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josephdaniel29
Guest
On what grounds could a pope reject the election of a patriarch? Can a patriarch reject the election of a pope? Do the patriarchs have any say in papal elections?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
My previous post gives some scenarios about rejecting a Patriarch.
As it is, most Patriarchs or heads of the sui juris Churches are cardinals, thus they are part of the election of a Pope. H.B. Lubomyr is a Cardinal, as is his predecessor. I don’t think his successor though will be named cardinal until he passes away.
No one can reject a Pope’s election once he’s elected. But since they are being made cardinals, they are part of the election process, following the rules in place of course (like no one over 80 take part in the election).
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malphono
Guest
In the case of a Patriarch, it’s really a recognition of the election rather than an “acceptance” of it. In recognizing the election, the palium is sent as a symbol of communion.
Offhand, I cannot think of any case (recent or otherwise) where Rome refused to recognize a Patriarchal election. The closest I can think of is the case of the Maronites in 1932 where then-Secretary of State Pacelli did his best to interfere. Fortunately, when PP Pius XI became aware of what was going on, he sent the palium without delay. (I consider that the last legitimate Maronite Patriarchal election. We’ll see what happens in the upcoming one.)
Other than to say that the concept of “Major-Archbishop” is a Roman invention, how the election process works there I’m not sure.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
As malphono states it is a matter of recognition of the election and enthronment of a patriarch.
That is not the case with the UGCC. Regardless of what his Church and Synod call him, he is a Major Archbishop which does require the approval of the pope before the enthronment occurs.
Some of the patriarchs are cardinals, just as the retiring Major Archbishop is, so yes, they get a say in the election of the pope as long as they are under the age of 80.
Some patriarchs, notably the Melkite patriarch, turn down the offer to be a cardinal.
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Hesychios
Guest
That seems to imply that if the Pope refused to recognize the new Patriarch, he would still be the defacto patriarch fulfilling his responsibilities, just not recognized from Rome.
Is that how you would see it?
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josephdaniel29
Guest
Another question. Does the pope commemorate the primates of the other local Catholic Churches during liturgies?
Also, isn’t a palium the Latin version of an omophorion? Do eastern bishops wear both?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I heard someone quote one of the cardinal patriarchs saying he’ll wear his cardinal vestments only when he’s in Rome fulfilling the function of a cardinal, perhaps during a conclave. But otherwise would wear the vestments of an Eastern patriarch.
I don’t think there’s a commemoration for Bishops from all Churches during liturgies. Perhaps the Pope may just say “all Bishops” which is an include-all term. I haven’t really paid attention. The Pope after all would on most occassions say the Roman Mass and thus the commemorations will be for the Roman Church. I wonder how Pope John Paul II did his Divine Liturgy? I’ve only seen photos of it.
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malphono
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Theoretically, yes, I suppose so. But, since I don’t recall a case where it actually happened, it’s nothing more than theoretical.
One should keep in mind that the recognition is neither something new, nor something of Rome’s invention. How else to establish public recognition of the election and communion?
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ConstantineTG
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Out of curiosity, how does this work for the Orthodox? Would the Ecumenical Patriarch just accept any elected Patriarch?
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malphono
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AFAIK, not in general, but perhaps so if the Roman Pontiff is celebrating according to the rite of a non-Western Church. The most recent case I can think of is the late Pontiff celebrating according to the UGCC. I seem to recall that Alexander Roman has some familiarity that, so I’ll leave the question for him.
Yes, but in the case of a Patriarchal election, the palium is symbolic of communion. It is sent from Rome to the Patriarchs, not to all bishops. I could be wrong, but I don’t believe it’s actually worn even by the Patriarchs.
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josephdaniel29
Guest
When a primate is elected the other autocephalous Churches are notified and his name is added to their diptychs.
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Hesychios
Guest
I don’t recall either.
Is it the case then that a newly elected patriarch notifies all the other patriarchs in the communion and asks for recognition?
I would also like to know if Popes upon their election were also asking for recognition by the fellow patriarchs, if anyone has that information.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I don’t believe there is a need for that. Since the Pope is the head of the visible Church and all are united through him, he doesn’t need formal recognition from the patriarchs. And given that a number of patriarchs are cardinals, they would have had their hand in electing him. So why the need to recognize further? We may get to a point that all patriarchs are automatic voting members of the conclave. I believe it was discussed this past year.
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Amadeus
Guest
While it is true that the election of a Major Archbishop needs the confirmation by the Pope for it to be valid, the election of a Patriarch does not nor does it need papal recognition.
The Synod of Bishops of a patriarchal Church is endowed with competence to elect and to enthrone her Patriarch without further ado. He can immediately exercise his powers and authority, except (1) the convocation of the Synod of Bishops and (2) the ordination of Bishops while awaiting answer to his request for ecclesial communion with Pope.
Simultaneously or at a reasonable time after the enthronement, a Synodal letter must be sent to Rome and to all Eastern Catholic Churches informing the election and enthronement of the Patriarch. Then, the “new patriarch must as soon as possible request ecclesiastical communion from the Roman Pontiff by means of a letter signed in his own hand.” (Cf. Canon 76, CCEO).
Thus, the election and enthronement of the Patriarch stays no matter what. However, if the new Patriarch does not send his request for ecclesiastical communion with the Pope, or if the Pope does not grant ecclesiastical communion, the Patriarchal Church remains not in communion with Rome.
The Synod of Bishops of a patriarchal Church is endowed with competence to elect and to enthrone her Patriarch without further ado. He can immediately exercise his powers and authority, except (1) the convocation of the Synod of Bishops and (2) the ordination of Bishops while awaiting answer to his request for ecclesial communion with Pope.
Simultaneously or at a reasonable time after the enthronement, a Synodal letter must be sent to Rome and to all Eastern Catholic Churches informing the election and enthronement of the Patriarch. Then, the “new patriarch must as soon as possible request ecclesiastical communion from the Roman Pontiff by means of a letter signed in his own hand.” (Cf. Canon 76, CCEO).
Thus, the election and enthronement of the Patriarch stays no matter what. However, if the new Patriarch does not send his request for ecclesiastical communion with the Pope, or if the Pope does not grant ecclesiastical communion, the Patriarchal Church remains not in communion with Rome.
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ConstantineTG
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The Patriarch is the source of communion with the Pope, right? So is a Church not in communion if the patriarchal see is vacant?
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Amadeus
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No, a vacancy per se does not make a *sui juris *Church out of communion.
Remember that the previous Patriarch (who died or resigned) requested ecclesiastical communion after he was elected and enthroned and that “state of communion” remains until (1) such a reasonable time that the new Patriarch fails or refuses to request ecclesiastical communion or (2) the Pope does not grant ecclesiastical communion to the new Patriarch.
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ConstantineTG
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Awesome! Thanks!
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Hesychios
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ciero
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It certainly was the case in times past…it is no longer the case unfortunately.
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Vico
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All Catholic bishops are in communion with the bishop of Rome.
CCEO Canon 42
Just as, by the Lord’s decision, Saint Peter and the other Apostles constitute one college, so in a similar way the Roman Pontiff, successor of Peter, and the bishops, successors of the Apostles, are joined together.
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