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ConfusedTim
Guest
Any form of sexual abuse is horrific and we must all pray for the victims.
The Catholic Church is a place of sinners and there is no getting away from the fact that it will always contain an element of people who we wish were more Christ like but arent.
The protestant churches have exactly the same problem as can be seen from the attached link which documents 838 protestant ministers who have abused children.
reformation.com/
The Catholic Church is a place of sinners and there is no getting away from the fact that it will always contain an element of people who we wish were more Christ like but arent.
The protestant churches have exactly the same problem as can be seen from the attached link which documents 838 protestant ministers who have abused children.
reformation.com/
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schaick
Guest
What this report doesn’t tell us is how was the event handled?
**Was there a cover up? **
We know all people sin because of that sin innocents are terribly hurt.
The **cover up by leaders in the organizatons **can not be tolerated.
**838 protestant ministers ** is this number proportioned to the number of Catholic 400,000 priests worldwide?
Your thoughts:
Do you think there would be less abuse if priests could marry?
The number of priests accussed- 4,450
cnn.com/2004/US/02/16/church.abuse/
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tweetymom
Guest
Noo a pedophile is a pedophile married or not. And always will be.
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mark_a
Guest
.
I don’t understand this. Could you clarify?
Does the Holy Spirit mislead? Can he tell you one thing and the Pope another?
Where I have a more difficult time is obeying.
Join the club. It’s the Church.
Who is going to teach, who’s going to lead?
Take a stand. Call a spade a spade. Which teachings are incorrect?
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Dokimas
Guest
Where I have a more difficult time is obeying.
Join the club. It’s the Church.
Who is going to teach, who’s going to lead?
Take a stand. Call a spade a spade. Which teachings are incorrect?
You did not copy and paste in context so no I can’t clarify because I don’t know what I was responding to.
The Holy Spirit **DOES NOT ** mislead. We, and I mean all Christians, don’t always follow perfectly. It is OUR problem not the Holy Spirit’s. The Holy Spirit could tell me to go to church so-and-such and tell the pope to go to the CC. Surely. I doubt if He would tell me church so-and-such is of Him and the pope church so-and-such is not of Him.
Whomever is gifted to teach should teach and whomever is gifted to lead should lead.
Ask me what teachings are IMO incorrect and I’ll tell you. If you’ve been following my posts, I don’t think I’ve shied away from sharing my opinions on matters of differences between my understandings and the teachings of the CC. So go ahead and ask.
The church can do nothing for an obedient person. We stand or fall on our own. We obey or disobey on our own. A church can provide avenues to be obedient, sure thing, but the ultimate decision is mine. I can’t pass blame to anyone or any church for my disobedience.
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Priests marrying wouldn’t eliminate the problem but I agree it would give pedophiles less of a haven in which to hide. Right now nobody questions a man living the celibate lifestyle to become a priest because that priest has no choice at all. But if the man had a choice to be married, we’d probably have a better pool of men, period, with less homosexuals and pedophiles. I’m a minority in that I’d prefer a married priesthood. I liked it when I was an Anglican having a priest who had a wife and two kids who understood and could identify with us all as married couples. I find a high amount of priests whom I meet in the Catholic Church to be VERY effeminate and possibly gay. Out of our five priests, two of them are very effeminate. One that left recently was very very effeminate. And the bishop in our diocese is one of the most gay-acting men I’ve ever seen. One of the priests on our local catholic channel has the most homosexual mannerisms I’ve ever seen. I’d like to see less of this stuff and more married priests someday. I don’t think it’s going to happen though for $$$ and logistical reasons.
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Sherry_G
Guest
"Some Catholics need to stop pointing the finger of blame away from their own church and follow the example of this guy… "
What is your church? I tried to find this guy on google. Usually our priests do not refer to themselves as “Reverend” but as “Father”. Just wondering…
Additionally, what is the point of all this fingerpointing and nay-saying? Why are you on Catholic Answers and what is it that you hope to accomplish here? We Catholics all pray for our separated brothers and sisters that the Holy Spirit may guide you back home to the one true church of Jesus Christ so that we may all be one.
What is your church? I tried to find this guy on google. Usually our priests do not refer to themselves as “Reverend” but as “Father”. Just wondering…
Additionally, what is the point of all this fingerpointing and nay-saying? Why are you on Catholic Answers and what is it that you hope to accomplish here? We Catholics all pray for our separated brothers and sisters that the Holy Spirit may guide you back home to the one true church of Jesus Christ so that we may all be one.
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Glassman96
Guest
If one is going to dedicate himself to the priesthood knowing that he can’t have sex, then they need to overcome their sexual urges. Jesus will help you overcome your flesh, after all He is “The Way”. If you can’t control your sexual urges, then do as Paul says and get married. Dedicating yourself to God and serving others is a great responsibility, why risk losing your spirituality over giving in to the flesh? If one sees themself getting ready to do something immoral, then call on Jesus or seek some guidance from someone that can help. There’s a story about a monk in one of John Cassian’s books that threw away 15 years of spiritual growth because he gave into the flesh. A few minutes of pleasure is not worth it.
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mark_a
Guest
Ask me what teachings are IMO incorrect and I’ll tell you. If you’ve been following my posts, I don’t think I’ve shied away from sharing my opinions on matters of differences between my understandings and the teachings of the CC. So go ahead and ask.Are there any false Catholic teachings regarding moral theology?
Absolutely.
What if, for example, someone goes to a pro-choice church and whole-heartedly believes in that particular church’s pro-choice stance concerning abortion (there are many, you know), and decides to use abortion as a means of birth control. Is abortion not wrong? How is this person disobedient if she aborts?
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BernadetteM
Guest
As a former Episcopalian I knew several priests who were gay, some with their partners attending the parish, the Anglican Communion has their own scandal of pedophiles.
I can’t verify if this is correct, but due to the sexual explosion in the 60’s I think that there were many more priests ordained in the Catholic Church who were homosexual, but from what I have read this problem is being corrected as much as possible. This is not true in the Episcopal church.
Also in Protestant churches, there are probably as many homosexuals and pedophiles as in the Catholic Church. They hide it well most being married, and because if found out they just leave the church and go to another and because these churches are identified as not being wealthy, it removes one of the main reasons for a person to go after the accused whether guilty or not. I guess I have some problems with a person who waits 30 years to accuse a priest of abuse after this issue was all over the media and the lawsuits started. I am not denying that some are factual, but anyone can accuse someone of a crime without proof except for their word for it. Some of these accussations went back, I believ, 50 years and the person accused was long dead.
Whether your married or not has nothing to do with committing sexual abuse against children, teens, or women. Priests and ministers are just as human as the rest of society and although we would like to see them above reproach, we are all sinners in one way or another and there will always be these abusers in churches, schools, scouts or any organization where they can find their prey.
Look at our leadership today, I sometimes wonder if half of Congress were investigated if any of them would be free of the same abuses as you find in the general public.
Twenty some odd years ago the police did nothing to a man I know who molested a child. Also during the same time period doctors felt they could cure these sexual predators. We now know today that is not possible.
I am very angry with any Bishop who didn’t respond when they knew of abuse, and also with fellow Christian denominations where this goes on and no action is taken. I am a convert and when I was young attended several protestant churches and knew of many sexual abuses of one sort or another happening within the church. I don’t defend this abuse in any church or organization, just stating it happens where there are people no matter whether a Catholic parish or a protestant church etc.
Until the great scandal within the Catholic Church I don’t think that other denominations were doing anything about what was happening within their churches, but now are taking action.
I am also tired of this problem being brought up constantly on forums. It serves no real purpose and is usually brought up on CAF to prove the Catholic Church teaches error. Of course the OP who does this should really start checking out their own churches.
It is a pity that a few very evil people can make it impossible for a priest/minister to befriend children with honest intentions of affection and show Christ’s love for them for fear of being accused of doing evil.
If someone here thinks that I don’t understand how it feels to be a victim they are very very wrong. Because of my own situation I see things from a personal perspective and not from just hearing about it on the news.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
I can’t verify if this is correct, but due to the sexual explosion in the 60’s I think that there were many more priests ordained in the Catholic Church who were homosexual, but from what I have read this problem is being corrected as much as possible. This is not true in the Episcopal church.
Also in Protestant churches, there are probably as many homosexuals and pedophiles as in the Catholic Church. They hide it well most being married, and because if found out they just leave the church and go to another and because these churches are identified as not being wealthy, it removes one of the main reasons for a person to go after the accused whether guilty or not. I guess I have some problems with a person who waits 30 years to accuse a priest of abuse after this issue was all over the media and the lawsuits started. I am not denying that some are factual, but anyone can accuse someone of a crime without proof except for their word for it. Some of these accussations went back, I believ, 50 years and the person accused was long dead.
Whether your married or not has nothing to do with committing sexual abuse against children, teens, or women. Priests and ministers are just as human as the rest of society and although we would like to see them above reproach, we are all sinners in one way or another and there will always be these abusers in churches, schools, scouts or any organization where they can find their prey.
Look at our leadership today, I sometimes wonder if half of Congress were investigated if any of them would be free of the same abuses as you find in the general public.
Twenty some odd years ago the police did nothing to a man I know who molested a child. Also during the same time period doctors felt they could cure these sexual predators. We now know today that is not possible.
I am very angry with any Bishop who didn’t respond when they knew of abuse, and also with fellow Christian denominations where this goes on and no action is taken. I am a convert and when I was young attended several protestant churches and knew of many sexual abuses of one sort or another happening within the church. I don’t defend this abuse in any church or organization, just stating it happens where there are people no matter whether a Catholic parish or a protestant church etc.
Until the great scandal within the Catholic Church I don’t think that other denominations were doing anything about what was happening within their churches, but now are taking action.
I am also tired of this problem being brought up constantly on forums. It serves no real purpose and is usually brought up on CAF to prove the Catholic Church teaches error. Of course the OP who does this should really start checking out their own churches.
It is a pity that a few very evil people can make it impossible for a priest/minister to befriend children with honest intentions of affection and show Christ’s love for them for fear of being accused of doing evil.
If someone here thinks that I don’t understand how it feels to be a victim they are very very wrong. Because of my own situation I see things from a personal perspective and not from just hearing about it on the news.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
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Pilgrimage
Guest
But the CC has a structure that lends itself, not only to concealed abuse, but also to attack in a way the other churches don’t. It also has more members. In short, it is a victim of itself, so it has to re-look at itself and make the changes necessary. In England doctors can only carry out intimate examinations with a nurse/care worker present, this is to protect themselves from accusation and the patients from abuse.
But what everyone should remember is that pedophiles anywhere will go to extraordinary lengths to achieve access to children, they will even wait years. The more professional their position and the larger the organisation, the easier it is to conceal themselves. For example, the medical establishment is an easy place to indulge in perverted activity, as is Social Work and Teaching. Parents and children don’t have the tools to fight institutions because there is an element of authority and trust, there has to be for the professional job to work.
A calculated pedophile isn’t going to care about the reputation of the church.
God bless
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Pilgrimage
Guest
We had a husband and wife both training at the same time in our Parish, then they went off to their own Parish and their work has gone from strength to strength. They pray together, study together and look after their parish together (with more than one church), They have even had 3 children since leaving us (fruitful), but they are relentless in their ministry. Every life event becomes a part of their ministry.
The elderly love them, the children are well looked after, they connect to the young couples and families. No one considers the wife less of a priest than the husband, they just seem totally united, and because of this everyone in their Parish benefits in some way.
We should have nick named them Priscilla and Aquila!
God bless
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Roblox84
Guest
I guess what the priests need to ask themselves is how badly they want to serve the Lord? I believe there are some priests who just aren’t made for that kind of lifestyle and instead, they should just resign and not be tempted to commit any crimes. Every priest knows beforehand what they will be facing and if they can’t fathom the thought of it, they probably shouldn’t have become priests in the first place.
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Dokimas
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Pilgrimage
Guest
It’s no wonder he has to hold onto the saying ‘Be not afraid’ whilst people believe this. Not of you of course, but of God, because this in itself is an error of teaching (if this is what he teaches, which I very much doubt) The Bible is God’s Word, and it is The Word that became flesh, and it is The Word which teaches, rebukes, corrects and trains in righteousness.
Did you not receive The Holy Spirit when you were Baptized or confirmed, the one and the same Holy Spirit that the Pope has received?
Idolitary is extremely fearsome for a man who gets the position of Pope foisted on him because of his own deep faith. It’s fearsome ‘because’ he has a deeper faith and understanding.
God bless
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mark_a
Guest
Wow. Where to start, where to start? I’ll tell you what, I’ll just jump back in if I see you post in the moral theology part of this forum.
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These folks sincerely believe that they are led by the Holy Spirit. They, in fact, believe they are even more compassionate than the Catholics and other pro-life, pro-family churches. So I still have the dilemma of knowing whether it’s Dokima or, say, the SDA that is led by the Holy Spirit.
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mark_a
Guest
To whom it may concern:
Conditions that must be met for a papal statement to be infallible
Conditions that must be met for a papal statement to be infallible
- Must teach or in some way clarify
- Can’t contradict previous teachings
- Must involve faith and morals
- To be held by all
- Statement made of his own free will
- He must invoke the full authority of his office
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Greenbrier
Guest
Leaves quite a lot of room for debate about what, historically, has or has not been infallibly defined. The more qualifications imposed, the more room there is for interpretation.
There may be, among most Catholics, a general consensus about what, for example, Boniface VIII meant in Unam Sanctam and it can be spun to conform to these criteria, but if most Catholics knew about it they would probably dismiss it as an anachronism.
Which makes it interesting, because it tells me that even informed Catholics don;t really know how to press papal pronouncements through the matrix of these requirements. Rather than just arguing that it fails to meet one or more of them, they tend to say that anyone who is baptized is somehow subject to the Pope and therefore “in the church” in some mysterious way.
This is very bizarre, but for a people who believe that a thing can look, smell, taste, feel and have one nutritional or toxicological effect while actually really being something else entirely, I guess anything is possible.
There may be, among most Catholics, a general consensus about what, for example, Boniface VIII meant in Unam Sanctam and it can be spun to conform to these criteria, but if most Catholics knew about it they would probably dismiss it as an anachronism.
Which makes it interesting, because it tells me that even informed Catholics don;t really know how to press papal pronouncements through the matrix of these requirements. Rather than just arguing that it fails to meet one or more of them, they tend to say that anyone who is baptized is somehow subject to the Pope and therefore “in the church” in some mysterious way.
This is very bizarre, but for a people who believe that a thing can look, smell, taste, feel and have one nutritional or toxicological effect while actually really being something else entirely, I guess anything is possible.
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Pilgrimage
Guest
Dear friend,
I am sorry, but this is a nonsense.
Something that can’t contradict itself doesn’t need clarification and therefore does not need a Pope as it’s already there. It has been there for over 2,000 years, in The Word of God.
And as for free will, you can’t have it all ways, either he stands fully in God’s will or he doesn’t.
I just can’t get my head around this blind acceptance of teachings that are contrary to Christ’s teachings or the church He had in mind. It’s like a case of the Emperor’s New Clothes (see below).
We are taught to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength and yet there seems an endless stream of people who use these boards displaying a love for the church more than Jesus. It’s madness and can’t possibly be what the church wants. Jesus put Peter firmly behind Him when Peter thought he knew more than Jesus.(Mark 8) Therefore a man cannot be infallible because Peter was NOT Jesus, he was NOT in Jesus’ shoes and his place was behind Jesus all the way.
How did it happen, that Peter forgot his place?
Simon Peter also said to Jesus ‘You are Christ, the Son of the living God’, and it was because of this that Jesus declared him to be the rock on which his church would be built. People should be declaring and living Christ 1st and foremost, now more than ever. It should be Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus all the time, until people are left breathless. His name should be being heard on every street corner and every household. Believers should be actively and publicly encouraged to return to their Bibles and NOT be so reliant on once a week preaching.
It’s good that the CC love The Pope, your church, Mary and the saints so much, but you are being attacked so badly because you are not standing firm in your love of Christ and forgiveness. Instead the CC are trying to elevate the church at a time The LORD Jesus Christ alone should be being elevated. Jesus can take the attack and He can resolve what’s going on now, the church must have the ears to listen.
In the love of Christ those who are abused would do the right thing. In the fear of God, those who have jumped on the financial band wagon never would have. Satan is having a field day.
Catholics need to publicly love Jesus with their whole heart, mind, soul and strength at this time; they can go back to the art of venerating others later. No saint wants the church attacked as it is being at this time, and they would gladly take a back seat. This needs to be announced.
The Pope could ask for sacrifice from those who have been abused so that the unbelievers and liars are exposed. With such a sacrifice the Pope could promise measures and carry them out. With such an act of public sacrifice people would get off the band wagon, priests would be dealt with and calm restored to the church.
There is a more serious issue than the actual abuse. When people take money from the church they will suffer in the process and later, even if they have been hurt by the church. It will ultimately stand in the way of salvation and reconciliation. This is why The Pope must ask for sacrifice, he has no other choice. Asking for sacrifice will at least save some from the holocaust of their souls.
[SIGN] "And the people began to whisper to one another what the child had said. “He hasn’t got anything on.”
“There’s a little child saying he hasn’t got anything on.”
Till everyone was saying, “But he hasn’t got anything on.”
mindfully.org/Reform/Emperors-New-Clothes.htm[/SIGN]
God bless
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