Newton’s Corollary to Godwin’s Law: Athanasius and Arianism

[pnewton]

“As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.”

This little gem that has been around longer than the internet really has no mathematical basis, as the same could be said of Star Trek, or any other topic. However, it does point out the propensity for folks to demonize using the same example over and over. I have noticed a similar trend in dealing with topics involving disobedience to the Pope. I propose the following corollary:

“As a discussion on a topic in involving ultratraditionalism grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving St. Athanasius or Arianism approaches one.”

For the utilitarian purposes only I use the term ultra-traditionalism and will define it in this context only as: “adherence to Traditional Catholicism that results in disobedience to the Catholic Church under the authority of the Pontiff.”

The only reason I wished to make this Corollary is as an example of things that are posted with such a frequency as to become meaningless. Even though the example and the teachings of St. Athanasius might apply, the excess use of it obscures any proper uses of it. I have found that most of the time the example is used, it does nothing but leave the bigger question unanswered: is the situation at hand truly the same as St. Athanasius faced? The Church was much different in the fifth century than today. The level of communication between all people is astronomically more improve. The issues at hand were more germinal to Christianity. And, perhaps equally important, it was an exceptional case. Most Saints who dealt with Popes who were in error managed to do so without rebellion and disobedience. That is the rule, not this exceptional case of St. Athanasius.

I am wondering if anyone else who has been around a while has noticed this trend.

 

[Miles_Mariae]

It is not necessary to the comparison for St. Athanasius’ situation to be the rule. That it is a possible “exceptional case” is enough if the intent is to demonstrate the possibility of disobedience being acceptable.

Perhaps the circumstances are very much different.You mention the germinal nature of St. Athanasius’ struggle and the difference between the two time periods in the ability to communicate. Yet it is irrelevant whether the SSPX cause was “germinal” to the Faith as long as it was essential. And despite the advancements of communications technology, it was just as much a desperate situation for the SSPX in attempting to preserve the Extraordinary Form.

I give these counter-arguments not out of conviction in them, but only to show that the argument is very much unresolved. Until it is, the “excess use” of the comparison to St. Athanasius does not “obscure any proper uses” for it but only draws attention to it. It indeed “leaves the bigger question unanswered” but it also establishes the possibility of lawful disobedience and establishes a precedence against those who would claim victory by the point of disobedience alone.

My point in making this post is not to dispute your observation of this trend. Although I haven’t come here often, I can nonetheless imagine that people probably refer to St. Athanasius often in this kind of discussion. I will, however, challenge the conclusions you attempt to draw about the “proper use” of this comparison as well as the futility of the endeavor that you allege. Unless someone proves that the situation of SSPX was wholly unlike that of St. Athanasius, the comparison will always serve as a formidable defense.

In closing, I would like to extend your admirable effort and propose a few corollaries of my own.

As any discussion about “active participation” grows longer, the probability that “singing is praying twice” will be quoted improperly approaches 1.

As any discussion about communion in the hand grows longer, the probability that the quote about making a throne with the hands (attributed to St. Cyril) is used approaches 1.

As any discussion about the Ordinary Form grows longer, the probability that people will speculate about various Council participants being Freemasons approaches 1.

Evidently, tired old arguments are used frequently by those on either side of the line. This just shows the futility of constantly bickering about the subject.

 

[CapIV]

I once heard a sermon about this actually…

 

[Yours_Truly]

pnewton:

“As a discussion on a topic in involving ultratraditionalism grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving St. Athanasius or Arianism approaches one.”

Has it ever occured to you that the reason the comparrison is brought up is because it is a very similar parallel to what is taking place today? and as such provides useful lessons for us?

And it is not only “ultratraditionalists” who see the parallel. The following is a quote from Bishop Rudolph Graber, of Regensburg

**Bishop Graber: **“What happened over 1600 years ago [at the time of the Arian heresy] is repeating itself today, but with two or three differences: Alexandria [the patriarchal see of St. Athanasius] is today the whole universal Church, the stability of which is being shaken, and what was undertaken at that time by means of physical force and cruelty is now being transferred to a different level. Exile is replaced by banishment into silence of being ignored; killing, by assassination of character” (Athanasius and the Church of Our Time, p. 23).

Here we have a member of the hierarchy informing us that what took place during the Arian crisis is repeating itself today. Therefore, in order to know the proper way to react in our current crisis, we should look to those who persevered in that time.

Let’s take a look at some quotes from those who lived during that time and compare it with what we are seeing in our day.

We’ll begin with a quote from St. Basil

**St. Basil: **"Our afflictions are well known without my telling; the sound of them has gone forth over all Christendom. The dogmas of the Fathers are despised; apostolic traditions are set at nought; the discoveries of innovators hold sway in churches. Men have learned to be speculatists instead of theologians. The wisdom of the world has the place of honor, having dispossessed the glorying of the cross. The pastors are driven away. grievous wolves are brought in instead, and plunder the flock of Christ.–Epistulae

**St. Basil: ** "The danger is not confined to one Church… This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of Godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat is now openly proposed as a reward for impiety; so that he whose blasphemies are the more shocking, is more eligible for the oversight of the people. Priestly gravity has prished; there are none left to feed the Lord’s flock with knowledge; ambitious men are ever spending, in purposes of self-indulgence and bribery, possessions which they hold in trust for the poor. The accurate observation of the canons are no more; there is no restraint upon sin. Unbelievers laugh at what they see, and the weak are unsettled; faith is doubtful, ignorance is poured over their souls, because the adulterators of the word in wickedness imitate the truth. Religious people keep silence, but every blaspheming tongue is let loose. Sacred things are profaned; those of the laity who are sound in faith avoid the places of worship, as schools of impiety, and raise their hands in solitude with groans and tears to the Lord in heaven. --Epistulae 92 (ca. 372)

Notice what the laity did who were sound in faith: *“those of the laity who are sound in faith avoid the places of worship, as schools of impiety”. * Where did these laity go if they avoided the corrupt Churches?

**St. Basil: ** "Matters have come to this pass: the people have left their houses of prayer and assembled in the deserts, – a pitiable sight; women and children, old men, and men otherwise inform, wretchedly faring in the open air, amid most profuse rains and snow-storms and winds and frosts of winter; and again in summer under a scorching sun. **To this they submit because they will have no part of the wicked Arian leaven. --**Epistulae 242 (376)

There’s the precedent for us. Those who were sound in faith avoided the corrupt Churches because they would have no part of the wicked Arian leaven.

And why were they assembling in the desert? Because that is where St. Athanasius fled when he was banned from his diocese and excommunicated by the Pope.

Here’s something else interesting. Have you ever noticed how the heretics, such as Hans Kung, are left alone, while the Traditionalists - those who persevere in the observances of our fathers - are persecuted? Well, that is exactly the way it was during the Arian crisis…

**St. Basil: ** "Only one offense is now vigorously punished, an accurate observance of our fathers’ traditions. For this cause the pious are driven from their countries and transported into the deserts. The people are in lamentation… our feasts are turned into mourning; our houses of prayer are shut up; our altars are deprived of spiritual worship. … The ears of the simple are led astray, and have become accustomed to heretical profaneness. --Epistulae

So, for those Catholic today who are not sure how to respond during this crisis, take a lesson from those who lived during the Aran crisis. They did not stay in their corrupt Church hoping to change them. They realized that the only change would be to themselves (for the worse). Therefore, they fled their corrupt houses of prayer and heretical Priests and assembled in the the desert.

They even when to one who, by all appearances, was a schismatic, since he was operating outside of the normal structures of the Church. In the end, however , this “schismatic", was canonized and given the title Defender of the Faith.

In the next post, I will give the letter that he wrote to his flock to comfort them in their trial, since they were outside of the normal structures of the Church and being persecuted.

continue…

 

[Yours_Truly]

Here’s the letter that St. Athanasius wrote to his flock to comfort them, since they were outside of the normal structures of the Church and labeled “schismatics”.

Letter of St. Athanasius to His Flock

May God console you!.. What saddens you … is the fact that others [the Arian heretics] have occupied the churches by violence, while during this time you are on the outside. It is a fact that they have the premises – but you have the apostolic Faith. They can occupy our churches, but they are outside the true Faith. You remain outside the places of worship, but the faith dwells within you. Let us consider: what is more important, the place or the Faith? The true Faith, obviously.

Who has lost and who has won in the struggle – the one who keeps the buildings or the one who keeps the Faith? The true Faith, obviously. That therefore the ordinances which have been preserved in the churches from old time until now may not be lost in our days,… rouse yourselves, brethren,… seeing them now seized upon by aliens.

True, the premises are good when the Apostolic Faith is preached there; they are holy if everything takes place there in a holy way.

You are the ones who are happy; you who remain within the Church by your Faith, who hold firmly to the foundations of the Faith which has come down to you from Apostolic Tradition. And if an execrable jealousy has tried to shake it on a number of occasions, it has not succeeded. They are the ones who have broken away from it in the present crisis.

No one, ever, will prevail against your Faith, Beloved Brothers. And we believe that God will give us our churches back some day.

Thus, the more violently they try to occupy the places of worship, the more they separate themselves from the Church. They claim that they pepresent the Church; but in reality, they are the ones who are expelling themselves from it and going astray.

 Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a

handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus
Christ. --Apud Caillau and Guillou, Coll. Selecta Ss. Eccl. Patrum, vol. 32, pp. 411-412

Let us learn from those who lived in a similar crisis as us. They did not attend their corrupt Church and take part in the heresies and blasphemies. The fled to the desert because they would have no part of the wicked Arian leaven. Let us do likewise and find a Church where all is done for the glory of God. And let us not scruple if the Church is in a similar situation as that of St. Athanasius and his followers.

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Interestingly, if the Church of Christ is the handful faithful to Tradition, then the Council was correct not to equate the two but to say that one subsists in the other.

 

[Yours_Truly]

In another thread discussing St. Athanasius, a poster questioned whether or not St. Athanasius was actually excommunicated by Pope Liberius.

For years the question of authenticity of the letters of Pope Liberius have been debated. I thought I would provide the following quote from This Rock Magazine to explain what the most prominent opinion is on this subject today.

This Rock, November, 1995

Question: Was St. Athanasius, the “Defender of Orthodoxy,” wrongly excommunicated by a pope? A Traditionalist friend of mine says he was and that this gives credence to claims of the Society of St. Pius X that Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre was wrongly excommunicated as well.

Answer: For centuries scholars have debated the authenticity of the fours letters of Pope Liberius condemning Athanasius during the Arian persecution of the fourth century. The predominant opinion today is that they are genuine. …

This is from Karl Keating who is certainly no friend of the SSPX.

 

[Eucharisted]

“As an Athanasius thread grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Arian or Arianism approaches one.”

 

[Yours_Truly]

I located one of the two letters of Pope Liberius against St. Athanasius. This letter was written to the Arian Bishops of the East who had condemned the Saint for holding to the Catholic Faith, when they themselves departed from it. Here we see the Pope siding with the heretics against the Saint who he declares to be “a stranger to my Communion and to that of the Roman Church”.

Pope Liberius, Studens Paci:

“Working for the peace and concord of Churches, after having received the letter, of your charities on behalf of Julien, bishop of happy memory, in relation to Athanasius and others, I have sent according to the traditions of “a latere” to Alexandiria, the priests of the city of Rome, Lucius, Paulus and Helianus, to the aforesaid Athanasius in order that he should come to Rome so that what befalls the discipline of the Church may be now decided about him.

“Moreover, I have sent him a letter by the aforesaid priests in which letter it was made clear that if he did not come he would be stranger to the communion of the Roman Church. These priests having therefore returned announced that he did not want to come.

“So, from the letter which of your charity you wrote to us about the said Athanasius, by this letter which I write for your concord, that I may have peace myself with you all and with all the bishops of the Catholic Church, know that the said Athanasius is a stranger to my Communion and to that of the Roman Church and to the participation in letters and ecclesiastical matters.”