your answers.

If you feel like there are so many rules then you are listening to the wrong people. The marital act is not so complicated as you make it out to be. It is quite easy to be within the bounds of the church with your intent.

 

[Bookcat]

I guess I have just read before that other posters here were told by their priest that they had to finish the act even if they were experiencing discomfort. However, in my mind if a woman is experiencing discomfort, then the sex has become against her will and this seems very close to (if not already) rape. I would have expected a priest of all people to be more understanding.

Yes the marital act is to completed - tis the nature of the act. Now could it happen that something happens where this becomes not possible? The house is burning down…the kids wake up and need you…(thus there may be a delay in the completion).

Yes things like that may happen - but those are exceptions that create a kind of impossibility. And there may be some serious pain that may happen and things may not be able to proceed. Needing medical attention.

Normal discomfort (not some serious medical problem) is something it seems to me that one would work through in good moral ways. If ones mind is all distracted and worried this can very much effect the act - so work on overcoming such. Focus on your husband.

(Also the term “rape” is not really the term to use here.

In marriage the husband has given himself and the right to the marital act to his wife and the wife to the husband. While each is to respect the other and lovingly discuss the frequency etc (and be understanding when the other is tired etc) - they are also to generiously live their marriage (even when they do not feel like it).

There can be for example many times when the husband does not want to engage in the act - but the the wife wants him to - such as in trying actively to conceive. He can not say he is being “forced” against his will - indeed he gave his will -his consent at the wedding now he is living that marriage. Even though he does not feel like it and it is very difficult at the moment to engage in the marital act so often.)

Yes seek out good orthodox Catholic sources - not every reply in this forum is going to be such…

 

[AdamP88]

Yes the marital act is to completed - tis the nature of the act. Now could it happen that something happens where this becomes not possible? The house is burning down…the kids wake up and need you…(thus there may be a delay in the completion).

Yes things like that may happen - but those are exceptions that create a kind of impossibility. And there may be some serious pain that may happen and things may not be able to proceed. Needing medical attention.

Normal discomfort (not some serious medical problem) is something it seems to me that one would work through in good moral ways. If ones mind is all distracted and worried this can very much effect the act - so work on overcoming such. Focus on your husband.

(Also the term “rape” is not really the term to use here.

In marriage the husband has given himself and the right to the marital act to his wife and the wife to the husband. While each is to respect the other and lovingly discuss the frequency etc (and be understanding when the other is tired etc) - they are also to generiously live their marriage (even when they do not feel like it).

There can be for example many times when the husband does not want to engage in the act - but the the wife wants him to - such as in trying actively to conceive. He can not say he is being “forced” against his will - indeed he gave his will -his consent at the wedding now he is living that marriage. Even though he does not feel like it and it is very difficult at the moment to engage in the marital act so often.)

Yes seek out good orthodox Catholic sources - not every reply in this forum is going to be such…

There is such a thing as marital rape. I hope you’re not implying that the consent to be married is the same as consent to have sexual relations “anytime, anywhere” so to speak. That is not what the church teaches.

 

[e_c]

The last few times I posted, I was in a panic because I was unable to consummate my marriage. Gladly, I can say this problem has been resolved. However, another problem has arisen. I am so tense about the rules of marital chasity that I can’t feel happy or positive during the act with my husband. I had originally thought the only rule was that the man has to finish in the woman (as stated in the book Holy Sex). But, reading this forum, I have become increasingly confused. One threat says one thing while another contradicts what I just read.

So, my current concern is that if in the middle of the act if it becomes very uncomfortable for me, is it moral to finish later, or do I have to suck it up and finish right then despite not feeling turned on? Also, if my husband and I are fully dressed can we have intense make-out sessions or is this only reserved for foreplay? Lastly, is it immoral to "bear-down after intercourse in order to clean up or is it considered a sin? I feel like there are so many rules that I can’t wrap my head around all of them.

Thank you for your answers.

Sometimes things get lost in translation… there are all these distinctions that can be misunderstood and make the good or neutral look evil.

1. You aren’t bound to finish intercourse… What is wrong is to intend not to finish intercourse before starting. (See the difference?) It is also wrong to be “casual” about it - as in, “Maybe we’ll finish, maybe not, whatever, it doesn’t matter.” Once you begin to use the organs, the intent should be to finish, but if there is something that interrupts or changes the situation, then there is no binding law to continue.
2. Yes, provided it does not become auto-eroticism, individually or mutually… If someone is trying to stimulate himself/herself, even without the intent to climax, then there is a problem. NOTE: this does NOT mean that if arousal occurs, one has become auto-erotic, even though such arousal is enjoyed. You know you’ve started to engage in auto-eroticism when you begin actively trying to stimulate the ORGANS through your actions, even if indirectly, and there is an intent NOT to carry out the marital act. This seems like something very subtle, and it is on paper, but it is not in reality… You easily know. If you can’t p(name removed by moderator)oint the experience, it means you’ve not been engaging in it, which is good. (AGAIN: just because arousal occurs in the organs DOES NOT mean that it is auto-erotic… it is a byproduct of emotion.) If there is intentional arousal in the organs and it is unclear whether this encounter might lead to intercourse, as soon as it becomes a decision that must be made for whatever reason, or climax is about to be reached anyway, that will determine the rightful course of action: if the answer is yes, then it is now simply foreplay. If the answer is no, then it will become auto-eroticism. Yes, sometimes things happen too quickly and a mistake is made (more an issue for men), and this is not to be made too much of, provided there is a will to be more careful about it in the future.

It is different with persons who aren’t married, because of what occurs in the will (morose delectation of fornicating). But that’s for another thread maybe.

1. As long as the act has finished where it is supposed to, and there is no intent against procreation, and whatever you are doing is not likely to destroy all reasonable chances of conception, then it is permissible.

Does this help?

 

[Bookcat]

There is such a thing as marital rape. I hope you’re not implying that the consent to be married is the same as consent to have sexual relations “anytime, anywhere” so to speak. That is not what the church teaches.

The reality of marriage includes the right to marital relations.

Now are there reasonable serious reasons where that that may be withheld? Sure.

Is there a right to physically force the other to have relations? No. That is not the marital right but against the marriage.

Physically “forced sex” by a spouse though is better referred to as:

*Marital violence. *

Rape is a term more fitting outside of marriage (sort of like intercourse after marriage with another person is not fornication but adultery…)

And it can also be the case that such marital violence is a greater sin than say a rape. For one owes ones spouse love etc. Tis against the Sacrament of Marriage.

But this is all sort of an aside to the OP question - so let us leave this otherwise the thread will turn into a different subject and get way of track. And this is not really what the OP is asking about.

 

[AdamP88]

The reality of marriage includes the right to marital relations.

Now are there reasonable serious reasons where that that may be withheld? Sure.

Is there a right to physically force the other to have relations? No. That is not the marital right but against the marriage.

Physically “forced sex” by a spouse though is better referred to as:

*Marital violence. *

Rape is a term more fitting outside of marriage (sort of like intercourse after marriage with another person is not fornication but adultery…)

And it can also be the case that such marital violence is a greater sin than say a rape. For one owes ones spouse love etc. Tis against the Sacrament of Marriage.

But this is all sort of an aside to the OP question - so let us leave this otherwise the thread will turn into a different subject and get way of track. And this is not really what the OP is asking about.

“Sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.”

No…rape is sex without the consent of one person. It can definitely happen marriage.