Newspaper story: MUSLIMS CELEBRATE EID'L FITR SHUN TERROR

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pro, dodging the question is your specialty. I cannot compete with you in that. Muslims use your idea as justification for terrorism against us. You are learning fast. The fact remains that Catholicism opposes abortion. Islam does NOT oppose crucifying children, stoning people, rape, marrying 9 year olds, flying planes into buildings, killing converts, persecuting other religions, and killing people who draw cartoons they don’t like. I will pit America against your roster of Islamic countries anyday. Let’s talk about the human rights record of Iran. Read my thread on stoning. At least my religion condemns what your religion embraces as a virtue. Keep wiggling, but I won’t let you off the hook of confronting Islam as it is.
 
cestusdei said:
pro, dodging the question is your specialty. I cannot compete with you in that. Muslims use your idea as justification for terrorism against us. You are learning fast. The fact remains that Catholicism opposes abortion. Islam does NOT oppose crucifying children, stoning people, rape, marrying 9 year olds, flying planes into buildings, killing converts, persecuting other religions, and killing people who draw cartoons they don’t like. I will pit America against your roster of Islamic countries anyday. Let’s talk about the human rights record of Iran. Read my thread on stoning. At least my religion condemns what your religion embraces as a virtue. Keep wiggling, but I won’t let you off the hook of confronting Islam as it is.
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Okay, so let me get this straight:

You think Islam is bad because of terrorism.

But you don’t think America is evil for murdering millions of children every single year.

That’s not wiggling, that’s pointing out your fundamental hypocrisy. This is proof positive that you simply hate Muslims and will do anything you can to confirm that hatred. If this were about principle, you would have to be rabidly-Anti-American, since America supports the killing of babies to the point that government funds pay for it.
 
pro_universal said:
Okay, so let me get this straight:

You think Islam is bad because of terrorism.

But you don’t think America is evil for murdering millions of children every single year.
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Again, there’s the difference between them: those who commit abortion don’t do it in the name of Christianity, nor in the name of America. Now, I am not sure what’s America’s policy is regarding abortion (since I don’t live there), but it’s safe to say that those who do commit abortion aren’t doing it for the reasons I cited. It’s different with the terrorists: they do it in the name of Islam. They say that without shame. They admit it. That’s the difference.
 
Milliardo said:
Again, there’s the difference between them: those who commit abortion don’t do it in the name of Christianity, nor in the name of America.
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Those who support it do it in the name of American constitutional freedoms. Our high court sanctions it as a sacred right. Our government pays for some abortions. It also gives legal protection to clinics.

America guarantees people the right to kill children, and pays them to do it sometimes. That is a fact.
Now, I am not sure what’s America’s policy is regarding abortion (since I don’t live there), but it’s safe to say that those who do commit abortion aren’t doing it for the reasons I cited. It’s different with the terrorists: they do it in the name of Islam. They say that without shame. They admit it. That’s the difference.
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Okay, so because they do it in the name of freedom, they’re not evil?

But if you do something in the name of religion, then it’s evil?

What kind of sense does that make?
 
Let’s try again. America is a nation. It has no State religion. It’s constitution does not enshrine Catholicism. The government is secular.

Catholicism is a religion. It doesn’t approve of abortion. It works against abortion. It does not control America. If it did abortion would stop.

Islam is both a religion and a political government. Muslims admit to that. Remember, “Islam is a way of life that is all encompassing.” Islam as a religion glorifies violence. It sees no wrong in persecuting Christians, killing converts, crucifying children etc. In fact it exults in these things as signs of its virtue and superiority. Islamic nations accept sharia as the basis for their law. Islam is de facto or de iure the State religion. So it is possible to criticize Islamic nations they way you do America. Ironic. Islam does control Muslim nations and they remain violent. Again ironic.

Catholicism is a religion and disapproves of abortion. Islam is a religion and approves of horrifying things as godly.
 
cestusdei said:
Let’s try again. America is a nation. It has no State religion. It’s constitution does not enshrine Catholicism. The government is secular.
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So why aren’t you condemning the American government as satanic, barbaric, and evil? Your silence must prove that you tacitly sanction the murder of children, right? Just like the Muslims “silence” proves support for terror.

If you really cared about murdered children, you’d be out there trying to topple the US government to end its state-sanctioned child killing.

See the hypocrisy?
 
Looks like the Tehran University law degree strikes again.

How does American abortions prove that Muslims do not kill people during Ramadan?

There is no hypocrisy - one wrong does not make other wrongs right. We’re not talking about abortions here but the violence of Muslims during Ramadan.
 
pro_universal said:
Those who support it do it in the name of American constitutional freedoms. Our high court sanctions it as a sacred right. Our government pays for some abortions. It also gives legal protection to clinics.
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They might say they do so under their rights, but is this actually what Americans believe in? It doesn’t seem so, though one might be tempted to think it is. Note that one’s right doesn’t necessarily mean it’s for the good of the nation, nor indeed it is what the nation as a whole believes in. Nor, as I’ve pointed out, do these people explicitly say they’re doing it for their love of America, or of Christianity for that matter. Again, different from what terrorists say; they say it in the name of Islam. It is specific, it is indicated.
But if you do something in the name of religion, then it’s evil?
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Do those who commit abortion do it in the name of God? No. We know it’s evil, that’s why they do not do so. However, what makes terrorism–at least the ones we see these days–just as reprehensible, if not more so, is the fact that it’s done in the name of religion. It is more frightening, because such people have ingrained convictions that what they do is right. Those who commit abortion do not necessarily have such ingrained convictions; many, if not most, do so out of necessity. If not, out of lack of moral fortitude. Such things can be corrected more easily, once they’ve been properly informed and educated. Terrorists have been indoctrinated to believe that what they’re doing is right, and therefore such beliefs are imbedded in them so much that it will take a long time, if at all, before they can be convinced that what they’re doing is wrong. Islam must make that move to repudate, re-educate, and tell them in no uncertain terms that their acts do not represent Islam. Once Islam can do that, then many people will see Islam in a better light.
 
pro, actually it is you and your religion that want to overthrow the US government as evil. What you say is precisely the justification the terrorists use. Thank you for so clearly illustrating the Islamic mindset that leads to things like 911 and the crucifixion of enslaved Christian children. You are good Muslim.
 
cestusdei said:
pro, actually it is you and your religion that want to overthrow the US government as evil. What you say is precisely the justification the terrorists use. Thank you for so clearly illustrating the Islamic mindset that leads to things like 911 and the crucifixion of enslaved Christian children. You are good Muslim.
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What I’m asking is why you personally don’t condemn America as evil. After all, its population supports murdering kids (much of it, anyway…certainly there are a higher proportion of Americans who support abortion rights than there are Muslims who support terrorism.)

So why haven’t you called America evil?
 
Actually the majority of Americans oppose abortion. I join well over 100,000 who march every year to end it, I support candidates who are pro-life, and I would not give communion to a candidate who was pro-abortion. I, and millions of others, PEACEFULLY attempt to change the law.

I have yet to see such a thing occur in Islam. Instead the only time I see thousands of Muslims march is when they are advocating violence. In London they could only gather a few hundred to protest the 711 attacks. Indications are that the majority of Muslims would NOT turn in a terrorist even if they knew he was planning an attack. The majority of Muslims accept terrorism and persecution of Christians. They make it part of their nation policies whenever they can as you pointed out with Iran making stoning legal.

I am afraid that this line of argument for terrorism only undercuts your “Islam is peace” facade. Better for you to find another line of “reasoning”.
 
cestusdei said:
Actually the majority of Americans oppose abortion. I join well over 100,000 who march every year to end it, I support candidates who are pro-life, and I would not give communion to a candidate who was pro-abortion. I, and millions of others, PEACEFULLY attempt to change the law.

I have yet to see such a thing occur in Islam. Instead the only time I see thousands of Muslims march is when they are advocating violence. In London they could only gather a few hundred to protest the 711 attacks. Indications are that the majority of Muslims would NOT turn in a terrorist even if they knew he was planning an attack. The majority of Muslims accept terrorism and persecution of Christians. They make it part of their nation policies whenever they can as you pointed out with Iran making stoning legal.

I am afraid that this line of argument for terrorism only undercuts your “Islam is peace” facade. Better for you to find another line of “reasoning”.
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I see. You’re willing to make excuses for a place where half the population supports killing children, and where the government pays for killing children.

But you can’t say anything good about Muslims?

Yeah, that’s not bigotry 😦
 
Gee you’re right. I should become Muslim. Marry a few wives, beat them, maybe stone one or two to death…there’s always more where they came from. Perhaps I could purchase a few Christian slaves and crucify one or two as an example to the rest. If one of my kids converts to Catholicism I will just chop his head off. If one flies a plane into a building it would make me so proud. Yes, Islam is so much more civilized.

As I said, the difference is that my religion doesn’t allow for abortion and punishes those who do it. Yours does all of the above and cheers. That isn’t bigotry. That is the truth.
 
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cestusdei:
As I said, the difference is that my religion doesn’t allow for abortion and punishes those who do it. Yours does all of the above and cheers. That isn’t bigotry. That is the truth.
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But your government does.

So why aren’t you defaming you government as an evil institution?
 
My religion does not control my government. If it did we wouldn’t have abortion. So I am afraid I can only PEACEFULLY try to change the situation. The government actually doesn’t force abortions here. The Supreme Court ruled simply that they are legal. We can change that and will.

On the other hand Islam DOES control Muslim governments and their law. Sharia allows for stoning, flogging, beheading, slavery etc. Those things do exist in Islam and are considered GOOD. If you are a Muslim that is your law. Muslims don’t just consider these things permissable, but REQUIRED.

So in the US you can get an abortion unfortunately. But in Iran if someone leaves Islam they MUST be killed. Of course you as a Muslim mix religion and politics and see no difference. We do.
 
cestusdei said:
My religion does not control my government. If it did we wouldn’t have abortion. So I am afraid I can only PEACEFULLY try to change the situation. The government actually doesn’t force abortions here. The Supreme Court ruled simply that they are legal. We can change that and will.
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You’re missing the point: Why aren’t you condemning American society and government as evil?

After all, half the public wants to keep the murder going, and the government supports them. So where’s your condemnation of American society as a whole?
 
No, you are missing the point. We can’t enforce our religious view on others. We don’t have the option of sharia and stoning.

Islam does. And where sharia law is enforced the brutality is horrific. Yet Muslims don’t lobby for change. Why? Because stoning women is Allah’s will and a good thing. If you disagree then you may be stoned.
 
cestusdei said:
No, you are missing the point. We can’t enforce our religious view on others. We don’t have the option of sharia and stoning.

Islam does. And where sharia law is enforced the brutality is horrific. Yet Muslims don’t lobby for change. Why? Because stoning women is Allah’s will and a good thing. If you disagree then you may be stoned.
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You fail to condemn American society and American government.

This is proof positive that you support abortion. Otherwise, you’d be up in arms about how evil America is. Instead, you’re making excuses.

You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting abortion.
 
Fortunately I don’t nor does my religion. I can try to change it.

But yours does support stoning women to death. You can’t change it because Muhammed did it and that’s Islam.
 
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