Newlywed With Marital Chastity Question

[Bookcat]

No…rape is sex without the consent of one person. It can definitely happen marriage.

Yes I understand your using the secular definition.

But again I note what I noted… and this is not the place discuss this really. Would take us off topic.

 

[oldrover]

The last few times I posted, I was in a panic because I was unable to consummate my marriage. Gladly, I can say this problem has been resolved. However, another problem has arisen. I am so tense about the rules of marital chasity that I can’t feel happy or positive during the act with my husband. I had originally thought the only rule was that the man has to finish in the woman (as stated in the book Holy Sex). But, reading this forum, I have become increasingly confused. One threat says one thing while another contradicts what I just read.

So, my current concern is that if in the middle of the act if it becomes very uncomfortable for me, is it moral to finish later, or do I have to suck it up and finish right then despite not feeling turned on? Also, if my husband and I are fully dressed can we have intense make-out sessions or is this only reserved for foreplay? Lastly, is it immoral to "bear-down after intercourse in order to clean up or is it considered a sin? I feel like there are so many rules that I can’t wrap my head around all of them.

Thank you for your answers.

Wow… sorry you’re struggling with all this. You should be enjoying each other, not consulting the Catechism during. As others have said, the only real rule is that the man has to finish inside the woman. You shouldn’t have to endure pain, and I’m sure your hubby doesn’t want you to suffer every time you two fool around.

It may be a lubrication issue, plus it may be that you’re just so tense and nervous that you’re tightening up. One thing that can solve the latter is for your hubby to spend more time on you first… massaging, light tickling, kissing, licking… perhaps even satisfying you ‘orally’ or ‘manually’ before you two have intercourse. That would hopefully relax you and make regular sex more comfortable for you.

Paraphrasing what Jerry Seinfeld once said regarding sex, men are firemen… ready at a moment’s notice! Women, sexually, are more like fire… alluring, hypnotic, mysterious… but they require time and certain conditions to go from smouldering to a roaring blaze. Maybe you just need your fire tended a bit more beforehand.

Stay calm, have fun, love your hubby, and God bless.

 

[e_c]

If there is intentional arousal in the organs and it is unclear whether this encounter might lead to intercourse, as soon as it becomes a decision that must be made for whatever reason, or climax is about to be reached anyway, that will determine the rightful course of action: if the answer is yes, then it is now simply foreplay. If the answer is no, then it will become auto-eroticism. Yes, sometimes things happen too quickly and a mistake is made (more an issue for men), and this is not to be made too much of, provided there is a will to be more careful about it in the future.

I want to back off of this just a little bit actually. It seems that there must at least be a habitual presumption that “when we touch each other this way, we are preparing for the marital act.” Habitual means “ongoing,” not “usually” or “following a pattern.”

Something would then have to intervene to stop it from continuing, like, “Oh I have to get dinner ready.”

New thread coming on this…

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Got to thinking about this … new day today … been married 45 years.

How to describe this without getting pornographic.

Explore one another.

Learn by experimenting … what does he like … what do you like. Do you both know what you like?

There is a pair of photographs. Shows an electrical machine with one switch and a light bulb and that is “the man”. There is another electrical device with fifty switches and dials and knobs and adjustments and a hundred blinking lights … and that is “the woman”.

Anyway, thought that was humorous.

 

[pensmama87]

Got to thinking about this … new day today … been married 45 years.

How to describe this without getting pornographic.

Explore one another.

Learn by experimenting … what does he like … what do you like. Do you both know what you like?

There is a pair of photographs. Shows an electrical machine with one switch and a light bulb and that is “the man”. There is another electrical device with fifty switches and dials and knobs and adjustments and a hundred blinking lights … and that is “the woman”.

Anyway, thought that was humorous.

Another analogy I’ve heard is the woman as a crock pot. Takes a while to warm up, but once it’s hot, it’s hot!

As far as preparing, for the woman it can help to “plan ahead.” It’s not lustful if you take a minute during your day to fluff up your pillows nicely, maybe put out “something nice to wear,” maybe light a scented candle to make the room smell nice (I am not a huge fan of essential oils, but diffusers are really good for ‘setting the mood,’ so to speak.)

That way you’re already primed to relax and enjoy.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Another analogy I’ve heard is the woman as a crock pot. Takes a while to warm up, but once it’s hot, it’s hot!

As far as preparing, for the woman it can help to “plan ahead.” It’s not lustful if you take a minute during your day to fluff up your pillows nicely, maybe put out “something nice to wear,” maybe light a scented candle to make the room smell nice (I am not a huge fan of essential oils, but diffusers are really good for ‘setting the mood,’ so to speak.)

That way you’re already primed to relax and enjoy.

Think about what … in general … turns you on.

What kind of music.

What kind of art.

What kind of nature.

What kind of food.

What kind of touching.

Revisit the eating scene in the movie “Tom Jones”.

Was at a “plein air” … outdoor … art exhibit. Everybody was setting up. I was wandering around … being merely the driver and loader. AKA … “a patron of the arts” … and some woman … didn’t know her … had done a lot of work on sepia paper. All I said was that her work reminded me of Leonardo DaVinci. She got so excited that I had to get out of there.

Spent 21 years in a parish counseling role.

You would be shocked, shocked, I tell you … at what some folks visualize to mess themselves up … and it’s not necessary nor required.

Pray a lot.

Thank God for a great day.

For a parking spot.

For a wonderful mango.

AND also, thank God for your adversities.

They may be blessings in disguise.

Lord, thank you for this adversity.

 

[e_c]

I’ve amended my first post in this thread and have asked the Mod to delete it, because it is a little ambiguous. Here’s the edited version, with bold edits:

The last few times I posted, I was in a panic because I was unable to consummate my marriage. Gladly, I can say this problem has been resolved. However, another problem has arisen. I am so tense about the rules of marital chasity that I can’t feel happy or positive during the act with my husband. I had originally thought the only rule was that the man has to finish in the woman (as stated in the book Holy Sex). But, reading this forum, I have become increasingly confused. One threat says one thing while another contradicts what I just read.

So, my current concern is that if in the middle of the act if it becomes very uncomfortable for me, is it moral to finish later, or do I have to suck it up and finish right then despite not feeling turned on? Also, if my husband and I are fully dressed can we have intense make-out sessions or is this only reserved for foreplay? Lastly, is it immoral to "bear-down after intercourse in order to clean up or is it considered a sin? I feel like there are so many rules that I can’t wrap my head around all of them.

Thank you for your answers.

Sometimes things get lost in translation… there are all these distinctions that can be misunderstood and make the good or neutral look evil.

1. You aren’t bound to finish intercourse… What is wrong is to intend not to finish intercourse before starting. (See the difference?) It is also wrong to be “casual” about it - as in, “Maybe we’ll finish, maybe not, whatever, it doesn’t matter.” Once you begin to use the organs, the intent should be to finish, but if there is something that interrupts or changes the situation, then there is no binding law to continue.
2. Yes, provided it does not become auto-eroticism, individually or mutually… If someone is trying to stimulate himself/herself or his/her spouse, even without the intent to **cause **climax, then there is a problem. *NOTE: this does NOT mean that if arousal occurs, one has become auto-erotic, even though such arousal is enjoyed. *You know you’ve started to engage in auto-eroticism when you begin actively trying to stimulate the ORGANS through your actions, even if indirectly if there is an explicit intention to arouse the organs, and there is an intent NOT to carry out the marital act. This seems like something very subtle, and it is on paper, but it is not in reality… You easily know. If you can’t p(name removed by moderator)oint the experience, it means you’ve not been engaging in it, which is good. (AGAIN: just because arousal occurs in the organs DOES NOT mean that it is auto-erotic… it is a byproduct of emotion.) If there is intentional arousal in the organs and it is unclear whether this encounter might lead to intercourse – provided that that arousal is at least intended to dispose to intercourse (rather than being “for its own sake,” as in, “I just want him/her to feel aroused because of the pleasure, and that is all”), as soon as it becomes a decision that must be made for whatever reason, or climax is about to be reached anyway, that will determine the rightful course of action: if the answer is yes, then it is now simply foreplay. If the answer is no, then it will become auto-eroticism. Yes, sometimes things happen too quickly and a mistake is made (more an issue for men), and this is not to be made too much of, provided there is a will to be more careful about it in the future. **Couples ought to have a habitual intention - as in, an ongoing intention that is always there - that when they intentionally arouse each other they are trying to prepare for intercourse through that same arousal… NOT for a later occasion, such as “after work” or something similar which would entirely reset the system. Other means of increasing desire must be used… intentional stimulation of the organs is off-limits in this case - which again, is distinct from emotional arousal which would lead to physical arousal. It is basically only through directly manipulating the organs that this happens, or through an explicit intention to cause them to become aroused as previously noted.

This is how it seems to me. I could be wrong… but err on the side of virtue, not the side of vice.**

It is different with persons who aren’t married, because of what occurs in the will (morose delectation of fornicating). But that’s for another thread maybe.

1. As long as the act has finished where it is supposed to, and there is no intent against procreation, and whatever you are doing is not likely to destroy all reasonable chances of conception, then it is permissible.

Does this help?