NEWS: What Pope Francis Really Said about Trump Not Being Christian

[Church_Militant]

How about the “fruits” of Obama?

It’s a one size fits all so far as I can tell. They are all equally worthless IMO.

Edited slightly from a Facebook post from Catholic Mark Shea:

What the Frankenstein mob of the GOP base now stands for–and has done nothing but increasingly reward its frontrunner for–is a candidate who

-is pro torture
-mocked a disabled journalist
-insulted Jewish Republicans with “you people are good with money” stereotypes
-cheered on or at least encouraged thugs who beat up homeless people and black people by calling / excusing them “passionate”
-called women pigs and dogs and bimbos. Made crude comments about women bleeding and going to bathroom.
-called POWs losers while partying in prep school and getting multiple fortunate son draft deferments
-calls sleeping around while he dodged the draft his “personal Vietnam”
-took vengeance on an infant (his nephews) with cerebral palsy in a family arguement over daddy’s money. Got the babys health insurance canceled.
-is pro choice (until 10 seconds ago, but his pro-choice sister would be a great SCOTUS judge)
-is anti immigrant
-is anti refugee
-married 3 times
-brags about his wealth. No humility.
-pretty much claims he’s so good and honorable that he doesn’t need Gods forgiveness
-lead Christians to an exceeding high mountain and promises them all the kingdoms of the earth if they will fall down and worship him
-is endorsed by white supremacists
-hints at using nuclear weapons to fight terrorists
-Retweets (promotes) nazi sympathizer organization (who promoted a picture of Donald Trump in Nazi uniform gassing Bernie Sanders in a gas chamber)
-Says he can shoot people on streets of ny city and would not lose support
-is scared to be interviewed by a conservative news reporter
-Used eminent domain to trample people
-Supports the fur industry. Sons support trophy hunting.
-Supports the death penalty
-Gave tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of his own money to Clinton Foundation over the years
-Told racist mass murder fantasies about killing captured Muslims with bullets coated in pigs blood
-Families clothing lines mostly made in Mexico and China

• offers inappropriate lustful comment on how attractive his daughter is
• objectifies women
• builds casinos and strip clubs
• hypocritically complains that the Pope has no right to judge his Christianity, after claiming that Cruz wasn’t a Christian
• Throws out peaceful Muslim Americans from his rallies

For the GOP base, these things are features, not bugs. They are not things to overlook in favor of his good positions and actions. These are his good positions and actions. And the more horrible he shows himself to be, the more his numbers rise with that base.

That Frankenstein base is your creation. They are your fault. 100% entirely your fault. You made them, catechized them, and continue to feed them the lies that disposed them to fall down in adoration of this incredibly dangerous narcissist demagogue. And your utter refusal to take responsibility for that will destroy you if you don’t start repenting PDQ.
We are not punished for our sins. We are punished by our sins–by what we ourselves choose. Trump is the choice of the GOP. And if that choice is not repented it will deserve all the destructon he will bring you guys. I just pray he does not bring destruction on the rest of us or on the world. If the guy is ready to sue whenever his vanity is miffed, imagine what he can do with nuclear launch codes.

it is obvious someone lied to the Holy Father about donald trump.

there is no support or evidence for saying trump is ONLY about building walls. whoever told the Holy Father that is guilty of calumny and slander.

trump’s whole life has been about building things, making things work, making things better. have trump’s tactics always been Christ like? of course not, whose tactics have always been Christ like?

these vicious attacks on trump, expressed here by people who only know trump through what they have heard and read, are nothing more gossip, innuendo and lies.

If you say so Eddie…but what are you a close personal friend?

One of the things that tore it for me early on was his publicly televised allegation that “thousands and thousands of Muslims in New Jersey” danced and cheered as the twin towers fell, which never happened…and yet he has never recanted…I don’t think that anyone that disconnected from reality is a wise choice to lead out nation.

Also, did you miss the post above that actually documents the variety of stuff your man Trump has said and done? I mean it’s easy to check these things, but if true…(and I have checked and they are) then we have reason to pause. It’s all publicly verifiable information.

I really think we need a “None of the Above” option on all our ballots.

Besides this thread is not about Trump but about the media misrepresentation of what His Holiness said.

 

[jericho777]

Unchristian for wanting to build a wall? Walls are made to keep people out who don’t have a right to be there. Nations have a right to secure their borders. How is that unchristian or a bad thing?

Uncontrolled immigration is a national security issue. It will destabilize a nation and overcome the social welfare safety net. Mr. Trump is not anti immigration just illegal immigration. Why doesn’t the pope tell people they need to obey the law and not illegally enter the country?

The US is a nation of immigrants. I have relatives who obeyed the laws to come here and others who obeyed the laws and were not allowed to get in. Why should these people be any different?

The Vatican has a really big wall around it. Why was it built in the first place? TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT!

 

[guanophore]

Unchristian for wanting to build a wall? Walls are made to keep people out who don’t have a right to be there. Nations have a right to secure their borders. How is that unchristian or a bad thing?

Uncontrolled immigration is a national security issue. It will destabilize a nation and overcome the social welfare safety net. Mr. Trump is not anti immigration just illegal immigration. Why doesn’t the pope tell people they need to obey the law and not illegally enter the country?

The US is a nation of immigrants. I have relatives who obeyed the laws to come here and others who obeyed the laws and were not allowed to get in. Why should these people be any different?

The Vatican has a really big wall around it. Why was it built in the first place? TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT!

I don’t think you read the article. He said “if”.

 

[ahs]

Unchristian for wanting to build a wall?

No. The Pope didn’t say anything about walls being unchristian, or a person being unchristian for wanting to build walls. He said “walls without bridges”.

The Vatican has a really big wall around it. Why was it built in the first place? TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT!

The Vatican ALSO allows people in and out of that wall, the wall is open, AND the Vatican builds bridges wherever and whenever it can.

“Walls” and “walls without bridges” are not the same thing,

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

The word Pontiff means “bridge builder” FYI.

 

[jericho777]

First I’m not a Trump supporter as of yet. However if someone had taken the time to listen to what Mr. Trump had said they never would be casting aspersions about building walls without bridges.

You are right the Vatican controls who can enter their area. They don’t let unfettered immigration or hoards of refugees pour through the wall. They are exercising their sovereign right. They should let other sovereign nations control their borders too. As far as the wall around the Vatican it was meant to keep the Saracen (Muslim) invaders out. We live in a PC era where feeling good is more important the truth.

 

[pnewton]

You are right the Vatican controls who can enter their area.

Not really true. Pretty much anyone can walk over the “border” from off the sidewalk and onto the Piazza. Someone has been listening too much to ignorant pundits talking about Vatican “walls”.

The lame attempt by the media and those that leech off talk radio to turn this statement into some type of hypocrisy on the part of the Pope does work well on a guy that drives a fiat and commuted on a bus as Archbishop, or a city-state which is open to the greatest influx of diverse peoples in the world.

 

[Church_Militant]

Not really true. Pretty much anyone can walk over the “border” from off the sidewalk and onto the Piazza. Someone has been listening too much to ignorant pundits talking about Vatican “walls”.

The lame attempt by the media and those that leech off talk radio to turn this statement into some type of hypocrisy on the part of the Pope does work well on a guy that drives a fiat and commuted on a bus as Archbishop, or a city-state which is open to the greatest influx of diverse peoples in the world.

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First I’m not a Trump supporter as of yet. However if someone had taken the time to listen to what Mr. Trump had said they never would be casting aspersions about building walls without bridges.

C’mon man… he definitely said he wants to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. Not only is that communist era thinking (Ever hear of the Berlin wall?) but it’s implausible at best.

You are right the Vatican controls who can enter their area. They don’t let unfettered immigration or hoards of refugees pour through the wall. They are exercising their sovereign right. They should let other sovereign nations control their borders too. As far as the wall around the Vatican it was meant to keep the Saracen (Muslim) invaders out. We live in a PC era where feeling good is more important the truth.

PC has nothing to do with this. This has everything to do with certain secular media outlets and anti-Catholic propagandists blatantly misrepresenting what Pope Francis said and what he meant.
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People need to http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/bf-wakeupyelll.gif

 

[jericho777]

I’m sure people for the most part can freely enter Vatican City. However I seriously doubt if 100,000 thousand refugees showed up and decided to swarm the Vatican and call it home that it would not be an issue.

He’s opposed to illegal immigration not legal immigration. There’s a difference. So how does that make him not Christian or a wall builder? Do you support illegal immigration? I think it’s rhetoric to have Mexico pay to build the wall. However it underscores Mexico’s poor treatment of its citizens. They have no interest in the well being of their people. Rampant corruption in the government, police and military has eroded the public’s safety and security. Never mind the whole drug cartel situation. People are wholesale slaughtered on a daily basis and the government doesn’t seem to care. The Mexican government turns a blind eye to the people smuggling and drug running from their side of the border. Why doesn’t the Pope tell Mexico it needs to treat its citizens better rather than just blaming the United States?

I’m glad you mentioned the Berlin wall because it has a totally different purpose than the proposed wall on the Mexican border. The Berlin wall was meant to keep people in and enslaved by communism. The proposed wall on the Mexican border is to secure our border and keep people from illegally entering the country. Just like the wall around the Vatican was meant to keep Muslim invaders from entering and killing everyone.

 

[mikekle]

I’m sure people for the most part can freely enter Vatican City. However I seriously doubt if 100,000 thousand refugees showed up and decided to swarm the Vatican and call it home that it would not be an issue.

He’s opposed to illegal immigration not legal immigration. There’s a difference. So how does that make him not Christian or a wall builder? Do you support illegal immigration? I think it’s rhetoric to have Mexico pay to build the wall. However it underscores Mexico’s poor treatment of its citizens. They have no interest in the well being of their people. Rampant corruption in the government, police and military has eroded the public’s safety and security. Never mind the whole drug cartel situation. People are wholesale slaughtered on a daily basis and the government doesn’t seem to care. The Mexican government turns a blind eye to the people smuggling and drug running from their side of the border. Why doesn’t the Pope tell Mexico it needs to treat its citizens better rather than just blaming the United States?

I’m glad you mentioned the Berlin wall because it has a totally different purpose than the proposed wall on the Mexican border. The Berlin wall was meant to keep people in and enslaved by communism. The proposed wall on the Mexican border is to secure our border and keep people from illegally entering the country. Just like the wall around the Vatican was meant to keep Muslim invaders from entering and killing everyone.

Mexicos problems originate in the US though, Mexico does not have 1000s of people dying from drug use or destroying their lives, that all comes from the drug consumer…the US population.

Like any other invasion, one should ask why the US is not approaching this like any other invasion, they know where the cartels poppie fields are, there are hard to miss, yet no one is suggesting sending in our military, even though drugs, heroin especially is literally wreaking havoc in most states, the US invaded after 9-11 with under 3000 killed, drugs have killed many more than that, yet they still try to ‘just deal with the aftershock’, no one suggests eliminating the problem the source…GEE, I wonder why?

There will never be any kind of effective wall between the US and Mexico, there is just too many people/industries making too much money from both sides for it to grind to a halt, but who knows, maybe Trump get it done, maybe he will be more aggressive with these problems, every other president has not, I think there is a reason for that, which Trump will be informed of right away if he is elected.

 

[pnewton]

He’s opposed to illegal immigration not legal immigration. There’s a difference. So how does that make him not Christian or a wall builder?

I have not heard that part of the policy was to start allowing all the immigrants to enter legally.

The Great Wall of Trump is absurd. I cannot believe he is running a promise to bring the technology of the Middles Ages to America.

Mexicos problems originate in the US though, Mexico does not have 1000s of people dying from drug use or destroying their lives, that all comes from the drug consumer…the US population.

That is an interesting point. Mr. Trump blames Mexico for failing to control their crime. The United States has been fighting a failing war on drugs for decades without results. No wonder Vicente Fox was laughing at us.

 

[Church_Militant]

I’m sure people for the most part can freely enter Vatican City. However I seriously doubt if 100,000 thousand refugees showed up and decided to swarm the Vatican and call it home that it would not be an issue.

This is a specious and ludicrous statement since Vatican City is a dinky place and the wall you make such a big deal about has been there for centuries. Here take a look. And this is what it looks like.


Pretty much useless today but in its day it served its purpose.

He’s opposed to illegal immigration not legal immigration. There’s a difference.

Really? Not according to his polemics about restricting all Muslims from entering the country.

So how does that make him not Christian or a wall builder? Do you support illegal immigration? I think it’s rhetoric to have Mexico pay to build the wall.

Then he needs to stay in touch with reality and not make such rhetorical statements since its just another political promise that he won’t keep.

This man is either the worlds biggest liar of bat-dung crazy. Remember his rant about the “thousands and thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheering” on 9-11? He has never retracted that. Which was proved completely untrue! Anyone that disconnected from reality certainly has no place in the White House.

However it underscores Mexico’s poor treatment of its citizens. They have no interest in the well being of their people. Rampant corruption in the government, police and military has eroded the public’s safety and security. Never mind the whole drug cartel situation. People are wholesale slaughtered on a daily basis and the government doesn’t seem to care. The Mexican government turns a blind eye to the people smuggling and drug running from their side of the border.

So…as a Christian you feel it’s righteous to blame the Mexicans and their government for being unable (with vastly fewer resources) for not curtailing the lucrative drug trade which is fueled by the high demand here in the U.S.? That makes perfect sense, NOT! If we can’t stem the demand with all our resources, then how do we expect Mexico to do more on their end? That makes no sense at all.

Why doesn’t the Pope tell Mexico it needs to treat its citizens better rather than just blaming the United States?

Pope Francis blamed no one and it seems that you have not read the linked news report. Back up and do that and try again if you think you still have a defensible case.

I’m glad you mentioned the Berlin wall because it has a totally different purpose than the proposed wall on the Mexican border. The Berlin wall was meant to keep people in and enslaved by communism. The proposed wall on the Mexican border is to secure our border and keep people from illegally entering the country. Just like the wall around the Vatican was meant to keep Muslim invaders from entering and killing everyone.

You certainly side stepped the whole point, which is that the other wall didn’t work and neither will this one. No amount of polemics and rabble rousing will provide real and effective answers to these problems.

What Pope Francis was actually (and pretty obviously) saying is that people who sow disunity and division are not acting in a Christian way. As I pointed out before, by their fruits we will know them, and none of the options are very good.

 

[hu324b]

Church Militant

 

[jericho777]

So basically your point is it’s unchristian to secure our nations’ borders? What’s your solution then?

America has one of the most generous immigration policies of any nation. And speaking of generosity, America gives and has given more money for people in need than any other in the history of the world. Never mind as a nation has done more to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ around the globe. America is unmatched by any other nation in the history of the world bar none. I’m not going to feel anything other than thankfulness to God for the achievements He has allowed us to accomplish as a nation.

 

[hu324b]

How about helping Mexico become a better country so people will not want to cross the border and stay where they are.
The money is better spent on this than a wall - and that is the real answer to the problem.

 

[guanophore]

So basically your point is it’s unchristian to secure our nations’ borders? What’s your solution then?

This seems too black and white. The News did not report the exchange correctly and many reports were taken out of context. It is possible to secure borders with both walls AND bridges.

Maybe there is a lack of understanding about the plight of families who are separated across borders and undocumented. They don’t all need to be treated like criminals. A solution can be found that prioritizes human needs. One of those needs is security, but we also have an obligation to help refugees, encourage employment, and unify families.

America has one of the most generous immigration policies of any nation. And speaking of generosity, America gives and has given more money for people in need than any other in the history of the world. Never mind as a nation has done more to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ around the globe. America is unmatched by any other nation in the history of the world bar none. I’m not going to feel anything other than thankfulness to God for the achievements He has allowed us to accomplish as a nation.

Nor I, but are you prepared to abandon Lady Liberty and replace her with walls?

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

 

[jericho777]

How about helping Mexico become a better country so people will not want to cross the border and stay where they are.
The money is better spent on this than a wall - and that is the real answer to the problem.

We have. We’ve exported many, many good American jobs to them and we’re paying the price for it. There is rampant corruption at all levels of the government there. Why don’t they help themselves like we did? Stop blaming everyone else for their poorly run country.

 

[jericho777]

This seems too black and white. The News did not report the exchange correctly and many reports were taken out of context. It is possible to secure borders with both walls AND bridges.

Maybe there is a lack of understanding about the plight of families who are separated across borders and undocumented. They don’t all need to be treated like criminals. A solution can be found that prioritizes human needs. One of those needs is security, but we also have an obligation to help refugees, encourage employment, and unify families.

Nor I, but are you prepared to abandon Lady Liberty and replace her with walls?

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

Why don’t they respect us and abide by our laws. We have laws for a reason. A nation without borders ceases to exist. Mexico has a horrific immigration policy and treats illegals there like they are common criminals with no rights. Please don’t lecture us on how to treat people.

My relatives came here legally from poverty stricken places and obeyed the laws to get in. We have relatives who could not get in legally and went somewhere else. They didn’t come in anyway. Why should these people be any different?

Do you lock your doors to keep strangers out? Are you now somehow unchristian?

 

[pnewton]

So basically your point is it’s unchristian to secure our nations’ borders?

I do not know what you mean by “basically”, but I have not seen this anywhere.

We have. We’ve exported many, many good American jobs to them and we’re paying the price for it.

First, I have no idea what an “American” job is, much less how to export an intangible. Second, Mexico is also American. I know Trump may not always appeal to intelligent dialogue, but we should at least attempt it here. We should not be disingenuous about the positions of other, or engage in rhetoric that only add inaccuracy instead of clarification.

 

[jericho777]

I do not know what you mean by “basically”, but I have not seen this anywhere.

If you follow the logic of some here it means securing the borders make one unchristian. Do you hold that view? Please explain how it does or doesn’t.

First, I have no idea what an “American” job is, much less how to export an intangible. Second, Mexico is also American. I know Trump may not always appeal to intelligent dialogue, but we should at least attempt it here. We should not be disingenuous about the positions of other, or engage in rhetoric that only add inaccuracy instead of clarification.

We formed NAFTA which incentivized US companies to move American jobs to Mexico, thereby undermining the US’s manufacturing base by putting Americans out of work. Mexico does not have to abide by the same environmental and labor standards as US companies thereby endangering both people and the environment. Let’s be clear Mexico is in the Americas but it is not “American” as the term is understood.